Let's see if you gun nuts still support the "Stand Your Ground" law...

[Rattrap]

common sense and logic should be plenty of evidence.

They are not.

A person with a gun firing into a crowd of people without a gun has nothing to fear. If he opened fire and suddenly bullets were zipping by his head he wouldn't be quite so bold now would he? he would have to hide and take cover which would take away his ability to fire into the mass of people.

This assumes a great deal of rationality on part of the shooter, which is not a given.

There are real life examples of that. That as soon as a mad gunman is confronted by someone who is armed the massacre stops, he retreats and/or takes his own life.

Source?

I'm asking honestly, not to be confrontational. The argument that more guns creates safer conditions (i.e., less crime/injury/fatalities) because of the examples you're positing is one of the biggest for gun proliferation. If it is factually supported, I'd personally be swayed. However, most of the statistics I've seen suggests otherwise (from the US and abroad) - but I'm no statistician (though enough to know that there's more to it than the information I've seen) and I know most analyses will be heavily biased to one side or the other. This is not a question that can be adequately answered by hypotheticals.

 

[georges]

Finland has a compulsory military service so I've shot quite a few times with weapons.

Have you been in the military?

I haven't been in the army but I have been shooting firearms since I am 12 and I have shot far more firearms than you during your whole compulsory service. Tell me or remember me what is your best group at a distance of 500m with a rifle and at 50m with a hand gun? I will tell you mine at 500m with a m1a super match semi auto cal 308 Nato rifle fitted with m4 scope and loaded with black hills ammo, 3 inches on 3 inches group and at 50m with para ord p14-45 or with a bren ten , I got a 1 1/2 inch on 1 1/2 inch group with norma and corbon ammo. Good aim, excellent day/night vision and fast trigger pull are decisive when you are in combat or when you have to defend your home.

 

[raimmi]

There are two different cultures clashing on each other european vs american (usa).

There is no reason to force your own opinions to each other. How about respecting each other and stop fighting like in every politics thread?

 

[assari]

ok assari if you were in your home and heard glass break. you looked down the stairs and saw 2 men with guns in your home what would YOU do? I would blast them both with my mossberg 12 gauge. i wouldnt give them a chance to use their guns because I would use mine first.

without a gun in that situation please, tell me how YOUR outcome would be better than mine.

Ok Mariah, I think that running away or give the money willingly would be the best solution in such a situation

That not sound heroic, but which one is more important; money or life.

It would be great to say that I could get the situation under control with karate, but that happens only in the movies. :1orglaugh

Are you sure that you'd be faster than the two armed man?

 

[sean miguel]

There are real life examples of that. That as soon as a mad gunman is confronted by someone who is armed the massacre stops, he retreats and/or takes his own life.

Source?

I'm asking honestly, not to be confrontational. The argument that more guns creates safer conditions (i.e., less crime/injury/fatalities) because of the examples you're positing is one of the biggest for gun proliferation. If it is factually supported, I'd personally be swayed. However, most of the statistics I've seen suggests otherwise (from the US and abroad) - but I'm no statistician (though enough to know that there's more to it than the information I've seen) and I know most analyses will be heavily biased to one side or the other. This is not a question that can be adequately answered by hypotheticals.

2007 New Life Church Colorado Springs, Colorado - A day after killing two others, 24-year-old Matthew Murray went to New Life Church and shot and killed 2 teenage sisters in the parking lot and wounded several others in the church before a concealed carry member of the church acting as security (think George Zimmerman) returned fire hitting him multiple times. He then turned the gun on himself. The pastor of the church stated that Assam shot Murray before he entered 50 feet (15 m) inside the building, after she encountered him in the hallway, and that Assam probably saved "over 100 lives."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Colorado_YWAM_and_New_Life_shootings


1997 Pearl High School Pearl, Mississippi- a 16-year-old Luke Woodham, after murdering his mother (sound familiar?) went to the high school and murdered 2 and wounded 7 others. The assistant principal retrieved a .45 semiautomatic handgun from his vehicle and confronted and stopped the shooter as he crossed the street to a middle school.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pearl_High_School_shooting


2002 Appalachian School of Law Grundy, Virginia - 43-year-old Peter Odighizuwa. Killed 3 and wounded 3 others before being confronted by 2 armed students who ran to their vehicles and retrieved their firearms at the first sounds of gunfire. He was subdued by a third student.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pearl_High_School_shooting

 

[assari]

I haven't been in the army but I have been shooting firearms since I am 12 and I have shot far more firearms than you during your whole compulsory service. Tell me or remember me what is your best group at a distance of 500m with a rifle and at 50m with a hand gun?

I do not remember the result anymore, but I was probably a mediocre shooter.

Guns do not interest me so much that I would have tried more.

 

[assari]

There are two different cultures clashing on each other european vs american (usa).

There is no reason to force your own opinions to each other.

This is a cultural issue.

We do not understand why USA is level of development country in terms of safety and they do not realize that other countries can be so calm that you can left the door open when you go to work.

 

[Mariahxxx]

dude, what if they aren't there just for money? what if one of them likes the look of the woman you have there? (coughing, choking) and decides he wants to fuck her?

what if they already have 2 strikes and one more gets them life in prison so they can't leave witnesses? when people force themselves into an occupied home there is more to their motive than robbery.


and yes common sense and logic say that the best defense from a person with a gun is to have a gun. so you gonna defend yourself with a stick? a baseball bat? a fly swatter? let me know how that turns out.

 

[Mariahxxx]

an armed society is a polite society.

PEOPLE ARE FAR LESS LIKELY TO ASSAULT SOMEONE WHO CAN FIGHT BACK WITH EQUAL OR GREATER FORCE! THAT IS SIMPLE LOGIC

 

[sean miguel]

This is a cultural issue.

We do not understand why USA is level of development country in terms of safety and they do not realize that other countries can be so calm that you can left the door open when you go to work.

That's true. I lived in Japan for 6 years. This is no exaggeration; you could leave your front door open overnight and not have to worry about someone coming in other than a concerned neighbor. It ultimately comes down to the human condition but culture plays a big part. We have a lot of bad, bad people in the U.S. who place no value on human life.

 

[georges]

Re: Let's see if you gun nuts still support the "Stand Your Ground" law...

an armed society is a polite society.

PEOPLE ARE FAR LESS LIKELY TO ASSAULT SOMEONE WHO CAN FIGHT BACK WITH EQUAL OR GREATER FORCE! THAT IS SIMPLE LOGIC

Amen to that :clap::thumbsup:

- - - Updated - - -

That's true. I lived in Japan for 6 years. This is no exaggeration; you could leave your front door open overnight and not have to worry about someone coming in other than a concerned neighbor. It ultimately comes down to the human condition but culture plays a big part. We have a lot of bad, bad people in the U.S. who place no value on human life.

I agree with you :yesyes:

 

[assari]

dude, what if they aren't there just for money?

I understand your point and if I live in America I might also have gun.

My point was that when you own a gun it does not automaticly make you invulnerable.

 

[Mr. Daystar]

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

Depends on the clip you've got loaded, you balless wonder. But plenty of evidence...you should see my range targets.
Ratcrap doesn't seem to know much about firearms, or anything else too relevant.
.
But I'm willing to bet that every gun owner with few exceptions has run at least 300 to 1000 rounds through each of their weapons, and concealed carry so they can be ready if it's needed...sounds like some wacko unloading in a closed movie theater would qualify.
And in the dark, even if partly blinded by muzzle flash, the same muzzle flash would make it easy to know where to point and unload.
I'd be sweating and adrenaline rushing, and probably wouldn't remember just when my kill machine made it to my hand; but it would be so automatic he would've gone down weighing a few pounds more than when he came in.
I always assume if the theater hadn't had a prohibition on CCPs there would've been more than just one carrier.

It doesn't work like that. When you're in a situation, your brain slows things down, and the report of the gun, or the muzzle flash, don't effect you like they do when you're at the range. The noise doesn't make your ears ring, the flash doesn't blind you...your brain compensates, and the adrenalin puts you in a different place.

common sense and logic should be plenty of evidence. A person with a gun firing into a crowd of people without a gun has nothing to fear. If he opened fire and suddenly bullets were zipping by his head he wouldn't be quite so bold now would he? he would have to hide and take cover which would take away his ability to fire into the mass of people.

A person doing that kind of thing, won't take cover...a soldier would, someone in a rational mindset. A person that's snapped won't...they might go on the move, because they realize it's harder to hit someone on the move, but they won't hide, they'll face the bullets, and go down taking as many as they can,

 

[Philbert]

See animus Fox's post.
Also, a range is well lit, a movie theater is very low light. Muzzle flash from a AR15 would zap your eyes.



Columbine they stopped when the armed guys showed up.
Other shooters have laid down their weapons or shot themselves when confronted with armed people.

I know how I work under sudden stress, and it's not conscious but automatic.
I drink coffee to calm it down, as I have higher adrenaline levels than many people.
I do things under sudden stress that I wouldn't do as fast or well in calmer circumstances, on autopilot as it were.
So I don't think you can make a general statement how people react in stress moments...

I used to wear a Buck Damascus folder upside down in a sheath...I could open it one handed and use it fairly quickly.
Once late at night I was walking back to my house after a night socializing, it was late, and dark.
A large dog came rushing out of the dark right at me, and before I had time to freak I was crouched and my very sharp knife was in my hand fully open and I was ready to tear it up.
He stopped, backed up, and left without even growling.
Normally I'm not that fast...I felt nothing but afterwards I was sweating and heart was pounding...adrenaline rush aftereffects.

 

[Mr. Daystar]

See animus Fox's post.
Also, a range is well lit, a movie theater is very low light. Muzzle flash from a AR15 would zap your eyes.



Columbine they stopped when the armed guys showed up.
Other shooters have laid down their weapons or shot themselves when confronted with armed people.

Muzzle flash, and report will not effect you under the stress of the situation...your brain adjusts for that...it's like a fog of war type thing. However, it never hurts to put a few rounds through your gun, in low light, without hearing protection, just so you know what it could be like.

Most spree killers, or madmen that just snap, do bail, or go out the hard way...they;re cowards, that's why they attack unarmed people the way they do.

 

[Ace Boobtoucher]

Stand your ground laws fucking rule.