Michael Moore
- Thread starter Goblin
- Start date
RANGER... Another reason for me to like you more than Bush and Co... You actually paid for your education! Hat's off!
We have much in common. I worked my way through college and both of us were lucky enough to live in a time when you could relatively easily borrow some money to get an education. Sounds like you've been one of the lucky ones that contemporary mega-capitalism has worked out for. Again, my hat's off.
But have you ever considered you're in the minority, even amongst the educated elite (which you and I are) if you're actually doing what you were trained to do? College educated folks are having a harder time finding a job in this economy than at any point in my 44 years. http://www.manews.org/0504jobless.html and http://www.epinet.org/content.cfm/issuebriefs_ib198
Unfortunately, funding for schooling continues to plummett, too, while the cost of tuition goes through the roof. The way many of us see it, either we want to give today's students the same kind of advantages we had, and that previous generations fought to give, or we can just leave folks behind.
I choose the former. The current administration does not. They prefer spending our taxes on destroying the infrastructure of one of the more literate countries on the planet (before we helped Saddam rise to power). The Bush education plan? Talk big in speeches, then just don't fund the programs.
RE: KERRY VS EDWARDS EX ENEMIES, NOW HUGGIES...
Agreed that it's going to be pretty easy to show them at each others' throats when they were fighting for the same job. That's just one of the reasons why that ticket definitely isn't my first choice.
But it's the only ticket that I see as having a shot of removing Bush and co, and as he says,"The enemy of my enemy is my friend." Really a pessimistic view, but Machiavellian, pragmatic, and the only electable port being offered in this storm.
(Agreed, STARMAN, we are a democracy and should take responsibility for electing officials that aren't part of the industrial elite. But what do we have to vote for now? Two guys who belong to the same rich boy secret organization -- Yale's Skull and Bones -- and refuse to speak in public about it. When you combine the total support that all of the "regular citizen but supposedly unelectable" candidates ala Al Sharpton, Dennis Kusinich, libertarians, and the like, we could beat either Kerry/Edwards or Bush/Cheney. But the support is kept fragmented by a political system that favors the monied/connected members of entrenched parties, and doesn't work nearly hard enough to keep the mainstream electorate energized. Where's Andrew Jackson or Teddy Roosevelt when we need him? )
RE: RELIGIOUS WAR:
When a wide eye'd Muslim extremist comes after me with a sword while I'm buying Viagra at my local K-Mart, I'll be concerned with the possiblity that their religious convictions might impact my life.
Until that point, I'll contend this war -- like every other war ever fought -- is about "you have power or stuff, and I want it." We (the west) have been trying to impose our control over the entire region's resources for centuries (see www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/iz.html - copy and paste it into your browser. I'd rather not have the folks at the CIA showing hits coming from Freeones, but we all owe it to ourselves and the rest of the planet to be familiar with their site.)
911 was a tragic, overly aggressive, totally inappropriate statement of self determination, not religious expansionism. And oh yeah, it had nothing to do with Iraq. But I digress...
If the terrorists are so bent on waging a religion based war, why didn't they attack the nation's largest Christian churches on 911? One hell of a lot easier to pull off.
Instead, what did they attack? The single most glowing symbol of neocon world economic domination -- the World Trade Center (see the name) -- and the Pentagon, which is the symbol of our unchecked military buildup and intrusive military presence in countries around the world, with airplanes that are the symbol of technologically advanced societies.
If you were bent on making sure your religion dominated the planet, wouldn't you attack religious centers, where you might kill large numbers of Christians?... The same religion, let's remember, who used god as an excuse to invade the region and kill untold thousands of folks who refused to be "saved" a few centuries back. (FYI: I'm no Christianity hater. I was raised Methodist and am proud of it. I just remember that my religion-vs-your religion has been used by evil men to justify killing since the dawn of war. I want no part of that, and neither does the average Muslim.)
If there's one thing that Michael Moore's work has taught me -- escpecially Columine and F911 -- it's that you have to look awfully hard at the arguments of a person who uses fear to get you to spend money/support a cause. Whether it's insurance companies, drug companies, car companies, or now our government, we're constantly bombarded with it. If you don't buy the right clothes people won't like you. If you don't take this pill you might go bald and won't get that promotion. If you don't buy a gun or an SUV you might die. If you don't have Onstar you'll never find your keys. If you don't have some bullshit bracelett on grandma's wrist she's going to fall down the stairs and nobody will ever hear from her again.
And Muslims are going to invade these shores and cut our heads off.
Fear appeals in general are lame, and that's one of the reasons why when I spew gloom and doom about Bush and Co, I take the time to either cite sources or try to present at least a moderately developed argument. (Which, unfortunately, takes up space, and sorry to all for that.)
And even though we may be on opposite sides of the fense on some issues, RANGER, I'm going to give you more credit for being an open minded thinker than you've given me. I don't think YOU'RE hopeless, and hope is the only thing that's going to keep us all alive long enough to cash the social security checks that may or may not come. (Uh-oh... That's a fear appeal. Slap me around!)
RE: IF ONLY WE ALL HAD MORE TIME TO INTELLECTUALLY WRESTLE AND POST...
This post took less than an hour to write.
Granted, that cut into my spare wanking time, but if we don't have time to help make the world a better place for ourselves AND others, what's the point of spending time, period?
I'M BEING STUPID AGAIN...
BTW, you referenced your "admiring public". You in show biz, or am I just not getting the joke? (I have a hard time judging tone in this format. Just one of my many cyberweaknesses). But I'd really like to know. You seem to be a bright and hardworking guy, so I'd like to know more about you.
We have much in common. I worked my way through college and both of us were lucky enough to live in a time when you could relatively easily borrow some money to get an education. Sounds like you've been one of the lucky ones that contemporary mega-capitalism has worked out for. Again, my hat's off.
But have you ever considered you're in the minority, even amongst the educated elite (which you and I are) if you're actually doing what you were trained to do? College educated folks are having a harder time finding a job in this economy than at any point in my 44 years. http://www.manews.org/0504jobless.html and http://www.epinet.org/content.cfm/issuebriefs_ib198
Unfortunately, funding for schooling continues to plummett, too, while the cost of tuition goes through the roof. The way many of us see it, either we want to give today's students the same kind of advantages we had, and that previous generations fought to give, or we can just leave folks behind.
I choose the former. The current administration does not. They prefer spending our taxes on destroying the infrastructure of one of the more literate countries on the planet (before we helped Saddam rise to power). The Bush education plan? Talk big in speeches, then just don't fund the programs.
RE: KERRY VS EDWARDS EX ENEMIES, NOW HUGGIES...
Agreed that it's going to be pretty easy to show them at each others' throats when they were fighting for the same job. That's just one of the reasons why that ticket definitely isn't my first choice.
But it's the only ticket that I see as having a shot of removing Bush and co, and as he says,"The enemy of my enemy is my friend." Really a pessimistic view, but Machiavellian, pragmatic, and the only electable port being offered in this storm.
(Agreed, STARMAN, we are a democracy and should take responsibility for electing officials that aren't part of the industrial elite. But what do we have to vote for now? Two guys who belong to the same rich boy secret organization -- Yale's Skull and Bones -- and refuse to speak in public about it. When you combine the total support that all of the "regular citizen but supposedly unelectable" candidates ala Al Sharpton, Dennis Kusinich, libertarians, and the like, we could beat either Kerry/Edwards or Bush/Cheney. But the support is kept fragmented by a political system that favors the monied/connected members of entrenched parties, and doesn't work nearly hard enough to keep the mainstream electorate energized. Where's Andrew Jackson or Teddy Roosevelt when we need him? )
RE: RELIGIOUS WAR:
When a wide eye'd Muslim extremist comes after me with a sword while I'm buying Viagra at my local K-Mart, I'll be concerned with the possiblity that their religious convictions might impact my life.
Until that point, I'll contend this war -- like every other war ever fought -- is about "you have power or stuff, and I want it." We (the west) have been trying to impose our control over the entire region's resources for centuries (see www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/iz.html - copy and paste it into your browser. I'd rather not have the folks at the CIA showing hits coming from Freeones, but we all owe it to ourselves and the rest of the planet to be familiar with their site.)
911 was a tragic, overly aggressive, totally inappropriate statement of self determination, not religious expansionism. And oh yeah, it had nothing to do with Iraq. But I digress...
If the terrorists are so bent on waging a religion based war, why didn't they attack the nation's largest Christian churches on 911? One hell of a lot easier to pull off.
Instead, what did they attack? The single most glowing symbol of neocon world economic domination -- the World Trade Center (see the name) -- and the Pentagon, which is the symbol of our unchecked military buildup and intrusive military presence in countries around the world, with airplanes that are the symbol of technologically advanced societies.
If you were bent on making sure your religion dominated the planet, wouldn't you attack religious centers, where you might kill large numbers of Christians?... The same religion, let's remember, who used god as an excuse to invade the region and kill untold thousands of folks who refused to be "saved" a few centuries back. (FYI: I'm no Christianity hater. I was raised Methodist and am proud of it. I just remember that my religion-vs-your religion has been used by evil men to justify killing since the dawn of war. I want no part of that, and neither does the average Muslim.)
If there's one thing that Michael Moore's work has taught me -- escpecially Columine and F911 -- it's that you have to look awfully hard at the arguments of a person who uses fear to get you to spend money/support a cause. Whether it's insurance companies, drug companies, car companies, or now our government, we're constantly bombarded with it. If you don't buy the right clothes people won't like you. If you don't take this pill you might go bald and won't get that promotion. If you don't buy a gun or an SUV you might die. If you don't have Onstar you'll never find your keys. If you don't have some bullshit bracelett on grandma's wrist she's going to fall down the stairs and nobody will ever hear from her again.
And Muslims are going to invade these shores and cut our heads off.
Fear appeals in general are lame, and that's one of the reasons why when I spew gloom and doom about Bush and Co, I take the time to either cite sources or try to present at least a moderately developed argument. (Which, unfortunately, takes up space, and sorry to all for that.)
And even though we may be on opposite sides of the fense on some issues, RANGER, I'm going to give you more credit for being an open minded thinker than you've given me. I don't think YOU'RE hopeless, and hope is the only thing that's going to keep us all alive long enough to cash the social security checks that may or may not come. (Uh-oh... That's a fear appeal. Slap me around!)
RE: IF ONLY WE ALL HAD MORE TIME TO INTELLECTUALLY WRESTLE AND POST...
This post took less than an hour to write.
Granted, that cut into my spare wanking time, but if we don't have time to help make the world a better place for ourselves AND others, what's the point of spending time, period?
I'M BEING STUPID AGAIN...
BTW, you referenced your "admiring public". You in show biz, or am I just not getting the joke? (I have a hard time judging tone in this format. Just one of my many cyberweaknesses). But I'd really like to know. You seem to be a bright and hardworking guy, so I'd like to know more about you.
WAY TO VERBOSE FOXFILM POST, PT II
(Sorry folks, I'm whipped into a frenzy, here...)
GEORGES: Thanks for reading my stuff! And part of me admires your loyalty to GWB. Unfortunately, that part isn't my brain.
RE: BUSH VS KERRY WAR RECORD...
I respectfully submit, it ain't even close, partner. You say you heard on VOM (Voice of America?) that Kerry was not on the front line. If that's the case, either they're wrong, or they're lying. Either way, you've been misinformed. I'm not saying you're stupid, I'm saying the information you've seen or heard is wrong.
Check Kerry's resume here:
http://www.johnkerry.com/about/ (Think that source is too biased? See below, but this one is a more pleasant, smoother read. Better layout and visuals, too!)
Note, he has won Silver Star, Bronze Star with Combat V, and three awards of the Purple Heart while serving as a gunboat officer. BACK ME UP OR SHUT ME DOWN ON THIS VN VETS... Aren't we talking the same kind of boat featured in "Apocalypse Now"? I'd hardly call that in the rear. Having seen this, are you willing to say that the US Military made the mistake of giving him 6 major awards during his tour?
Re: National Guard. I have nothing but respect for most National Guardsmen. (If you're a Neil Young fan "4 Dead In Ohio" will ring a bell. I was raised a few miles from Kent State. But I'M DEFINITELY NOT TAKING A SHOT AT ALL NATIONAL GUARDMEN.
It's the the administration that put them there, and the few who decided to shoot into an unarmed crowd and kill 4 college kids without provocation who get me bit steamed.)
So for the most part I'm pro National Guard. But keep in mind the National Guard committment in Viet Nam was radically different than what they're being forced to do now.
Bush could have volunteered for combat duty. But he didn't. (In all fairness, I doubt that I would have either in those days. That's what make's Kerry's committment outshine Bush's so brilliantly.)
Kerry volunteered for combat duty; Bush used his connections, like many rich boys do, to get into the Texas Air National Guard, where he had a hard time showing up for duty, evidently, and was, BY THE NATIONAL GUARD'S OWN DEFINITION, AWOL.
See http://www.awolbush.com/. Don't be scared off by the title of the site. This guy has COPIES OF ACTUAL MILITARY DOCUMENTS that compare Kerry to Bush. (As always, they're a bitch to read. Now why is that?...)
Oh yeah, after refusing for months to provide info on his tax dollar supported military service to the public, his office begrudgingly gave up dental records and some pay stubs that proved only that he went to the dentist and got paid, not that he showed up and performed his duties.
And now, microfilm files which could go far in proving his guilt or innocence have unfortunately and mysteriously been damaged/lost in a transferring accident. Oh darn...
EVEN IF YOU DON'T BELIEVE ANY OF THE ABOVE...
Through all of this controversy there has been a total of 1 guy to give a less than convincing interview on national television saying he remembers seeing George Bush doing his duty at the Alabama National Guard, and he disappeared back into obscurity after about 24 hours of media scrutiny. (By my mind, discredited totally as he would provide no specifics in questioning.)
His commanding officer doesn't remember him, and none of the other men in his unit have any recollection of him according to investigative news reporters who have been searching. You don't remember the son of one of the most wealthy families in the country? Your memory isn't jogged when you see his dad become president, and then him? THERE'S EVEN A $10,000 REWARD BEING OFFERED TO ANYONE WHO CAN PROVE HE WAS AT DANNELLY AFB! Nobody has claimed it...
But let's say he actually showed up for work...
Bush scored just 2 points higher than than the minimum requirements to be certified to fly. (See Greg Palast's work at the Guardian; that's lousy even for a self proclaimed C student). He was as certified on a plane that wasn't in action in Viet Nam (F-102), so the odds of him being actually called up were even more slim than the average NG member of the day. So we basically spent $1 million (the cost of training a combat pilot) for nothing. Actually, less than nothing, because according to this source, he even faced disciplinary actions while in the Guard. Ergo, his input was seen as a detriment to the organization.
http://www.awolbush.com/kerry-vs-bush.asp
But instead of just hammering your boy, let's get you thinking alternatives, Georges. I'm an ex-Republican Uncle Tom (my term for folks who have bought into Repub bs while making less than $100K per year.) What would be the bad thing about Kerry/Edward winning?
As always, I look forward to your response, GEORGES. You seem to be a good man and I desperately want you on anyone but Bush's side, so I'm going to keep extending my hand...
INTERESTING CLOSING THOUGHT... Teresa H. Kerry has been taking some heat because she's white and referred to herself as "African American". She was born in Morocco and became a US citizen, wasn't she? Doesn't that make her even more "African-American" than the average American born black? Not trying to start any race crap. I just think it's an interesting item about the meaning of words.
Peace, health, and prosperity for all.
:hatsoff:
(Sorry folks, I'm whipped into a frenzy, here...)
GEORGES: Thanks for reading my stuff! And part of me admires your loyalty to GWB. Unfortunately, that part isn't my brain.
RE: BUSH VS KERRY WAR RECORD...
I respectfully submit, it ain't even close, partner. You say you heard on VOM (Voice of America?) that Kerry was not on the front line. If that's the case, either they're wrong, or they're lying. Either way, you've been misinformed. I'm not saying you're stupid, I'm saying the information you've seen or heard is wrong.
Check Kerry's resume here:
http://www.johnkerry.com/about/ (Think that source is too biased? See below, but this one is a more pleasant, smoother read. Better layout and visuals, too!)
Note, he has won Silver Star, Bronze Star with Combat V, and three awards of the Purple Heart while serving as a gunboat officer. BACK ME UP OR SHUT ME DOWN ON THIS VN VETS... Aren't we talking the same kind of boat featured in "Apocalypse Now"? I'd hardly call that in the rear. Having seen this, are you willing to say that the US Military made the mistake of giving him 6 major awards during his tour?
Re: National Guard. I have nothing but respect for most National Guardsmen. (If you're a Neil Young fan "4 Dead In Ohio" will ring a bell. I was raised a few miles from Kent State. But I'M DEFINITELY NOT TAKING A SHOT AT ALL NATIONAL GUARDMEN.
It's the the administration that put them there, and the few who decided to shoot into an unarmed crowd and kill 4 college kids without provocation who get me bit steamed.)
So for the most part I'm pro National Guard. But keep in mind the National Guard committment in Viet Nam was radically different than what they're being forced to do now.
Bush could have volunteered for combat duty. But he didn't. (In all fairness, I doubt that I would have either in those days. That's what make's Kerry's committment outshine Bush's so brilliantly.)
Kerry volunteered for combat duty; Bush used his connections, like many rich boys do, to get into the Texas Air National Guard, where he had a hard time showing up for duty, evidently, and was, BY THE NATIONAL GUARD'S OWN DEFINITION, AWOL.
See http://www.awolbush.com/. Don't be scared off by the title of the site. This guy has COPIES OF ACTUAL MILITARY DOCUMENTS that compare Kerry to Bush. (As always, they're a bitch to read. Now why is that?...)
Oh yeah, after refusing for months to provide info on his tax dollar supported military service to the public, his office begrudgingly gave up dental records and some pay stubs that proved only that he went to the dentist and got paid, not that he showed up and performed his duties.
And now, microfilm files which could go far in proving his guilt or innocence have unfortunately and mysteriously been damaged/lost in a transferring accident. Oh darn...
EVEN IF YOU DON'T BELIEVE ANY OF THE ABOVE...
Through all of this controversy there has been a total of 1 guy to give a less than convincing interview on national television saying he remembers seeing George Bush doing his duty at the Alabama National Guard, and he disappeared back into obscurity after about 24 hours of media scrutiny. (By my mind, discredited totally as he would provide no specifics in questioning.)
His commanding officer doesn't remember him, and none of the other men in his unit have any recollection of him according to investigative news reporters who have been searching. You don't remember the son of one of the most wealthy families in the country? Your memory isn't jogged when you see his dad become president, and then him? THERE'S EVEN A $10,000 REWARD BEING OFFERED TO ANYONE WHO CAN PROVE HE WAS AT DANNELLY AFB! Nobody has claimed it...
But let's say he actually showed up for work...
Bush scored just 2 points higher than than the minimum requirements to be certified to fly. (See Greg Palast's work at the Guardian; that's lousy even for a self proclaimed C student). He was as certified on a plane that wasn't in action in Viet Nam (F-102), so the odds of him being actually called up were even more slim than the average NG member of the day. So we basically spent $1 million (the cost of training a combat pilot) for nothing. Actually, less than nothing, because according to this source, he even faced disciplinary actions while in the Guard. Ergo, his input was seen as a detriment to the organization.
http://www.awolbush.com/kerry-vs-bush.asp
But instead of just hammering your boy, let's get you thinking alternatives, Georges. I'm an ex-Republican Uncle Tom (my term for folks who have bought into Repub bs while making less than $100K per year.) What would be the bad thing about Kerry/Edward winning?
As always, I look forward to your response, GEORGES. You seem to be a good man and I desperately want you on anyone but Bush's side, so I'm going to keep extending my hand...
INTERESTING CLOSING THOUGHT... Teresa H. Kerry has been taking some heat because she's white and referred to herself as "African American". She was born in Morocco and became a US citizen, wasn't she? Doesn't that make her even more "African-American" than the average American born black? Not trying to start any race crap. I just think it's an interesting item about the meaning of words.
Peace, health, and prosperity for all.
:hatsoff:
Another nice link on US college education and joblessness...
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/02_39/b3801049.htm
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/02_39/b3801049.htm
And another.
http://www.boston.com/business/articles/2004/03/25/limited_prospects/
Should I just start another string on this? I'm truely a floundering idiot when it comes to "board etiquette".
http://www.boston.com/business/articles/2004/03/25/limited_prospects/
Should I just start another string on this? I'm truely a floundering idiot when it comes to "board etiquette".
Dirty Sanchez
Banned
Just got back from seeing F9/11 and I'm now re-thinking my desire to see Bowling. Its clear as day Moore has an agenda and he is no better then the media outlets he slams.
Uneducated, and small minded people will buy into this movie. There are a ton of things he's left out.
He is an angry man who needs to find a woman or 2.
Uneducated, and small minded people will buy into this movie. There are a ton of things he's left out.
He is an angry man who needs to find a woman or 2.
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! My head is going to blow up!!!!!!!!!!!:eyeso:
foxfilm, I admire your research. I'll bet you never believe that the first time I voted republican was Bush/Clinton. I tore down pictures of Nixon, Reagan, worked for the local democratic party, etc. I even voted for Dukakis and Mondale for God's sake:eek:
I moved away from too many phoneys that that make up the democratic party.
foxfilm, you are so far beyond help, but that's ok. I saw the light, maybe, you might someday. I'll still have a beer with you:beer:
Regarding that a-hole Moore...........once he did a spoof on Heston in BFC, he lost all credibility with me. He is a great guy for the DNC. You ought to be proud, him and Whoopi. Great role models.
Go out and pick up the book, "Michael Moore is a Stupid White Man." He was better off making movies like "Canadian Bacon".
Ranger
foxfilm, I admire your research. I'll bet you never believe that the first time I voted republican was Bush/Clinton. I tore down pictures of Nixon, Reagan, worked for the local democratic party, etc. I even voted for Dukakis and Mondale for God's sake:eek:
I moved away from too many phoneys that that make up the democratic party.
foxfilm, you are so far beyond help, but that's ok. I saw the light, maybe, you might someday. I'll still have a beer with you:beer:
Regarding that a-hole Moore...........once he did a spoof on Heston in BFC, he lost all credibility with me. He is a great guy for the DNC. You ought to be proud, him and Whoopi. Great role models.
Go out and pick up the book, "Michael Moore is a Stupid White Man." He was better off making movies like "Canadian Bacon".
Ranger
Moore is already a happily married man with a wife and a daughter, and I do not really think that being without a woman is required to dislike Bush. I disliked George W. Bush already before he got elected. :tongue:
I haven't seen "F9/11" yet, but Moore's tv-series the Awful Truth, his film Bowling for Columbine, and his book Stupid White Men shows that he has a great deal of humour.
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Ranger: My apologies for the cranial strain.
If I'm helpless, which direction should I be heading? What's the first step? Or should I just sit back into an alcoholic daze? (That's one of my faves).
If Bush/Cheney and Kerry/Edwards weren't involved who would you like to see running things? Who's your dream team?
Same for everyone else.
Kusinich, anyone? (My favorite Ohio nut case with vision.)
Or maybe your dream team comes from outside of politics? EVEN BETTER.
I may be beyond help, but I'm not too proud to ask for it.
And I'll even give you some fodder. My dream team would be
President: Coach Marvin Lewis of the re-emerging Cincinnati Bengals. For the unitiated, they've been the worst team in American Football for well over a decade, but he has inspired them to play far better than the athletes should be on paper, and is building a winner. He's disciplined, sharp minded, been a success at everything he's ever attempted, and is loved in his church and community for his sterling character. And he's an African American with an inspirational speaking style and a general zest for life and a passion for excellence.
Michael Moore One of the youngest ever to be elected to public office. Has always looked out for the little guy, is an odd, but inspirational speaker, and civic activism is his life. His work has saved at least one life. (Anyone remember the cancer patient?)
Yet he's an NRA member, a pretty good shot, and is capable of doing something that takes away from the inherent asexuality he exudes as a dough boy.
Lewis is southern, Moore northern. Lewis small town (I think) and Moore's from a big dilapidated rotting city. Lewis v-shaped and pressed. Moore looks more like me. He looks like a wrinkled unkempt schlub. But at least schlubs like me could identify with someone in power.
I'll shut up now.
Peace, health, prosperity, and thanks,
If I'm helpless, which direction should I be heading? What's the first step? Or should I just sit back into an alcoholic daze? (That's one of my faves).
If Bush/Cheney and Kerry/Edwards weren't involved who would you like to see running things? Who's your dream team?
Same for everyone else.
Kusinich, anyone? (My favorite Ohio nut case with vision.)
Or maybe your dream team comes from outside of politics? EVEN BETTER.
I may be beyond help, but I'm not too proud to ask for it.
And I'll even give you some fodder. My dream team would be
President: Coach Marvin Lewis of the re-emerging Cincinnati Bengals. For the unitiated, they've been the worst team in American Football for well over a decade, but he has inspired them to play far better than the athletes should be on paper, and is building a winner. He's disciplined, sharp minded, been a success at everything he's ever attempted, and is loved in his church and community for his sterling character. And he's an African American with an inspirational speaking style and a general zest for life and a passion for excellence.
Michael Moore One of the youngest ever to be elected to public office. Has always looked out for the little guy, is an odd, but inspirational speaker, and civic activism is his life. His work has saved at least one life. (Anyone remember the cancer patient?)
Yet he's an NRA member, a pretty good shot, and is capable of doing something that takes away from the inherent asexuality he exudes as a dough boy.
Lewis is southern, Moore northern. Lewis small town (I think) and Moore's from a big dilapidated rotting city. Lewis v-shaped and pressed. Moore looks more like me. He looks like a wrinkled unkempt schlub. But at least schlubs like me could identify with someone in power.
I'll shut up now.
Peace, health, prosperity, and thanks,
hi foxfilm
the f102 delta dagger was mainly an interceptor not an attack fighter like the f4, the f105, the f100 supersabre or the f111.Of course gwb was not qualified for vietnam.All who served in ANG from 1957-1985 flew on the conveir f102delta dagger and f106 delta dart.But you have to know that during this period USA was afraid of potential nuclear bombing from urss that is why ang was here to protect the country.
regards
georges
the f102 delta dagger was mainly an interceptor not an attack fighter like the f4, the f105, the f100 supersabre or the f111.Of course gwb was not qualified for vietnam.All who served in ANG from 1957-1985 flew on the conveir f102delta dagger and f106 delta dart.But you have to know that during this period USA was afraid of potential nuclear bombing from urss that is why ang was here to protect the country.
regards
georges
Dirty Sanchez
Banned
Starman said:Moore is already a happily married man with a wife and a daughter, and I do not really think that being without a woman is required to dislike Bush. I disliked George W. Bush already before he got elected. :tongue:
I haven't seen "F9/11" yet, but Moore's tv-series the Awful Truth, his film Bowling for Columbine, and his book Stupid White Men shows that he has a great deal of humour.
I feel sorry for his wife, he's an angry little fat man.
His "humor", if thats what you call it, is childish. Only people with half a brain, will believe the half truths and part facts he delivers in this movie.
A fair and balanced look at this situation, would have provided viewers with all the information, not just the stuff that he has choosen to show.
Angry? Well, then he is one of the calmest angry men I've seen, many angry men get red-faced, destroys things, hits people, resorts to violence to try to resolve a situation. Moore writes books and makes documentaries.
A child would for example not do a fact research, so your definition of childish is a little off-key. And about his half fact/half humour approach he's like Jay Leno in the Tonight Show a lot. First Leno tells some facts, and then tops it off with a joke. It's quite obvious what is the fact and what is the joke in both Leno's and Moore's stuff, so I don't really see what's the problem there.
There are already plenty of those more balanced sources available. He's trying to make a point, a political statement, not a PBS After School Special.
Two things Starman... (Because I hate to see people nitpick little things from people's posts rather than seeing the whole picture of a post.)
I doubt you disliked President Bush before he was reelected. Im a big political follower and the only thing I knew about Bush before the election was that he had a chance of running for the republican party. As you live in Sweden... Im probably making a pretty accurate guess that I would PROBABLY have more accurate information on the matter.
Second... Aggression and Anger are two different things.
Violence is a form of agression not anger. Michael Moore is a very angry man. But I still support him. I think he has a lot to be angry over.
I doubt you disliked President Bush before he was reelected. Im a big political follower and the only thing I knew about Bush before the election was that he had a chance of running for the republican party. As you live in Sweden... Im probably making a pretty accurate guess that I would PROBABLY have more accurate information on the matter.
Second... Aggression and Anger are two different things.
Violence is a form of agression not anger. Michael Moore is a very angry man. But I still support him. I think he has a lot to be angry over.
President Bush wasn't "reelected". To my knowledge it's his first term in office, and yes, I did really dislike him already before he got elected. I didn't agree with what he said he wanted to do, and frankly he didn't seem especially intelligent either. I hoped for Gore to win, maybe a bit boring man, but in my opinion the better choice of them two.
And just because I live in Sweden doesn't mean I don't have access to news from both American and other sources, after all we live in the information society, don't we?
I do have, and have had, a lot of friends in the USA, who also tell me their opinions on the American politics. I've also been active in politics for 10 years now, since I was 17, and am a member of the largest political party in Sweden. The Swedish news sources keep an eye on USA, and the political parties in Sweden do too, because as USA is the only super power left in the world, everything you do has an impact on Sweden, Europe and the rest of the world. Maybe it's difficult for you Americans to see, as you are on the inside, to see the impact your politics, both the foreign and the domestic, has on the rest of the world.
With great power must come great responsibility.
I have an American friend who tries to get as much of her news from non-American news sources as possible, so she will get as multi-facetted and hopefully as unbiased information as possible.
I don't mean to offend any of you Americans, but this might be a good idea, so that you do not get all your news from for example just sources like Fox News. There are many non-American news sources to find on the Internet, many also available in an international version (translated to English)
This is for exampe SR International. (SR = Sveriges Radio, "Swedish Radio")
SR International
If you click on "ENGELSKA English" you get news from a Swedish radio news editorial staff in English, both text and Internet radio, or if you live in, or close to, Sweden you can listen to it on the ordinary radio.
I don't mean to offend any of you Americans, but this might be a good idea, so that you do not get all your news from for example just sources like Fox News. There are many non-American news sources to find on the Internet, many also available in an international version (translated to English)
This is for exampe SR International. (SR = Sveriges Radio, "Swedish Radio")
SR International
If you click on "ENGELSKA English" you get news from a Swedish radio news editorial staff in English, both text and Internet radio, or if you live in, or close to, Sweden you can listen to it on the ordinary radio.
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Amen, Starman. (BTW, if you liked the tv show, you'll love the movie. You absolutely must see it. )
Is Moore angry? You bet he is. And he's expressing the opinions of a growing number of less than happy campers in this country. But in chorus with Starman, his anger has killed how many people? George's decisions have killed how many people? Has George ever worked to SAVE a life? I know he could have saved at least 232 of his own incarcerated citizens, while still preventing them from ever harming one of us on the outside, but he chose to kill them instead. http://www.texecutions.com/texecuted.html
Re: Half truths. Tell you what, DS. Moore's thinking about offering $10,000 to anyone who can prove one of his assertions to be factually incorrect. Instead of insulting the intelligence of those who disagree with you, what say you try to collect?
The only way you get "fair and balanced" is by reading/viewing several sources. Preferably left AND right. There is no single "fair and balanced" source out there. Every source of info has a point of view. Moore's work has a very blatant point of view, and that's why it's garnered the success it has. It's a point of view that resonates with most of America, and only those with totally closed minds can leave the theater without at least questioning the sources they've been using for their information, mainstream or not.
I don't mean to be harsh, here, DS, but barring a "terrorist attack" where your pal's administration is chomping at the bit to SUSPEND ELECTIONS (http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/07/11/election.day.delay/, something never even considered before in the history of this country, to my knowledge), you're going to have to find a way to make peace with Moore supporters, because Bush/Cheney don't have a chance in a legal election. (And yes, it was literally stolen in 2000 by the president's brother and collaborators. Again, check "The Best Democracy Money Can Buy" by Greg Pallast. Here's an interview with Palast from Larry Flynt publications. http://www.indi-edge.com/palast/ Surely you're a Larry fan, yes? )
GEORGES: Thanks for the aircraft info! Your "protection from Russian attack" is an angle I hadn't thought of. Thank you!
But I'm unfortunately still not buying. How many Russian ICBM's or aircraft were the National Guard asked to shoot down? None? And was that information available when George chose the guard instead of going to Viet Nam? Yep. So which was the potentially safer choice, Mekong delta firestorm or Texas? Which would be more likely to give one the resume line without blood committment? Classic Bush.
Kerry VOLUNTEERED for real combat. Surely a man with the kind of military knowledge and respect you show will give Kerry his due on that, yes?
Peace, health, and prosperity to all
Is Moore angry? You bet he is. And he's expressing the opinions of a growing number of less than happy campers in this country. But in chorus with Starman, his anger has killed how many people? George's decisions have killed how many people? Has George ever worked to SAVE a life? I know he could have saved at least 232 of his own incarcerated citizens, while still preventing them from ever harming one of us on the outside, but he chose to kill them instead. http://www.texecutions.com/texecuted.html
Re: Half truths. Tell you what, DS. Moore's thinking about offering $10,000 to anyone who can prove one of his assertions to be factually incorrect. Instead of insulting the intelligence of those who disagree with you, what say you try to collect?
The only way you get "fair and balanced" is by reading/viewing several sources. Preferably left AND right. There is no single "fair and balanced" source out there. Every source of info has a point of view. Moore's work has a very blatant point of view, and that's why it's garnered the success it has. It's a point of view that resonates with most of America, and only those with totally closed minds can leave the theater without at least questioning the sources they've been using for their information, mainstream or not.
I don't mean to be harsh, here, DS, but barring a "terrorist attack" where your pal's administration is chomping at the bit to SUSPEND ELECTIONS (http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/07/11/election.day.delay/, something never even considered before in the history of this country, to my knowledge), you're going to have to find a way to make peace with Moore supporters, because Bush/Cheney don't have a chance in a legal election. (And yes, it was literally stolen in 2000 by the president's brother and collaborators. Again, check "The Best Democracy Money Can Buy" by Greg Pallast. Here's an interview with Palast from Larry Flynt publications. http://www.indi-edge.com/palast/ Surely you're a Larry fan, yes? )
GEORGES: Thanks for the aircraft info! Your "protection from Russian attack" is an angle I hadn't thought of. Thank you!
But I'm unfortunately still not buying. How many Russian ICBM's or aircraft were the National Guard asked to shoot down? None? And was that information available when George chose the guard instead of going to Viet Nam? Yep. So which was the potentially safer choice, Mekong delta firestorm or Texas? Which would be more likely to give one the resume line without blood committment? Classic Bush.
Kerry VOLUNTEERED for real combat. Surely a man with the kind of military knowledge and respect you show will give Kerry his due on that, yes?
Peace, health, and prosperity to all
I know americans hate Moore for being different but i think he is true in what he has showed about the attacks and what has followed.
Although people laugh at him for supporting the war, he had a valid reason: He is supporting the TROOPS, not the motive behind it. If you do not support your troops, you are NOT supporting your nation.
It was something like that and i agree with him there, that is why i support the Australian contribution of training troops and police over there, they have a job just like you and i but theirs involves guns and stuff. Although the motive is not right, i support my armed forces ALL the way, after all they have to make a living for their wives, kids, family etc.
think about that side and you will agree
(it is up to you of course!)
Although people laugh at him for supporting the war, he had a valid reason: He is supporting the TROOPS, not the motive behind it. If you do not support your troops, you are NOT supporting your nation.
It was something like that and i agree with him there, that is why i support the Australian contribution of training troops and police over there, they have a job just like you and i but theirs involves guns and stuff
. Although the motive is not right, i support my armed forces ALL the way, after all they have to make a living for their wives, kids, family etc.think about that side and you will agree
(it is up to you of course!)
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