I'm not questioning what you stated earlier, I was just pointing out that the fact the psychological addiction is way worse than any physical addiction as far as withdrawal goes (with the exception of chronic alcoholics).
Legalize illegal drugs?
- Thread starter McRocket
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foxycougar said:
I must concede that I've not done any research into this topic personally. My earlier remarks were a paraphrase of something I remember seeing on TV years ago, though I forget the source. The person said something along the lines of, "It's harder to stop smoking than it is to break a cocaine habit."
:dunno:
Not quite but it's close (in animal models, anyway)
Neromak said:
Fair enough. But what about those that are already addicted? Would you rather organized crime got their money; upwards of $90+ billion per year (more then the U.S. is spending per year in the war in Iraq, I believe); or U.S. taxpayers? (though the latter would only get a fraction of that figure because of the cheapness of the legal drugs)
Also, organized crime would undoubtedly be hugely damaged.
I mean if drugs are being sold legally in 'drug clubs' at 1/10th what they are presently sold on the street for; who would buy it on the street? It would still be illegal on the street, so the street price should not go down too much. Certainly not to what the 'legal' price would be in the 'clubs'. This would rob the drug cartels of at least $50 billion dollars annually.
Also it could,
-cut down on major, drug related robberies and violence. (whose gonna knife someone for $5 so they can get high for 3 hours, if drugs were legal?)
-almost certainly cut down on prostitution.
-no more (or vastly fewer) drug dealers.
-less people in jail at tax payers expense for simple drug possession (do you know - as far as I am aware - that if you got caught just three seperate times with 5 grams of crack cocaine - not enough to get high for a day for a hardcore user - that under federal law you would get life in prison? Not for selling it. Just possessing it.)
-more police resources dedicated to 'hard' crimes?
I don't expect to change your mind. But I hope you will consider what I typed.
I doubt it - but I hope.
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Brino said:
tons of people ARE already addicted to it. just because you legalize it doesn't mean everyone wants to consume it - they won't be selling it in the mall at a discount, you know.
no street dealer would ever point out the dangers to you, but in distribution centers they certainly would. as i already explained: legalization would trigger a better drug education, so we would definitely NOT have more addicts.
take tobacco for example: in the last couple of years governments all around the world have started anti-smoking campaigns (which is nothing else but drug education), and the result is that countless people have stopped smoking, because now they're aware of the severe risks.
all these kids that are consuming hard drugs have never been properly educated. if we changed that we would certainly have less addicts out there.
but this is only possible by totally controlling the distribution, which is, again, only possible if you legalize drugs - otherwise people will always take the shitty and expensive stuff from their street-dealer.
do you now realize the problem with illegality ?!
Just because their educated in the dangers of drugs doesn't mean that they won't do it. Most if not all Tobacco smokers know that smoking is bad for their health but they still do it, because their addicted. It would be the same with illegal drugs except instead of having a bunch of people die from cancer they would die from an overdose or something like that. Addiction transcends education. Beisdes, I'm willing to bet that most people know of the dangers of hardcore drugs but still do them.
anobody
Banned
end of the day people who want to take drugs, will do
why not stop the money going to drug dealers and it ending up in god knows what scenarios, and have it properly regulated
the users will still be users but you cut out a whole lot of other crime
if people are fucking stupid enough to get messed up in that shit let them
why not stop the money going to drug dealers and it ending up in god knows what scenarios, and have it properly regulated
the users will still be users but you cut out a whole lot of other crime
if people are fucking stupid enough to get messed up in that shit let them
Brino said:
not true. remember the tobacco industry scandals in the late 90's ? before that most people did NOT know of the dangerous effects of cigarettes. they believed that their government would not allow the legal and commercial distribution of a stimulant that might kill you. now, after these events, the number of smokers has reduced significantly !!!
sorry, Brino, but saying that education doesn't help is a little bit ignorant. you also think that educating youngsters concerning safer sex wouldn't help preventing AIDS or unintentional pregnancy ? of course you won't be able to persuade EVERYONE not to take hard drugs, but even if you can only convince half of these people, it still would be a major improvement of the actual drug situation.
"Addiction transcends education" not if you educate people properly before they become addicted !!! if you're referring to those people who give a fuck about their health, anyway.....well, they will always exist, whether drugs are illegal or not. and they WILL take drugs - no matter what the law says. so wouldn't you prefer to have these guys consume clean stuff at a price they can afford, without driving themselves to the edge of society ?! well, i definitely would.
the last remark in your post showed me that you have no personal experience concering the drug issue (no offence here, honestly ! please note that i'm talking about experience, not knowledge). i've worked in a drug aid center for juveniles for a year, and i can assure you that some 90% of these kids have no clue about what they're dealing with. everyone who worked in a similar institute will confirm that.
and please note that drug education is not defined by a policeman walking into a classroom saying "hey kids. drugs are real bad !" you have to do that with a little bit more finesse in order to be successfull.
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lordraven said:
Basically, that is a large portion of my point (why I am for legalization). Users are going to use it no matter what. So we might as well make the best of it. Burying your head in the sand and hoping it will go away if you just throw enough money at it (as regulators seem to do) is, imo, clearly not working. What do we have to lose?
Are people going to be running down to their local 'drug clubs' once they open, desperate to try crack or heroin for the first time? I strongly believe that most people who start those two awful drugs started because a) someone put them up to it (for some reason) or b) because they weren't really sure what it was or what it would do to them; or probably both actually.
Also, make sure that if your start a 'drug club' that you have it sectioned off. The hardcore users (crack, heroin maybe crystal meth) would have a seperate, cordened off section. While the 'lighter' drugs would have another section(s) so as to avoid the 'here, try this. It's great' crap you might have at a party or on the 'street'.
LetoII said:
I will admit that I don't have much personal expierence with drugs but I still stand behind what I said. I refuse to beleive that the majority of people who take illegal drugs don't know how dangerous they are. They gotta know that their illegal for a reason and if they don't know how dangerous they are then their just plain ignorant. You see it all the time in movies and on TV, some drug addict gets addicted and Od's and dies. I refuse to believe that after all the exposure drugs get people still don't know how dangerous they are. The way I see it is that if a drug does any serious harm to the body or mind then it shouldn't be legal and that includes Tobacco and Alcohol.
Brino said:
While I don't necessarily disagree - or agree - with either one of your posts (Brito & LetoII), let me just point out something related, yet not wholly related, that came to mind after I read your quote, Brino:
Brino said:
I'm a smoker. I've been smoking since I was 14; I'm 34 now, soon to be 35. I started off smoking regualr, non-filtered Camels & Pall-Malls. After several years' worth of severe bronchitis attacks, my doctor suggested I switch to Menthols if I absolutely had to smoke. He emphasized quitting as all doctors would do. I didn't listen. I've been smoking Salem 100's for almost fifteen years now. I still have Bronchitis attacks... though not as frequent, but just as severe. I'm highly intelligent... or at least, I like to think I am. I'm well aware of what smoking does to me, yet I continue to smoke. I've tried quitting previously; longest I lasted was for a year and a half. I enjoy smoking cigarettes and cigars. I know the side effects. I know how nasty my breath smells. I know how nasty my clothes smell. I'm aware of all the negative connotations that surround smoking... yet I still smoke. Why? Simple answer: I am addicted to it. I know how dangerous it is... yet I still do it regardless.
I drink, but only in moderation. I've come home many a night drunk off my ass like most of us have; puking in the toilet and begging God to just stop the room from spinning. Yet, I used to do it over and over and over when I was younger. I have even driven a car while highly intoxicated... something of which I'm not proud of having done. Yet... I did it anyway. At least three times that I know of. I know how dangerous excessive alcohol can be... yet I'm as guilty of doing it as other people. I no longer drink to excess, though, simply because I have no desire to accidentally hurt or kill someone. I'm intelligent enough to understand and comprehend that what I've done is wrong and that alcohol impairs cognitive reasoning and motor skills.... yet I've done it.
WHY? Both products are addictive...highly addictive with regards to cigarette smoking. Yet... millions of people indulge in both of these vices every single day. Cigarettes have been banned from television; yet, alcohol ads remain. If both substances are as unhealthy and addictive as they are purported to be, why do rational - and therefore seemingly intelligent - people ignore all the warnings, facts, and figures that are associated with both low-end gateway vices?
People make a conscious choice, guys, to indulge in whatever they so desire. Granted, the illustrations I used are simplistic, at best... but you get the idea. People who are addicted to drugs - some, not all - are undoubtedly aware of the harm that they are causing their bodies, yet the fixation - the dependency for that drug - is so great that it exceeds any means of rational thinking or cognitive reasoning deduction. They do anything to feed that hunger. GOOD people - strong, moralistic people with ideal ethics - are just as susceptible, if not more so, to the lure of drug use and its subsequent addiction. They develop hubris... "Oh, I know what such 'n' such drug can do. I won't get addicted... that's something the ignorant, unwashed masses do. I can handle it."
With legalized drug use - and all that that entails - people would be better educated, less likely to develop an addiction that destroys their lives, etc. While I still can't say if it's the best idea in the world, I do know that something has to be done. How sad it is to sit in your home, looking out of the window, and seeing children selling drugs on the street corner just so they can survive? How sad is it to watch a young mother, pregnant with her first child, sit in a public health clinic and be treated for crack addiction?
Something - anything - has to be done.
These are just my opinions and insights.
Let me first say that I'm sorry to hear about your addiction and I wish you all the best QBall.
I just have to ask this question to whomever it may concern, Do you believe that if Tobacco and Alcohol hadn't been made legal that there would still be as many users of these substances today?
I just have to ask this question to whomever it may concern, Do you believe that if Tobacco and Alcohol hadn't been made legal that there would still be as many users of these substances today?
The sentiments are appreciated... but the "addiction" I suffer from is nothing that I can't prevent if I wanted to. It's also nothing compared to the entire point of this thread... it's not even in the same league in my opinion. I wholeheartedly believe that controlled substance abuse and addiction is a much more urgent issue than cigarette or alcohole abuse.
But I still appreciate the sentiment nonetheless.
But I still appreciate the sentiment nonetheless.
Brino said:
I think if you asked the average smoker, "At what age did you start smoking?" you'd see that the vast majority of them started in their early teens. They may or may not know what they're getting into at that age, and, even if they do know, the peer pressure is so high at that time that it's difficult to resist.
Plus, we all did dumb things at that age. :o
no flat out. Why? because a lot of my mates do all kinds of shit and they are completely different people now, and it sucks that if they want to have a personality or 'fun' to be with they have to be high or what not.
for me i would much rather fuck up my liver with drinking than do drugs for me! :o
just my opinion though
for me i would much rather fuck up my liver with drinking than do drugs for me! :o
just my opinion though
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