Many NeoCons attacking gov't health insurance rely on gov't health insurance

[Rey C.]

You're right. Been a long time since I've needed any healthcare at all. Last time I was in, I needed three little stitches, and it was all covered by the company I work for.

So I shouldn't be concerned with what I'll have to deal with soon enough? Or what my friends and family have to deal with now, or will have to?

If I must understand that you aren't trying to be a smart ass, then you should understand that i'm not being cynical. And if I said something that you deem ignorant or offensive, then I apologize.

I'm just speaking my young, inexperienced and obviously ignorant mind, jagger. Much love.

To be fair, at 23, you probably don't give much thought to health care, retirement, mortgages, life insurance... and a lot of other things. Hell, at 23, I didn't stay up nights thinking about those things either. Well, mortgages... but that's just because of what I did for a living.

Unless there's something physically wrong with you, you've got it made in the shade for a few years. If you lose your job, you could buy a relatively cheap private policy right now. Or you could roll the dice and not have insurance. A lot of young people do that and they do just fine. Right now, the odds are really in your favor. If or when you get married and have kids, that's when the odds begin to turn against you.

Not wishing anything bad on you or anyone else, but what if you happen to marry a woman who develops cancer? If treating her disease causes you to exhaust your benefits (most private policies have lifetime caps), you will no longer be covered. Simple as that. Once you're bankrupt, if you have kids, you can probably get on Medicaid. Or maybe a charity will help you out. But that's about it.

I don't know what the exact right answer is, with respect to health care reform. But I'd be willing to bet my last nickel that if it's not reformed in some substantive way very soon, that big shit sandwich that we're all going to have to take a bite of, is on the counter being made.

 

[Jagger69]

You're right. Been a long time since I've needed any healthcare at all. Last time I was in, I needed three little stitches, and it was all covered by the company I work for.

So I shouldn't be concerned with what I'll have to deal with soon enough? Or what my friends and family have to deal with now, or will have to?

If I must understand that you aren't trying to be a smart ass, then you should understand that i'm not being cynical. And if I said something that you deem ignorant or offensive, then I apologize.

I'm just speaking my young, inexperienced and obviously ignorant mind, jagger. Much love.

Pardon me but exactly when and where did I say that you were ignorant? I also never said nor even implied that you were cynical....I said your perspective was that of someone who has not had to experience the many horrors of the existing health care system to any significant degree. If that was a insult to you, please accept my sincere apologies because that was not my intent. I think you represent the laizzez faire attitude that a lot of young people have about this issue and I was not trying to single you out individually.

Again....if I offended you, it was not intentional and I apologize.

However, I would ask you to consider the possibility that your company may not always be able to provide you with comprehensive health coverage. How would that affect your opinion? What if they suddenly decided that health care was too expensive and dropped it altogether? What if you got sick and had no health insurance at all? Would you still want to keep the health care system just as it is in its present form?

These are the very serious realities that almost 50 million people in this country have to deal with every day. It's a national disgrace. Simply being willing to accept the system we have now because it suits someone's singular benefit without thinking of the common good for all Americans is extremely myopic at best and downright elitist at it's worst (not making any personal inference about you, skechers....just using your situation as an example).

 

[Jagger69]

Let's assume for a minute that we can give everyone in the country health insurance and the standard of care will not decrease... (big assumption).

So the question becomes this: How are we going to pay for it?

How about we start by eliminating this?

http://costofwar.com/

 

[feller469]

Dammit Jagger, quit making valid points that have little room for debate. When you do that it ends threads. Giving coherent, valid points, dammit, it's, it's un-American!!!

 

[Rey C.]

Do you really have insurance coverage, or do you just have a policy? Do you know?

It's a long read, but it's worth it.

LOS ANGELES -- The untimely disappearance of Sally Marrari's medical coverage goes a long way toward explaining why insurance companies are cast as the villain in the health-care reform drama.

"They said I never mentioned I had a back problem," said Marrari, 52, whose coverage with Blue Cross was abruptly canceled in 2006 after a thyroid disorder, fluid in the heart and lupus were diagnosed. That left the Los Angeles woman with $25,000 in medical bills and the stigma of the company's claim that she had committed fraud by not listing on a health questionnaire "preexisting conditions" Marrari said she did not know she had.

By the time she filed a lawsuit in 2008, she also got a diagnosis of pancreatic cancer and her debts had swelled beyond $200,000. She was able to see a specialist by trading office visits for work on the doctor's 1969 Porsche at the garage she owns with her husband.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/09/07/AR2009090702455.html

 

[Jagger69]

Do you really have insurance coverage, or do you just have a policy? Do you know?

It's a long read, but it's worth it.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/09/07/AR2009090702455.html

Really great (and very sad) reference, Rey! :thumbsup: I'd rep you if I could.

Unfortunately, this situation plays out way too often for newspapers to pick up every time. You anti-health care reformers are worried about death panels? I've got news for you....death panels have had been in place for many years. They are called your health insurance company.

In a perfect world according to them and under the present structure, your health care company wants you to pay exorbitant premiums in exchange for a myriad of reasons to deny coverage. This has got to stop. The only way this happens is to remove capitalism from the equation.

I'm still waiting for a reasonable answer to the problem from those who are the most vehement critics of health care reform. Until that happens, you are not a part of the solution....you are a part of the problem. A BIG part. Wake the fuck up.

 

[meesterperfect]

So its kind of like anti abortion people getting an abortion?
Anti drug people taking prozac?

No its not.

Man,some of you Obama is "the one" people, and the Obama friendly media are getting desperate.

Answers Jag? I don't have many.
Maybe limit bullshit lawsuits against doctors, therefore cutting their insurance costs by a huge amount may help.
Maybe enforce illegal immigrations laws, they may help.
Do something about extremely overpriced medicines?
I'm sure smarter peolpe than me can come up with some better solutions also.

Its true insurance red tape has really messed up the system.
I am just wary of GOV control of anything, as I've seen pretty much all GOV controlled things are so damn wasteful to the point of ineffectiveness.
I also wonder with all the problems in the Country, why the PREZ is devoting so much time and energy to this now.
Has the huge stimulus spending that was supposed to do so much really done anything?
Have we organized an Iraq plan?
Are people getting back to work?
So whats the rush? whats his deal? true motivations?
I think its more of a personal ideaology thing than a plan that will benefit ALL, equally.
Remember there is good change, and bad change.

 

[JacknCoke]

you are a part of the problem. A BIG part. Wake the fuck up.

wow that's the rudest comment I have ever heard from you Jagger

 

[Will E Worm]

wow that's the rudest comment I have ever heard from you Jagger

I'm shocked. :tongue:

American's don't want Socialism reform.

If you like other countries for their policies move.
Problem solved.

Obama..."It's not what's in a bill that matters."
"It is what kind of country you want to be."

UM no.

We need to know what's in every bill.

 

[titsrock]

Americans want healthcare reform. Americans are tired of private corporations fucking them over and making obscene profits. The most effective way to reign in healthcare costs is to open up Medicare to all Americans. Hospitals should not be run as for profit entities. They view every patient as a cash cow. Only the fattened get treated. Too many Americans are popping too many pills, and paying too much money for those pills.

Our healthcare system is an inefficient joke. We can do better.

 

[Will E Worm]

^ No. :tongue: :hatsoff:

 

[titsrock]

^
Yeah, healthcare as a bankruptcy mechanism for the masses....that's much better.

 

[Will E Worm]

^
Yeah, healthcare as a bankruptcy mechanism for the masses....that's much better.

Health care ran by big brother, socialism. :hatsoff:

Americans don't want it.
The people who want it can move to Canada or any other country they want.

 

[titsrock]

^
So, since you face the prospect of not getting your way, you've resorted to telling people they should move.

How enlightening.

Which other country in the world has a healthcare system modeled after America's, btw?

 

[Hot Mega]

Health care ran by big brother, socialism.

Your nor anyone else's health care will be run by anyone else but your doctor. Government's don't administer health care, physicians do.

The government, if certain elements of reform come to pass will be defraying the costs of your treatments, exams and medicine no differently from the pool-structured way your insurance company off-sets your costs....(if you even know which ins. company you have).

 

[Supafly]

Just more twisted propaganda to pass Action T4, "health care."

:tongue:

Oh Willi, coming from you, that's funny.

You rightfully clained that custom title 'Conspiracy...', because you ARE a fan of mad theories.

Fell for one, again, I guess.

Health Care isn't marxism or stuff, it is out to make America a better place for rich AND poor.

 

[Facetious]

There are two schools of thought, one believes that health care is a fundamental individual right and the other doesn't. If you were born, bred & raised under the kind of ideology that insists that h/c is a right, even though it isn't, I pity you because you are now and will always be haunted from the "evils of envy". Get over all of your obsession that all things must be equal ! Envy is not an American value, it's a foreign "value". Stop attempting to change or "progress" society and the way that things are done in this country simply because you insisted on taking the short cut in life ! I mean seriously, are all well to do people "just lucky" as you would make it seem ? Nonsense ! Apply yourself and you will be just rewarded ! then you won't have to subject yourself to the lesser that the government has to offer.

If you really want reasonably priced health care to return, pull your heads out and demand that 20 - 40 million illegal undocumented non citizens go home and you'll notice almost immediately that health care costs will plummet. But NOOO ! The demokratiks are using the illegal alien population as A) an asset in their project to destroy the private sector of health care in this country because private health care is elite and we just simply cannot have that can we ? and B) for a voting constituency after obama gives em all amnesty. Duh

i.e. "Just bring it all down man ! By all means necessary ! Scorch that fuckin earth ! If ya got lemons, make lem..... :crash:

I could strangle (figuratively speaking of course to make it legal) this little weasily p.o.s. "rahm" :crash:

 

[don_equis]

Really great (and very sad) reference, Rey! :thumbsup: I'd rep you if I could.

Unfortunately, this situation plays out way too often for newspapers to pick up every time. You anti-health care reformers are worried about death panels? I've got news for you....death panels have had been in place for many years. They are called your health insurance company.

In a perfect world according to them and under the present structure, your health care company wants you to pay exorbitant premiums in exchange for a myriad of reasons to deny coverage. This has got to stop. The only way this happens is to remove capitalism from the equation.

I'm still waiting for a reasonable answer to the problem from those who are the most vehement critics of health care reform. Until that happens, you are not a part of the solution....you are a part of the problem. A BIG part. Wake the fuck up.

Based on your previous posting I agree with you that it's a mess and it's running out of control and it needs to be fixed.

But you got to agree that either HR 3200 or the Baucus Bill suck....and I for one am not in the best financial shape of my life and I don't like this mandated thing and th penalty that comes along with it...the economy is not that good to come down on people like this

 

[Hot Mega]

There are two schools of thought, one believes that health care is a fundamental individual right and the other doesn't.

There is a 3rd school of thought which believes it's only practical for a government with a GDP the size of the US's to not only subsidize a basic education for it's people but to subsidize basic health care coverage for it's people too. It makes sense just like having a government subsidize the protection of a fire dept. I don't see anyone mounting opposition to the government taxing you to make sure that if needed, there's a service in place available to everyone that will try to salvage your home or business in the event a fire happens. I know it's not a direct comparison but conceptually it's the same...the government subsidizing something for the greater good of all of it's people.

Now let's forget about reforming health care coverage (the correct phrase as the government isn't touching your health care) for the altruistic notion of attempting to ensure the population of your nation gets basic and reasonable examinations, treatments and medications when they need them. But reforming what we have in place now is more about saving the multitudes from a system that is currently bankrupting all involved.

The opposition seems to be of two schools of thought, someone told you to be against it (most likely as most of the claims and arguments are specious) and it's in your political interest to oppose it (as GOPers now claiming to have alternatives and "ideas" had 12 years to do so on their own and did nothing).

If you were born, bred & raised under the kind of ideology that insists that h/c is a right, even though it isn't, I pity you because you are now and will always be haunted from the "evils of envy". Get over all of your obsession that all things must be equal ! Envy is not an American value, it's a foreign "value". Stop attempting to change or "progress" society and the way that things are done in this country simply because you insisted on taking the short cut in life ! I mean seriously, are all well to do people "just lucky" as you would make it seem ? Nonsense ! Apply yourself and you will be just rewarded ! then you won't have to subject yourself to the lesser that the government has to offer.

There are plenty of people with way more money and material things who believe that the US ought to provide basic and reasonable coverage for it's citizens. I'm not sure how many of them believe it's a right but certainly the ones that do would cut against your argument that it's about envy. Pretty absurd notion to boot that the average person trying to figure out how to offset their costs of protecting the health of themselves and their families are merely ensnared in a web of envy.

If you really want reasonably priced health care to return, pull your heads out and demand that 20 - 40 million illegal undocumented non citizens go home and you'll notice almost immediately that health care costs will plummet.

You're a fucking genius!!! Fur fucksake is that all the fuck we needed to do...is just "demand" that these people go home and presto...they're gone?? That is a seriously prodigious theory on par with the one that suggested we could split an atom.

But NOOO ! The demokratiks are using the illegal alien population as A) an asset in their project to destroy the private sector of health care in this country because private health care is elite and we just simply cannot have that can we ? and B) for a voting constituency after obama gives em all amnesty. Duh

I suppose Reagan was trying to stuff the ballot boxes for the GOP too when he granted amnesty to nearly 2 million illegal aliens in '86 huh?

Here's a clue...we've recently witnessed the most significant exodus of illegals from the US ever....guess why? Because there are no jobs to be had and these people have gone home on their own. Now try and follow the theme...even though the effect of having a wrecked economy has been the only phenomena to have positively affected the illegal immigration issue, we don't need to wreck our economy to get that effect. If we simply address the reason why they come here (those who hire them) they will go home on their own.

 

[don_equis]

I don't get how we were rebellious against our parents for our independence and we get a lil old and a lil sick and we are ready to throw away are free choice to have the goverment take over our lives, to elect public officials and have them mandate on us or get taxed, errr "penalized" for not getting it...