New Jersey Bans Death Penalty

[Facetious]

FWIW - Death Penalty Stat Table What does it mean ? nothing really.

Bureau of Justice Statistics - Capital Punishment
Lethal Injection Consists Of:

* Sodium Thiopental (lethal dose - sedates person)
* Pancuronium Bromide (muscle relaxant-collapses diaphragm and lungs)
* Potassium Chloride (stops heart beat)
* The offender is usually pronounced dead approximately 7 minutes after the lethal injection begins.

Cost per execution for drugs used : $86.08
Average Time on Death Row prior to Execution:

10.26 years

___________________________________________________________________________________________

BTW the SCOTUS will be deciding if lethal injection is cruel and unusual punishment in the coming months.

Hell, we have perfectly innocent citizens, perhaps a little drunk out on the streets getting shocked (murdered) by overzealous law enf officers and the SCOTUS will be deciding how / if lethal inj. is cruel and unusual ? !! WTF ?

 

[negator]

There's a big difference between revenge and justice.

If you want to argue that it's revenge to use the death penalty, then it's revenge to put someone in jail especially for life.

There is one: perspective.

It is, if it is unnecessary. If someone is a danger to others, however, it is about protection. If, however, death is worse than life in prison (which seems to be the consensus here) and life in prison is sufficient to provide that protection (which I would argue it is), then death penalty will be based purely on emotion. I would be less inclined to disagree with the general idea if I knew mistakes would never be made and that no one else would be involved. That is rarely the case, however. As a general rule, mistakes are made and innocent people will be executed, and even the guilty ones have families.

i think incarceration is more about punishment than either revenge or protection. in my mind, this invalidates capital punishment; a typical death-row inmate doesn't value life much, so taking theirs is less of a penalty. does that make sense?

 

[Friday on my mind]

So have lots of guilty people.

Ok thats twice now you have declined to actually answer my question,I get it the innocents don't concern you.Lets bump it again and see if somebody else will maybe try.As I said I would think innocents being put on death row would concern any decent person and am anxiously awaiting how death penalty advocates would deal with that issue.

You know what I think lets just drop the racial aspect although I don't think the pervasive racism in the system is really that unknown but really lets just forget that whole part of it and focus on this maybe .
LOTS OF INNONCENT PEOPLE HAVE BEEN PUT ON DEATH ROW.
Whatever color they are I want someone who supports the death penalty to explain to me how they think it is that so many who were not only proven to be innocent beyond a reasonable doubt but definately did not commit the murder ever get convicted and sentenced to death.I mean since they were innocent where did the so-called evidence come from?Corrupt police/justice system is the answer I guess so justify that to me please.As I pointed out to Chef his state called a moritorium on using it for just that reason.The system is way to flawed to allow it to take lives.And again here is the link to the "Innocence Project".
http://www.innocenceproject.org/

 

[negator]

You know what I think lets just drop the racial aspect although I don't think the pervasive racism in the system is really that unknown but really lets just forget that whole part of it and focus on this maybe .
LOTS OF INNONCENT PEOPLE HAVE BEEN PUT ON DEATH ROW.
Whatever color they are I want someone who supports the death penalty to explain to me how they think it is that so many who were not only proven to be innocent beyond a reasonable doubt but definately did not commit the murder ever get convicted and sentenced to death.I mean since they were innocent where did the so-called evidence come from?Corrupt police/justice system is the answer I guess so justify that to me please.As I pointed out to Chef his state called a moritorium on using it for just that reason.The system is way to flawed to allow it to take lives.And again here is the link to the "Innocence Project".
http://www.innocenceproject.org/

i'll take a stab at it. i'm against capital punishment, as i've explained. but here is a possible argument for:

i am a statist. i believe the benevolent state exists to bring order to our lives and protect and nurture us from cradle to grave. capital punishment exists as a deterrent to the most heinous of crimes: premeditated murder, treason, and exceptional others. if an innocent person is put to death because of false testimony, or for any reason, it is a tragedy, but still serves as a deterrent to crime.

 

[McRocket]

^ but there are people currently on death row that surely knew that what they did carried the death penalty if they were caught. But I strongly believe that they either a) thought they would not be caught or b) were so full of rage or lust for violence that they did not care.

'Normal' people seem to often think that people do crimes for practical reasons. But normal people have little to no first hand knowledge of what it means to be in situations such as these criminals find/found/put themselves into.
These people have been pushed to extremes by rage, guilt, greed, jealousy and/or simple mental dysfunction.

When I was an addict, I saw seemingly intelligent people do the DUMBEST of things simply to get high for 30 more minutes. I mean the dumbest of things. Things that would cost them greatly down the road.
When dysfunctional people get into bad situations, they often will do ANYTHING (and I do mean ANYTHING) to get out of them. And when you ask them later why they did it they usually say a) they didn't think they would get caught or b) they just weren't thinking.

IMO, you CANNOT scare hardened criminals into stopping (and most people on death row in the U.S. - I assume - are/were hardened criminals). You have to either physically stop them. Or remove the reason they are doing it.
And when it comes to psychopaths, well obviously scaring them will not stop them as they are not sane.

Capital punishment is, in my strong opinion, NOT a deterrent for criminals.

 

[ChefChiTown]

Lets bump it again and see if somebody else will maybe try.As I said I would think innocents being put on death row would concern any decent person and am anxiously awaiting how death penalty advocates would deal with that issue.

Unfortunately, our justice system is the U.S. isn't perfect, but nothing is. Yes, innocent people will be sentenced to Death Row, as unfortunate technicalities of the law can be found anywhere. But why should a few unfortunate incidents mean that the death penalty should never be used? Honestly, where should the line be drawn in our justice system just so no single innocent person will ever be hurt? Wishing and/or hoping for perfection from our legal system is just a waste of time because it's never going to happen.

It sucks that a few innocent people will suffer, it really does. But, a few innocent lives, IMO, don't outweigh the much, much greater number of lives of the guilty murderers and rapists who deserve a punishment as severe as death.

 

[pathfinder]

LOTS OF INNONCENT PEOPLE HAVE BEEN PUT ON DEATH ROW.

So have lots of guilty people.

Lawyers should be held more accountable... like, if an innocent person gets put to death... well, sorry, you gotsta go too... since you obviously suck at lawyering.

How often are they proven innocent after and how often do people just say they were because the person never admitted to their guilt?

 

[Legzman]

I think we should have true eye for an eye mentality! Whatever crime one commits against another persons body, be it rape, torture, murder...etc...the punishment is exactly that! What you did to your victim, we're gonna do to you! Exactly the same way you did, if you killed someone by fire, we kill you by fire. If you raped someone, we stick a baseball bat up your ass till your dead! You get the picture?

 

[Imagine]

I'm curious, where do you people dig up these facts about who deserves to die?

 

[Vanilla Bear]

I think we should have true eye for an eye mentality! Whatever crime one commits against another persons body, be it rape, torture, murder...etc...the punishment is exactly that! What you did to your victim, we're gonna do to you! Exactly the same way you did, if you killed someone by fire, we kill you by fire. If you raped someone, we stick a baseball bat up your ass till your dead! You get the picture?

Finally! :thumbsup:

oh well Im not the only one.

 

[Legzman]

I'm curious, where do you people dig up these facts about who deserves to die?

If your found guilty with overwhelming evidence, then why the fuck not? Or better yet a confession. Makes no difference if you killed on person or hundreds. Point is you still took a life!

What would you suggest instead? Let them sit in jail for a couple years so they get out on appeal or fuckin probation? Then they are on the streets free to do it again!

 

[Imagine]

If your found guilty with overwhelming evidence, then why the fuck not? Or better yet a confession. Makes no difference if you killed on person or hundreds. Point is you still took a life!

So? You still haven't mentioned the source from which you were informed about what makes someone deserve death.

What would you suggest instead? Let them sit in jail for a couple years so they get out on appeal or fuckin probation? Then they are on the streets free to do it again!

Nice straw man. I could answer seriously, but instead I'll use the same tactics: So you like to kill people and puppies?!

 

[ChefChiTown]

So? You still haven't mentioned the source from which you were informed about what makes someone deserve death.

There are no facts that say "this person should die" or "this person should live". It's all personal opinion.

For instance, I think that people who commit senseless violent murders should all face the death penalty. Others, don't.

 

[Imagine]

There are no facts that say "this person should die" or "this person should live". It's all personal opinion.

For instance, I think that people who commit senseless violent murders should all face the death penalty. Others, don't.

Bingo. That doesn't make you stop and think about this for a bit?

 

[ChefChiTown]

Bingo. That doesn't make you stop and think about this for a bit?

Think about what? How I agree with the death penalty and others don't? That's life.

 

[Imagine]

I rather meant how it is based entirely on subjective opinion. It has no practical reason.

 

[ChefChiTown]

I rather meant how it is based entirely on subjective opinion. It has no practical reason.

Our whole entire legal system is based on opinion. Laws were created by a bunch of people who stated and discussed their opinions on certain matters and then logically came up with a solution.

 

[Imagine]

No, the legal system was (or was supposed to be) based on the things that was necessary for making a society work. That theft or murder is undesirable is not opinion, it is a fact. The only subjective part is the punishment. Death penalty was necessary at one point when there was no valid alternative, but we have that now. From an objective point of view, there is (essentially) no difference between life in prison or death penalty. The only reason to have death penalty is a) tradition, and b) emotion. The cost, apart from money obviously, is that we risk making irreversible mistakes. The gain? Satisfaction from seeing someone killed.

 

[ChefChiTown]

No, the legal system was (or was supposed to be) based on the things that was necessary for making a society work. That theft or murder is undesirable is not opinion, it is a fact. The only subjective part is the punishment. Death penalty was necessary at one point when there was no valid alternative, but we have that now. From an objective point of view, there is (essentially) no difference between life in prison or death penalty. The only reason to have death penalty is a) tradition, and b) emotion. The cost, apart from money obviously, is that we risk making irreversible mistakes. The gain? Satisfaction from seeing someone killed.

The gain from the death penalty, IMO, is that these sick criminals who are capable and more than willing to commit heinous crimes against innocent human beings will never, ever have the chance to repeat their disgusting acts of violence.

Murderers (with a few situational exceptions) have absolutely no regard for the lives of others, so why should I give a fuck about theirs?

 

[Imagine]

The gain from the death penalty, IMO, is that these sick criminals who are capable and more than willing to commit heinous crimes against innocent human beings will never, ever have the chance to repeat their disgusting acts of violence.

Which is different from locking them up and throwing away they key... how? The effect is the same; they won't get another chance. Yes, there is a minimal risk that they might escape. I would however say it is considerably smaller than the risk of an innocent person ending up on death row. In the end, I'd consider that risk worth it, for the same reason why I believe in the whole "innocent until proven guilty" idea. I don't suppose you're against that?

Murderers (with a few situational exceptions) have absolutely no regard for the lives of others, so why should I give a fuck about theirs?

My mistake, I just thought it might feel good to know that you're different from them. You just pretty much admitted that you have no regard for another persons life. Funny, that's exactly what you said about the murderer...
Or is this where you go "he started it!"?