New Jersey Bans Death Penalty

[calpoon]

this has been said before, and it's always a fun bloodbath, just like guns, but I'll keep it short and say what I haven't said before.

I often hear the argument: Why Should I have to pay to keep a murderer alive (as opposed to executed)?

the rational is that you aren't paying for the privalage of this persons livlihood, you are paying for the privalage of your own and societies to keep that murderer out of the general populace. Even if the person is executed, you still have to pay for that.

Why should you pay? shit, why should you have to pay for anything? There's a ton of stuff that I have to pay for that I don't want to, in that light, this may not be the very worst thing that I'm taxed, at least we get something out of it.

 

[Dean Wormer]

Friday[/URL][/B] on my mi, post: 1826332, member: 44516"]Jail for life ,now please address my question won't you?

Cest la vie.

 

[Friday on my mind]

Cest la vie.

Shucks I guess it will have to be somebody else that tries to explain that one to me.

 

[dick van cock]

Cest la vie.

Tu't laisses aller"

Following Tommy Hobbes: I did not delegate my right to take "an eye for an eye" to the Leviathan...

... neither has an overwhelming majority of Europeans... but evidently, Americans subscribe to the Sharia...

 

[geraldhp42]

Does anyone else besides Caitlain and I want to comment on serial killers, especially those who readily admit that would probably kill again if given the chance?

On the statistics of the death penalty vs crime rates tangent, if anything areas with higher crimes rate have the death penalty. There really isn't strong correlation one way or another, but it tends to lean towards positive correlation.

Also, the racism is circumstantial. There are a few logical leaps that have been taken that are not necessarily valid.

1. Not everyone who is for the death penalty is aware of or considers the racial breakdown of those on death row.
2. Stating the racial ratios almost implies that if the ratio was more representative of the racial breakdown of the United States, a problem would not exist.
3. If there is a racial bias in the justice system, then the problem is not the death penalty but in steps leading up the death penalty: why are more blacks tried and convicted? Whatever the cause, it's a separate discussion from the death penalty itself.

 

[dick van cock]

Does anyone else besides Caitlain and I want to comment on serial killers, especially those who readily admit that would probably kill again if given the chance?

The £125,000 question:

Would you:

a) execute him

b) lock him away for good and throw away the key

c) lock him away for 15 years before reconsidering the verdict

d) lock him away for 15 years, because that's enough


:?????:


If you'd answer anything but b), you'll have to explain yourself here...

 

[Vanilla Bear]

A!

but for £1.000.000 I say B!

 

[Imagine]

Does anyone else besides Caitlain and I want to comment on serial killers, especially those who readily admit that would probably kill again if given the chance?

Last time I checked, the escape rate from max security prisons were pretty low. Low enough, I dare say, to qualify as not giving them a chance. And hey, it's still cheaper than the death penalty and with no risk of making a permanent mistake.

 

[negator]

some more hyperlinking:
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1695334,00.html

this is one of those emotional issues that polarizes us. everyone has made some very valid points here. myself, i try to avoid the emotional issues and just decry the injustice of allowing the state to murder someone. i can definitely sympathize with victims' families wanting revenge. statistics. . .meh, they can (and are) used by both sides in any given argument. the economics of death row? as it was said earlier, the wasted money is part of a bigger problem, just like the racial inequality. so here's the way i make it right in my mind:
"the state shouldn't have the right to murder anyone."

 

[Vanilla Bear]

If a family member kills a murderer of their loved one in revenge, I think the jury will take that into account in their sentencing.

the revenge was to kill the murderers family and not himself.
thats how the "famiglia" does that!
:thumbsup:

 

[geraldhp42]

Last time I checked, the escape rate from max security prisons were pretty low. Low enough, I dare say, to qualify as not giving them a chance. And hey, it's still cheaper than the death penalty and with no risk of making a permanent mistake.

Ted Bundy.

Tu't laisses aller"

Following Tommy Hobbes: I did not delegate my right to take "an eye for an eye" to the Leviathan...

... neither has an overwhelming majority of Europeans... but evidently, Americans subscribe to the Sharia...

Yet, you seem willing to celebrate when someone does die.

 

[Imagine]

So, Ted Bundy managed to escape from the courthouse, and then from jail. Congratulations, you have proven nothing whatsoever. You see, whether he would be executed or not, he'd still be given those opportunities (unless you're actually suggesting executing him without a trial). Now, had he escaped from a proper max security prison...

 

[dick van cock]

Yet, you seem willing to celebrate when someone does die.

... of natural causes...

Besides: Filbinger was the embodiment of German post-war amnesia... Vor dem Ruhestand... {or afterwards???}

 

[ChefChiTown]

Do you seriously not see that you just disproved your own argument? There are more than half as many blacks as whites killed and almost as many on death row. Do you not see what you just said?

I see what I said and I don't see any place where I "disproved my own argument".

I was responding to DVC saying...

If you're wealthy and white, your chances of not being executed are by far bigger than when you are black and poor.

In other words, DVC said that if you're black than you are more likely to be executed.

My argument was that this wasn't true, which is supported by these statistics (which were obtained from here)...

Number of executions since 1976:
White - 606
Black - 356

Number of people on death row (as of January 1, 2007):
White - 1,518
Black - 1,387

I'm not a certified mathematician, but I'm pretty sure that 606 is a larger number than 356 and that 1,518 is a larger number than 1,387.

The amount of white people killed on Death Row outnumbers the amount of black people killed on Death Row...which doesn't contradict my argument at all.

:dunno:

 

[Imagine]

I'm not a certified mathematician, but I'm pretty sure that 606 is a larger number than 356 and that 1,518 is a larger number than 1,387.

The amount of white people killed on Death Row outnumbers the amount of black people killed on Death Row...which doesn't contradict my argument at all.

Basic arithmetics doesn't quite work for the argument, however. You'll need to examine the sample from which these numbers were taken if you want a proper statistical analysis. If, for example, 1% of the people in prison are black, then 1/3rd black on death row is huge even if there are less black people than white there, because the expected would be 1/100th. Then of course, there's the question if the entire legal system is biased.

 

[ChefChiTown]

Basic arithmetics doesn't quite work for the argument, however. You'll need to examine the sample from which these numbers were taken if you want a proper statistical analysis. If, for example, 1% of the people in prison are black, then 1/3rd black on death row is huge even if there are less black people than white there, because the expected would be 1/100th. Then of course, there's the question if the entire legal system is biased.

Ok, I will. While I'm at it, I'll just go ahead and boil it down as far as it can go.

People aren't put on Death Row for having a certain skin color...they're put there because of the crime(s) they committed.

Just because black people make up a smaller percentage of our population (as opposed to white people), it doesn't mean that black people will automatically commit a smaller number of violent crimes that warrant the death penalty.

 

[dick van cock]

as far as it can go.

People aren't put on Death Row for having a certain skin color...they're put there because of the crime(s) they committed..

White guy who committed a murder: "I can afford an average lawyer; 5 to 10!"

Black guy who committed a murder: "Fuck! I am poor! My shitty lawyer is disinterested... Hmmm. Capital punishment..."

 

[KungFuDude]

Christ, who let the fucking liberals out?

 

[Imagine]

People aren't put on Death Row for having a certain skin color...they're put there because of the crime(s) they committed.

Ideally, yes. There are claims otherwise though, which I believe was the issue at hand here.

Just because black people make up a smaller percentage of our population (as opposed to white people), it doesn't mean that black people will automatically commit a smaller number of violent crimes that warrant the death penalty.

Not automatically, but during equal conditions and a large sample or long time frame, it will almost certainly be that way. I believe the ratio at the moment is not representative of the general population, which can be due to a number of factors. Perhaps black people are just genetically more inclined to commit crimes, or, more likely, their living conditions make it more probable.
In any case, this is irrelevant to the argument as well. We want to know the probability of a black person ending up on death row as compared to a white person. I suppose the best way would be to study a number of similar cases of severe crimes and determine whether black people are overrepresented on death row compared to the number of crimes fulfilling the necessary conditions they commit. If there is no bias, the numbers should correlate.

 

[YMIHERE]

Christ, who let the fucking liberals out?

A conservative is a liberal who's been mugged, a liberal is a conservative who's been arrested. - Thomas Wolfe