LIE : 50% of the green energy companies the US government invested in have gone out of business

[Johan]

The difference between Bain Capital and the US Government is that, when a company in which Bain invested falls for bankruptcy, Romney still makes a lot of money. When a company in wich the US Government invested falls for bankruptcy, Obama don't makes a single penny.

 

[xfire]

Lying is easier than breathing for republicans, Johan. Republicans are beings of feelings and beliefs, not logic and truth.

 

[Will E Worm]

President Obama’s Taxpayer-Backed Green Energy Failures

It is no secret that President Obama’s and green-energy supporters’ (from both parties) foray into venture capitalism has not gone well. But the extent of its failure has been largely ignored by the press. Sure, single instances garner attention as they happen, but they ignore past failures in order to make it seem like a rare case.

The truth is that the problem is widespread. The government’s picking winners and losers in the energy market has cost taxpayers billions of dollars, and the rate of failure, cronyism, and corruption at the companies receiving the subsidies is substantial. The fact that some companies are not under financial duress does not make the policy a success. It simply means that our taxpayer dollars subsidized companies that would’ve found the financial support in the private market.

So far, 34 companies that were offered federal support from taxpayers are faltering — either having gone bankrupt or laying off workers or heading for bankruptcy. This list includes only those companies that received federal money from the Obama Administration’s Department of Energy and other agencies. The amount of money indicated does not reflect how much was actually received or spent but how much was offered. The amount also does not include other state, local, and federal tax credits and subsidies, which push the amount of money these companies have received from taxpayers even higher.

A list of tax-payer funded, faltering or bankrupt green-energy companies:

Evergreen Solar ($25 million)*
SpectraWatt ($500,000)*
Solyndra ($535 million)*
Beacon Power ($43 million)*
Nevada Geothermal ($98.5 million)
SunPower ($1.2 billion)
First Solar ($1.46 billion)
Babcock and Brown ($178 million)
EnerDel’s subsidiary Ener1 ($118.5 million)*
Amonix ($5.9 million)
Fisker Automotive ($529 million)
Abound Solar ($400 million)*
A123 Systems ($279 million)*
Willard and Kelsey Solar Group ($700,981)*
Johnson Controls ($299 million)
Schneider Electric ($86 million)
Brightsource ($1.6 billion)
ECOtality ($126.2 million)
Raser Technologies ($33 million)*
Energy Conversion Devices ($13.3 million)*
Mountain Plaza, Inc. ($2 million)*
Olsen’s Crop Service and Olsen’s Mills Acquisition Company ($10 million)*
Range Fuels ($80 million)*
Thompson River Power ($6.5 million)*
Stirling Energy Systems ($7 million)*
Azure Dynamics ($5.4 million)*
GreenVolts ($500,000)
Vestas ($50 million)
LG Chem’s subsidiary Compact Power ($151 million)
Nordic Windpower ($16 million)*
Navistar ($39 million)
Satcon ($3 million)*
Konarka Technologies Inc. ($20 million)*
Mascoma Corp. ($100 million)
*Denotes companies that have filed for bankruptcy.

The problem begins with the issue of government picking winners and losers in the first place. Venture capitalist firms exist for this very reason, and they choose what to invest in by looking at companies’ business models and deciding if they are worthy. When the government plays venture capitalist, it tends to reward companies that are connected to the policymakers themselves or because it sounds nice to “invest” in green energy.

The 2009 stimulus set aside $80 billion to subsidize politically preferred energy projects. Since that time, 1,900 investigations have been opened to look into stimulus waste, fraud, and abuse (although not all are linked to the green-energy funds), and nearly 600 convictions have been made. Of that $80 billion in clean energy loans, grants, and tax credits, at least 10 percent has gone to companies that have since either gone bankrupt or are circling the drain.


CORRECTION:

Figures for four companies have been updated: Beacon Power received $43 million from the U.S. government, not $69 million as originally reported. Azure Dynamics received $5.4 million from the federal government, not $120 million as originally reported. Compact Power Inc. received $151 million as part of the stimulus, not $150 million as originally reported. Willard and Kelsey Solar Group received $700,981 in government funding, not $6 million as originally reported.

The following companies have been removed from the original list: AES’s subsidiary Eastern Energy, LSP Energy and Uni-Solar did not receive government-backed loans, based on additional research. The National Renewable Energy Lab did received $200 million in stimulus funding, but it is a government laboratory.

Article

 

[PlumpRump]

The difference between Bain Capital and the US Government is that, when a company in which Bain invested falls for bankruptcy, Romney still makes a lot of money. When a company in wich the US Government invested falls for bankruptcy, Obama don't makes a single penny.

5 have filed for bankruptcy? You must be a Republican, according to xfire's logic in the post above, because the number is significantly higher than 5.

All of the following companies have both received taxpayer dollars from the Obama administration, and have declared bankruptcy:

-Evergreen Solar ($25 million)
-SpectraWatt ($500,000)
-Solyndra ($535 million)
-Beacon Power ($43 million)
-EnerDel’s subsidiary Ener1 ($118.5 million)
-Abound Solar ($400 million)
-A123 Systems ($279 million)
-Willard and Kelsey Solar Group ($700,981)
-Raser Technologies ($33 million)
-Energy Conversion Devices ($13.3 million)
-Mountain Plaza, Inc. ($2 million)
-Olsen’s Crop Service and Olsen’s Mills Acquisition Company ($10 million)
-Range Fuels ($80 million)
-Thompson River Power ($6.5 million)
-Stirling Energy Systems ($7 million)
-Azure Dynamics ($5.4 million)
-Nordic Windpower ($16 million)
-Satcon ($3 million)
-Konarka Technologies Inc. ($20 million)

That's 19 companies that have been invested in by the federal government, with taxpayer money, that have filed for bankruptcy in the last 2 years (nearly 4 times the number that you inaccurately "quoted" us), and this isn't even the complete list. Add to this the several other companies that are in the process of failing and this list will steadily continue to grow as companies like Bright Source ($1.6 billion), SunPower ($1.2 billion), First Solar ($1.46 billion) and many, many others continue to fail, lay off workers, fire executives, see their stock shares dramatically decline, and continually set lower and lower sales expectations until they, too, will eventually file for bankruptcy or get another bailout with taxpayer money.

You can look all of this stuff up. While I fully understand that it is infinitely easier to find a graphic, sans source, that fits your predetermined conclusion, the reality is very far from your desired mark. Most of these solar companies that have received these monies and have gone belly-up are either in my home state, or in a contiguous state to mine, and we hear these stories day in and day out on the local news. Even the liberal leaning local media outlets here refuse to lie about it anymore.

 

[zeeblofowl_1969]

Lying is easier than breathing for republicans, Johan. Republicans are beings of feelings and beliefs, not logic and truth.

The lies are truly all the pathetic sheep have. When you have nothing else you fight, scream, and get angry way to go GOP.

 

[larss]

So, is it a bad thing to invest in green energy?
Shouldn't this investment be made anyway, regardless of fiscal cost, given that the more ways that can be found of generating green energy, the better off we all are?
Or do you want the oil companies dictating energy usage for the foreseeable future?

 

[vodkazvictim]

5 have filed for bankruptcy? You must be a Republican, according to xfire's logic in the post above, because the number is significantly higher than 5.

All of the following companies have both received taxpayer dollars from the Obama administration, and have declared bankruptcy:

-Evergreen Solar ($25 million)
-SpectraWatt ($500,000)
-Solyndra ($535 million)
-Beacon Power ($43 million)
-EnerDel’s subsidiary Ener1 ($118.5 million)
-Abound Solar ($400 million)
-A123 Systems ($279 million)
-Willard and Kelsey Solar Group ($700,981)
-Raser Technologies ($33 million)
-Energy Conversion Devices ($13.3 million)
-Mountain Plaza, Inc. ($2 million)
-Olsen’s Crop Service and Olsen’s Mills Acquisition Company ($10 million)
-Range Fuels ($80 million)
-Thompson River Power ($6.5 million)
-Stirling Energy Systems ($7 million)
-Azure Dynamics ($5.4 million)
-Nordic Windpower ($16 million)
-Satcon ($3 million)
-Konarka Technologies Inc. ($20 million)

That's 19 companies that have been invested in by the federal government, with taxpayer money, that have filed for bankruptcy in the last 2 years (nearly 4 times the number that you inaccurately "quoted" us), and this isn't even the complete list. Add to this the several other companies that are in the process of failing and this list will steadily continue to grow as companies like Bright Source ($1.6 billion), SunPower ($1.2 billion), First Solar ($1.46 billion) and many, many others continue to fail, lay off workers, fire executives, see their stock shares dramatically decline, and continually set lower and lower sales expectations until they, too, will eventually file for bankruptcy or get another bailout with taxpayer money.

You can look all of this stuff up. While I fully understand that it is infinitely easier to find a graphic, sans source, that fits your predetermined conclusion, the reality is very far from your desired mark. Most of these solar companies that have received these monies and have gone belly-up are either in my home state, or in a contiguous state to mine, and we hear these stories day in and day out on the local news. Even the liberal leaning local media outlets here refuse to lie about it anymore.

Are they all Green companies? Because that's relevant to the debate. If so; prove it.

 

[PlumpRump]

So, is it a bad thing to invest in green energy?
Shouldn't this investment be made anyway, regardless of fiscal cost, given that the more ways that can be found of generating green energy, the better off we all are?
Or do you want the oil companies dictating energy usage for the foreseeable future?

Investment: The action or process of investing money for profit or material result; A thing that is worth buying because it may be profitable or useful in the future.

I would not have minded an actual "investment." Living in California, I can see the (alleged) benefits to wind, renewable electric, hybrid technology and especially solar. But, simply throwing $90 billion at unvetted and largely, thus far, unsuccessful companies doesn't seem like an investment, it seems like a hastily made, politically motivated poor decision that has proved far more wasteful than productive to this point. I hope I eat my words, if for no other reason than to see this money and these companies produce results, but the likelihood of that is marginal.

Aside from that, this was never an "investment" in research, which it seems like you have been confused into believing, and seem to be making an argument for, with which I would have less qualms. If it were an actual research investment, and not an investment in unvetted, and unproven companies, why then, did the money not go to actual researchers such as Universities which specialize in this sort of thing?

Are they all Green companies? Because that's relevant to the debate. If so; prove it.

I can't tell if you're just trying to get me to waste my time here, but ok:

-Evergreen Solar ($25 million) Solar panel producer
-SpectraWatt ($500,000) Intel-backed solar cell manufacturer
-Solyndra ($535 million) CIGS manufacturer, cylindrical solar cells manufacturer
-Beacon Power ($43 million) Flywheel-based energy storage manufacturer, alternative energy management systems
-EnerDel’s subsidiary Ener1 ($118.5 million) Compact lithium-ion-powered battery manufacturer
-Abound Solar ($400 million) Manufacturer of cadmium telluride thin-film photovoltaic (Thin-film solar cells)
-A123 Systems ($279 million) Manufactures advanced lithium-ion (lithium iron phosphate) batteries and battery systems
-Willard and Kelsey Solar Group ($700,981) Large-scale producers of solar panels
-Raser Technologies ($33 million) Developer of plug-in/hybrid car technology, such as the AC induction motor; Proposed a zero-emissions geothermal power plant prior to bankruptcy.
-Energy Conversion Devices ($13.3 million) Producer of thin, PV, flexible solar panels
-Mountain Plaza, Inc. ($2 million) EPA grant approved for the proposed installation of electrical hookups at truck stops to lower diesel emissions from big-rigs.
-Olsen’s Crop Service and Olsen’s Mills Acquisition Company ($10 million) Large-scale ethanol producers
-Range Fuels ($80 million) Tried to develop a technology that converted biomass into ethanol without the use of enzymes
-Thompson River Power ($6.5 million) Contract to convert a coal-fired plant to burn wood, therefore a renewable source of energy
-Stirling Energy Systems ($7 million) Producers of parabolic dish and Stirling engine solar technology
-Azure Dynamics ($5.4 million) Development and integration of proprietary electric and hybrid electric drive technology (Incorporated in Canada)
-Nordic Windpower ($16 million) Manufacturer of wind turbines (Founded in Sweden)
-Satcon ($3 million) Manufacturer of solar inverters, converts DC power to PV or photovalic power
-Konarka Technologies Inc. ($20 million) Developers of "organic" solar cells

So yes, long story short, these are all companies that would be and were considered "green" companies. Even if in reality they weren't, they were all real, actual, documented benefactors of Obama's "Green Jobs" policies, so it would have been his, someone in his administration's, or the EPA's decision to both label and justify them as "Green," not mine.

 

[xfire]

I can't tell if you're just trying to get me to waste my time here, but ok:

You didn't provide any links, why should anyone believe that shit?

 

[PlumpRump]

You didn't provide any links, why should anyone believe that shit?

Well I was going to, but your favorite 17-year-old Tumblr blogger wouldn't give me the link. Get a life You Middle-aged loser.

 

[xfire]

Well I was going to, but your favorite 17-year-old Tumblr blogger wouldn't give me the link. Get a life You Middle-aged loser.

Troll.

 

[Mayhem]

Green energy needs to be invested in. Plain and simple. If some of these companies go bankrupt, it's too bad. I'm not being cavalier about this, but nothing nets a 100% success rate. These things are going to happen and the green/aternative energy industry needs help.

This continuous crowing by the Right is ridiculous. They sum lost in green/alt energy companies is a change jar compared to the "investment" made in Iraq. What have we spent on that, and what return have we received on our "investment"?

I don't mind you bringing up Solyndra, et al. It's a valid point. But climb down off your high horse about it. When the Left invests and it fails, we lose money. When the Right invests and fails, we lose lives and wreck many more.

 

[Sam Fisher]

Fuck that green energy. Let's make use of our oil resources right her in North America.

 

[Sam Fisher]

The facts speak for themselves.

 

[Mayhem]

It's not about what's available, it's about the pollution that petroleum and coal cause.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_impact_of_the_petroleum_industry#Acid_rain

Toxicity
Crude oil is a mixture of many different kinds of organic compounds, many of which are highly toxic and cancer causing (carcinogenic). Oil is "acutely lethal" to fish, that is it kills fish quickly, at a concentration of 4000 parts per million (ppm)[1] (0.4%). Crude oil and petroleum distillates cause birth defects.[2]

Benzene is present in both crude oil and gasoline and is known to cause leukemia in humans.[3] The compound is also known to lower the white blood cell count in humans, which would leave people exposed to it more susceptible to infections.[3] "Studies have linked benzene exposure in the mere parts per billion (ppb) range to terminal leukemia, Hodgkins lymphoma, and other blood and immune system diseases within 5-15 years of exposure."[4]

Exhaust
When oil or petroleum distillates are burned (see combustion), usually the combustion is not complete. This means that incompletely burned compounds are created in addition to just water and carbon dioxide. The other compounds are often toxic to life. Examples are carbon monoxide and methanol. Also, fine particulates of soot blacken humans' and other animals' lungs and cause heart problems or death. Soot is cancer causing (carcinogenic).
Acid rain
High temperatures created by the combustion of petroleum cause nitrogen gas in the surrounding air to oxidize, creating nitrous oxides. Nitrous oxides, along with sulfur dioxide from the sulfur in the oil, combine with water in the atmosphere to create acid rain. Acid rain causes many problems such as dead trees and acidified lakes with dead fish. Coral reefs in the world's oceans are killed by acidic water caused by acid rain.

Acid rain leads to increased corrosion of machinery and structures (large amounts of capital), and to the slow destruction of important archaeological structures like the marble ruins in Rome and Greece.

Climate change
Humans burning large amounts of petroleum create large amounts of CO2 (carbon dioxide) gas that traps heat in the earth's atmosphere. Also someone organic compounds, such as methane released from petroleum drilling or from the petroleum itself, trap heat several times more efficiently than CO2. Soot blocks the sun from reaching the earth and could cause cooling of the earth's atmosphere.

Oil spills
An oil spill is the release of a liquid petroleum hydrocarbon into the environment, especially marine areas, due to human activity, and is a form of pollution. The term is usually applied to marine oil spills, where oil is released into the ocean or coastal waters, but spills may also occur on land. Oil spills may be due to releases of crude oil from tankers, offshore platforms, drilling rigs and wells, as well as spills of refined petroleum products (such as gasoline, diesel) and their by-products, heavier fuels used by large ships such as bunker fuel, or the spill of any oily refuse or waste oil.

Major oil spills include the Kuwaiti oil fires, Kuwaiti oil lakes, Lakeview Gusher, Gulf War oil spill, and the Deepwater Horizon oil spill. Spilt oil penetrates into the structure of the plumage of birds and the fur of mammals, reducing its insulating ability, and making them more vulnerable to temperature fluctuations and much less buoyant in the water. Cleanup and recovery from an oil spill is difficult and depends upon many factors, including the type of oil spilled, the temperature of the water (affecting evaporation and biodegradation), and the types of shorelines and beaches involved.[5] Spills may take weeks, months or even years to clean up.[6]

Volatile organic compounds
Volatile organic compounds (VOCs) are gases or vapours emitted by various solids and liquids, many of which have short- and long-term adverse effects on human health and the environment. VOCs from petroleum are toxic and foul the air, and some like benzene are extremely toxic, carcinogenic and cause DNA damage. Benzene often makes up about 1% of crude oil and gasoline. Benzene is present in automobile exhaust.

Waste oil in the form of motor oil
Waste oil is used oil containing breakdown products and impurities from use. Some examples of waste oil are used oils such as hydraulic oil, transmission oil, brake fluids, motor oil, crankcase oil, gear box oil and synthetic oil.[7] Many of the same problems associated with natural petroleum exist with waste oil. When waste oil from vehicles drips out engines over streets and roads, the oil travels into the water table bringing with it such toxins as benzene. This poisons both soil and drinking water. Runoff from storms carries waste oil into rivers and oceans, poisoning them as well.

Now, I know that you take great pride in not giving a damn about anything or anyone, but the rest of us aren't anywhere near your level of ignorance. Therefore, we see the damage that petrol and coal cause and we want it to stop.

 

[Sam Fisher]

Now, I know that you take great pride in not giving a damn about anything or anyone, but the rest of us aren't anywhere near your level of ignorance. Therefore, we see the damage that petrol and coal cause and we want it to stop.

When someone figures out how to lift-off an airliner and sustain said flight on something other than fossil fuel, then and only then will you have an argument for . Until then, it's bullshit.

Or, how about doing your part (to save the world) and stop driving a vehicle with an internal combustion engine that runs on fossil fuel.

Or, encourage all your neighbors to get rid of their gasoline powered lawn mowers and use the old fashioned push mower with the revolving blades.

Or, stop using an outdoor grill and encourage all your neighbors to do the same.

Or, look at this link http://scaleofuniverse.com/ and get it in your head that comparatively, our tiny little spec of a world is meaningless in the big scheme of things.

Or, do absolutely nothing and enjoy life.

 

[Mayhem]

When someone figures out how to lift-off an airliner and sustain said flight on something other than fossil fuel, then and only then will you have an argument for . Until then, it's bullshit.

Or, how about doing your part (to save the world) and stop driving a vehicle with an internal combustion engine that runs on fossil fuel.

Or, encourage all your neighbors to get rid of their gasoline powered lawn mowers and use the old fashioned push mower with the revolving blades.

Or, stop using an outdoor grill and encourage all your neighbors to do the same.

Or, look at this link http://scaleofuniverse.com/ and get it in your head that comparatively, our tiny little spec of a world is meaningless in the big scheme of things.

Or, do absolutely nothing and enjoy life.

You really do go completely out of your way to be stupid, don't you. What does the "rest of the universe" mean in this discussion? We have finite air to breathe, we have finite water to drink and make use of. We have a limited number of fish in the sea. Again, what does the rest of the universe have to do with any of this? Moron.

And you use your same argument of deflection, just like you do over your lack of military service. Want me to stop using gasoline in my car and yard equipment? So do I, doofus. That's my point. You would see this if you were intelligent enough to grasp basic reading comprehension. I am making the point that we need to support green technology so we can do the exact thing you are suggesting. I want to figure out how to make planes fly without carbon emissions. It's willfully ignorant people like you that get in the way.

Or, do absolutely nothing and enjoy life.

And that, right there, is the definition of Sam Fisher. Do absolutely nothing but get in the way. And you succeed beyond your wildest dreams.

 

[STDiva]

You really do go completely out of your way to be stupid, don't you. What does the "rest of the universe" mean in this discussion? We have finite air to breathe, we have finite water to drink and make use of. We have a limited number of fish in the sea. Again, what does the rest of the universe have to do with any of this? Moron.

And you use your same argument of deflection, just like you do over your lack of military service. Want me to stop using gasoline in my car and yard equipment? So do I, doofus. That's my point. You would see this if you were intelligent enough to grasp basic reading comprehension. I am making the point that we need to support green technology so we can do the exact thing you are suggesting. I want to figure out how to make planes fly without carbon emissions. It's willfully ignorant people like you that get in the way.

Don't you get it? We don't matter. We are small. The universe is big. Why develop green tech when we can enjoy life instead? The only way to enjoy life is with a complete disregard for our planet and future. Have you seen this link? http://scaleofuniverse.com/ ??? Nothing we do matters anyway, Mayhem. Don't you get it?