Legalize illegal drugs?

[McRocket]

Let me first say that I'm sorry to hear about your addiction and I wish you all the best QBall.

I just have to ask this question to whomever it may concern, Do you believe that if Tobacco and Alcohol hadn't been made legal that there would still be as many users of these substances today?

Well, there was Prohibition. From 1920 to 1933 it was illegal to sell (or consume?) alcohol in the United States. And it was (imo) a large failure for many reasons. Although consumption of alcohol apparently went down at first. People turned to other more dangerous means to 'relax'. Illegal bars popped up all over and alcohol was being made by all kinds of sources and with all kinds of quality - some of which was inevitably dangerous. A large source of tax revenue was lost to the taxpayers. And perhaps worst of all - it gave a giant kickstart to organized crime. Jails became filled up with people who simply consumed/or sold alcohol. Sounds a lot like today's drug problems to me.
Whenever you make something that is in great demand illegal. All that seems to do is start a black market for that product.

BTW I hesitated to bring this up for fear that it would taint this thread. But I was a crack user. From 1999 until November 15, 2001 I was a hardcore crack user. I was never in the gutter or anything as I was in the stock market bigtime and making piles of money - until the market bottomed out, anyway.
The first time I started was when a 'friend' handed me a pipe and suggested I try it. I assumed it was some sort of fairly mild drug. I had no idea it was crack. I was 36 years old, highly intelligent (though obviously not wise) and had been around a bit. But I still was unaware that crack was just cocaine mixed with baking soda and cooked for a few minutes. And that you smoke it.
I had snorted cocaine a few times and found it to be similar to booze without the stammering. I knew cocaine and crack were like night and day. And I was right. Coke is bad, but crack is a nightmare.
Anyway, I knew crack was REALLY bad and I never would have taken it (I assume) had I known what it was. (an old saying I heard somewhere was: pot smokers are afraid of coke. Coke sniffers are afraid of crack. Crackheads are afraid of heroin. And heroin users are afraid of heroin) But from the first time I got my first real 'ear ring' (a crack term), I knew I was fucked. I knew it. And I was. My 'friend' deliberately got me started (so I assume) because I had money and he didn't and if he got me hooked then he could share in all the drugs that I bought to satisfy my cravings. And he was absolutely right because that is exactly what happened. I never sold it (I never needed to). And I NEVER shared it with anyone I even remotely suspected had not tried it before. And it took me 2 1/2+ years to quit. I finally quit on my own after I moved away from all my sources.
Now I am not espousing drugs should be legal for my sake. I, personally, would hate it if they became legal. Why? Because if they were legal and cheap, I would probably go back on it. At least for a period of time. Crack is not physically addictive. But it is emotionally addictive. Why would I not go back on something that made me feel better then I ever have in my life, if I could? So I don't think it would be good for me. But, I think it would be good for all of those people out there who get handed something, not knowing what it was, and take it in thier lungs and instantly change their lives forever - for the worse. I think it would be good for all the reasons I mentioned above when I started this thread.
And I guarantee you that I never would have started it had these 'drug clubs' been around. Because 1) there would be little of it on the street and there would be no way I would knowingly walk into a crack room before I tried it the first time. And 2) I bet you there would be more education about it - which can only be good.

 

[LetoII]

Well, there was Prohibition. From 1920 to 1933 it was illegal to sell (or consume?) alcohol in the United States. And it was (imo) a large failure for many reasons. Although consumption of alcohol apparently went down at first. People turned to other more dangerous means to 'relax'. Illegal bars popped up all over and alcohol was being made by all kinds of sources and with all kinds of quality - some of which was inevitably dangerous. A large source of tax revenue was lost to the taxpayers. And perhaps worst of all - it gave a giant kickstart to organized crime. Jails became filled up with people who simply consumed/or sold alcohol. Sounds a lot like today's drug problems to me.
Whenever you make something that is in great demand illegal. All that seems to do is start a black market for that product.

BTW I hesitated to bring this up for fear that it would taint this thread. But I was a crack user. From 1999 until November 15, 2001 I was a hardcore crack user. I was never in the gutter or anything as I was in the stock market bigtime and making piles of money - until the market bottomed out, anyway.
The first time I started was when a 'friend' handed me a pipe and suggested I try it. I assumed it was some sort of fairly mild drug. I had no idea it was crack. I was 36 years old, highly intelligent (though obviously not wise) and had been around a bit. But I still was unaware that crack was just cocaine mixed with baking soda and cooked for a few minutes. And that you smoke it.
I had snorted cocaine a few times and found it to be similar to booze without the stammering. I knew cocaine and crack were like night and day. And I was right. Coke is bad, but crack is a nightmare.
Anyway, I knew crack was REALLY bad and I never would have taken it (I assume) had I known what it was. (an old saying I heard somewhere was: pot smokers are afraid of coke. Coke sniffers are afraid of crack. Crackheads are afraid of heroin. And heroin users are afraid of heroin) But from the first time I got my first real 'ear ring' (a crack term), I knew I was fucked. I knew it. And I was. My 'friend' deliberately got me started (so I assume) because I had money and he didn't and if he got me hooked then he could share in all the drugs that I bought to satisfy my cravings. And he was absolutely right because that is exactly what happened. I never sold it (I never needed to). And I NEVER shared it with anyone I even remotely suspected had not tried it before. And it took me 2 1/2+ years to quit. I finally quit on my own after I moved away from all my sources.
Now I am not espousing drugs should be legal for my sake. I, personally, would hate it if they became legal. Why? Because if they were legal and cheap, I would probably go back on it. At least for a period of time. Crack is not physically addictive. But it is emotionally addictive. Why would I not go back on something that made me feel better then I ever have in my life, if I could? So I don't think it would be good for me. But, I think it would be good for all of those people out there who get handed something, not knowing what it was, and take it in thier lungs and instantly change their lives forever - for the worse. I think it would be good for all the reasons I mentioned above when I started this thread.
And I guarantee you that I never would have started it had these 'drug clubs' been around. Because 1) there would be little of it on the street and there would be no way I would knowingly walk into a crack room before I tried it the first time. And 2) I bet you there would be more education about it - which can only be good.

i'm glad you made it, mcrocket. and you have my respect, because i know how hard it is to turn away from crack - not personally, but i've experienced how other people were suffering from crack addiction. i also know that those who got clean will always have to fight the temptation to get hooked again, so once more, i draw my hat to you. and i hope you will keep your strength and willpower for the future.

regards :hatsoff:

 

[McRocket]

i'm glad you made it, mcrocket. and you have my respect, because i know how hard it is to turn away from crack - not personally, but i've experienced how other people were suffering from crack addiction. i also know that those who got clean will always have to fight the temptation to get hooked again, so once more, i draw my hat to you. and i hope you will keep your strength and willpower for the future.

regards :hatsoff:

Thank you Leto II. Yes, unfortunetly, even if I never partake of crack again; I will always be a crackhead. Once a crackhead, always a crackhead.

 

[Brino]

I think if you asked the average smoker, "At what age did you start smoking?" you'd see that the vast majority of them started in their early teens. They may or may not know what they're getting into at that age, and, even if they do know, the peer pressure is so high at that time that it's difficult to resist.

Plus, we all did dumb things at that age. :o

I realize that but my point was not when they started smoking. Many teens who start to smoke end up realizing later on how bad it is for their health but by then it's too late because their already addicted.

 

[Brino]

Well, there was Prohibition. From 1920 to 1933 it was illegal to sell (or consume?) alcohol in the United States. And it was (imo) a large failure for many reasons. Although consumption of alcohol apparently went down at first. People turned to other more dangerous means to 'relax'. Illegal bars popped up all over and alcohol was being made by all kinds of sources and with all kinds of quality - some of which was inevitably dangerous. A large source of tax revenue was lost to the taxpayers. And perhaps worst of all - it gave a giant kickstart to organized crime. Jails became filled up with people who simply consumed/or sold alcohol. Sounds a lot like today's drug problems to me.
Whenever you make something that is in great demand illegal. All that seems to do is start a black market for that product.

BTW I hesitated to bring this up for fear that it would taint this thread. But I was a crack user. From 1999 until November 15, 2001 I was a hardcore crack user. I was never in the gutter or anything as I was in the stock market bigtime and making piles of money - until the market bottomed out, anyway.
The first time I started was when a 'friend' handed me a pipe and suggested I try it. I assumed it was some sort of fairly mild drug. I had no idea it was crack. I was 36 years old, highly intelligent (though obviously not wise) and had been around a bit. But I still was unaware that crack was just cocaine mixed with baking soda and cooked for a few minutes. And that you smoke it.
I had snorted cocaine a few times and found it to be similar to booze without the stammering. I knew cocaine and crack were like night and day. And I was right. Coke is bad, but crack is a nightmare.
Anyway, I knew crack was REALLY bad and I never would have taken it (I assume) had I known what it was. (an old saying I heard somewhere was: pot smokers are afraid of coke. Coke sniffers are afraid of crack. Crackheads are afraid of heroin. And heroin users are afraid of heroin) But from the first time I got my first real 'ear ring' (a crack term), I knew I was fucked. I knew it. And I was. My 'friend' deliberately got me started (so I assume) because I had money and he didn't and if he got me hooked then he could share in all the drugs that I bought to satisfy my cravings. And he was absolutely right because that is exactly what happened. I never sold it (I never needed to). And I NEVER shared it with anyone I even remotely suspected had not tried it before. And it took me 2 1/2+ years to quit. I finally quit on my own after I moved away from all my sources.
Now I am not espousing drugs should be legal for my sake. I, personally, would hate it if they became legal. Why? Because if they were legal and cheap, I would probably go back on it. At least for a period of time. Crack is not physically addictive. But it is emotionally addictive. Why would I not go back on something that made me feel better then I ever have in my life, if I could? So I don't think it would be good for me. But, I think it would be good for all of those people out there who get handed something, not knowing what it was, and take it in thier lungs and instantly change their lives forever - for the worse. I think it would be good for all the reasons I mentioned above when I started this thread.
And I guarantee you that I never would have started it had these 'drug clubs' been around. Because 1) there would be little of it on the street and there would be no way I would knowingly walk into a crack room before I tried it the first time. And 2) I bet you there would be more education about it - which can only be good.

Glad to hear you kicked the habit.

About prohibition yes you are correct when you say that many people turned to even more dangerous substances when it was illegal but you have to ask yourself how many didn't? Yes I admit that there would still be those few people who got more dangerous substances illegally but there would also be a large portion of the population who never got addicted in the first place.

What makes you think that there would be little drugs on the street if these clubs existed? I still think there would be a lot of drug users who wouldn't want to go to a club to get high.

If a person really want's to get high then no amount of education will convince them not to.

 

[parker]

I realize that but my point was not when they started smoking. Many teens who start to smoke end up realizing later on how bad it is for their health but by then it's too late because their already addicted.

Yes, I see that now.

mcrocket: Glad to hear you've managed to come back from these problems... I know that is no small feat. :hatsoff:

 

[McRocket]

Glad to hear you kicked the habit.

About prohibition yes you are correct when you say that many people turned to even more dangerous substances when it was illegal but you have to ask yourself how many didn't? Yes I admit that there would still be those few people who got more dangerous substances illegally but there would also be a large portion of the population who never got addicted in the first place.

What makes you think that there would be little drugs on the street if these clubs existed? I still think there would be a lot of drug users who wouldn't want to go to a club to get high.

If a person really want's to get high then no amount of education will convince them not to.

I think there would be few drugs on the street for the very same reason that there is little booze on the street now. I am assuming booze was very expensive during prohibition times. Now look at it. It is cheap. I see no reason why drugs would not be as cheap. Or at least very close to it. And if it got that cheap, there would be no point in selling it on the street because the profit margin would be so small as to not warrant the possible jail time. So it would probably have to be sold at a far more expensive price then it would be in the 'drug clubs' to justify all the hastle.
And if you could get a gram of buyer-beware quality crack on the street at $80 or near pure grade in the club for $10; why would you buy it on the streets? I, as an ex-crack user can tell you that finding good quality stuff on the street was extremely hit-and-miss. And you never knew what the dealer's were mixing with it to 'water' it down to make more profit.

And I understand your point about people will get high if they want to. My point is that almost NO ONE who has never done crack goes looking for it. With all the people I met during my drug days - not once did I ever meet someone away from a crack party who wanted to try it if they had never done anything hard before. You would have to be insane to knowingly start down the crack or heroin or even crystal meth road (the last two I never personally took).
This is a total guess (obviously) on my part. But I would suggest that less then 1% of the people that have ever done a hard drug went looking for it for their first time. Either someone offered it to them or they ended up at the wrong party and they wanted to try the drug that was being passed around, not knowing what it was. If 90-95% of the drugs consumed were at drug clubs; the odds of that happening would (I suspect) be drastically reduced.

And that is another reason how drug clubs would help. I believe there would actually be far less drugs on the 'street' because it would just not be profitable for the dealers. Right now it is extremly easy to get crack considering it is illegal. It got to the point (during my drug days) that I could make a call almost anytime of the day or night and get someone to deliver almost as much as I wanted. I didn't have to move. It was almost like ordering pizza it was that easy.
If I went to a strange city; all I had to do was go to a strip club and ask the dancers. Or, better, call an escort and you can almost always get set up. I went to a small port town (of about 30,000 people) once. I didn't know a soul. I called an escort service and within three hours I was high on crack and stayed high - off and on - for about ten days. I guarantee you if drugs were legalized and sold in 'drug clubs' that that scenario would not be nearly so easy to repeat - if even realistically possible at all.
The bottom line is, drugs are almost everywhere now. How could putting them in drug clubs realistically make things worse?

 

[parker]

I am assuming booze was very expensive during prohibition times.

You couldn't be more right about that. Both Joseph Kennedy and Al Capone amassed fortunes by bootlegging contraband during Prohibition. One went to jail; the other became the patriarch of "America's First Family." You can prolly figure out which was which.

 

[Brino]

I think there would be few drugs on the street for the very same reason that there is little booze on the street now. I am assuming booze was very expensive during prohibition times. Now look at it. It is cheap. I see no reason why drugs would not be as cheap. Or at least very close to it. And if it got that cheap, there would be no point in selling it on the street because the profit margin would be so small as to not warrant the possible jail time. So it would probably have to be sold at a far more expensive price then it would be in the 'drug clubs' to justify all the hastle.
And if you could get a gram of buyer-beware quality crack on the street at $80 or near pure grade in the club for $10; why would you buy it on the streets? I, as an ex-crack user can tell you that finding good quality stuff on the street was extremely hit-and-miss. And you never knew what the dealer's were mixing with it to 'water' it down to make more profit.

And I understand your point about people will get high if they want to. My point is that almost NO ONE who has never done crack goes looking for it. With all the people I met during my drug days - not once did I ever meet someone away from a crack party who wanted to try it if they had never done anything hard before. You would have to be insane to knowingly start down the crack or heroin or even crystal meth road (the last two I never personally took).
This is a total guess (obviously) on my part. But I would suggest that less then 1% of the people that have ever done a hard drug went looking for it for their first time. Either someone offered it to them or they ended up at the wrong party and they wanted to try the drug that was being passed around, not knowing what it was. If 90-95% of the drugs consumed were at drug clubs; the odds of that happening would (I suspect) be drastically reduced.

And that is another reason how drug clubs would help. I believe there would actually be far less drugs on the 'street' because it would just not be profitable for the dealers. Right now it is extremly easy to get crack considering it is illegal. It got to the point (during my drug days) that I could make a call almost anytime of the day or night and get someone to deliver almost as much as I wanted. I didn't have to move. It was almost like ordering pizza it was that easy.
If I went to a strange city; all I had to do was go to a strip club and ask the dancers. Or, better, call an escort and you can almost always get set up. I went to a small port town (of about 30,000 people) once. I didn't know a soul. I called an escort service and within three hours I was high on crack and stayed high - off and on - for about ten days. I guarantee you if drugs were legalized and sold in 'drug clubs' that that scenario would not be nearly so easy to repeat - if even realistically possible at all.
The bottom line is, drugs are almost everywhere now. How could putting them in drug clubs realistically make things worse?

I understand your points and they are all good points. I'm still afraid that if those drugs were made legal then those clubs would become know as death clubs because so many people would be overdosing. It's much easier to OD on those drugs than Alcohol or Tobacco.

I look at Alcohol and Tobacco and I see two legal substances that cause millions of deaths each year, then I look at other illegal drugs that are far more dangerous and I hate to think of all the harm they could do if they were legal.

 

[Harry Lime]

No leagalization. bloody liberals!

Say NO to drugs!

I'm far from a liberal. I'm a conservative. Probably one of the only conservatives that is an atheist. I just have a reasonable mind. Marijuana isn't physically addicting and that is really my basis on why it should be legalized, if not at least tolorated

 

[McRocket]

I understand your points and they are all good points. I'm still afraid that if those drugs were made legal then those clubs would become know as death clubs because so many people would be overdosing. It's much easier to OD on those drugs than Alcohol or Tobacco.

I look at Alcohol and Tobacco and I see two legal substances that cause millions of deaths each year, then I look at other illegal drugs that are far more dangerous and I hate to think of all the harm they could do if they were legal.

You seem like an intelligent and reasonable fellow. And I understand your perspective. I, before I became a user, probably would have felt the same way as you.
But if there were 'drug clubs', then they would have a doctor (if the club was large enough) or at least a nurse on the premises at all times. So any overdoses could be treated. When I was using, probably my biggest, deepest fear was what would I do if I badly overdosed? If I went to the hospital I could be charged. If I were using at home and I wasen't able to clear things up before I went to the hospital or called an ambulance then I could get some very serious charges if enough drugs were still left. And then what if I overdosed so seriously that I could not even contact anyone? Or what if I was with others and they were too scared (or too selfish or paranoid) to contact anyone to help me and just left.
All of these concerns would have been, for the most part I think, alleviated if I were in a drug club. And how many other people in the world would be in my shoes. Dieing and not knowing it. But too scared to contact anyone for fear of the criminal system.
I cannot prove it - nor could you to the contrary I suspect. But I feel it would be far safer to use in a controlled enviornment then on my own.

 

[tempestwarrior]

There are countries in Europe that made drug use legal, and it dropped the amount of drug abuse considereably. Why? Most people like the risk I guess.

 

[Brino]

You seem like an intelligent and reasonable fellow. And I understand your perspective. I, before I became a user, probably would have felt the same way as you.
But if there were 'drug clubs', then they would have a doctor (if the club was large enough) or at least a nurse on the premises at all times. So any overdoses could be treated. When I was using, probably my biggest, deepest fear was what would I do if I badly overdosed? If I went to the hospital I could be charged. If I were using at home and I wasen't able to clear things up before I went to the hospital or called an ambulance then I could get some very serious charges if enough drugs were still left. And then what if I overdosed so seriously that I could not even contact anyone? Or what if I was with others and they were too scared (or too selfish or paranoid) to contact anyone to help me and just left.
All of these concerns would have been, for the most part I think, alleviated if I were in a drug club. And how many other people in the world would be in my shoes. Dieing and not knowing it. But too scared to contact anyone for fear of the criminal system.
I cannot prove it - nor could you to the contrary I suspect. But I feel it would be far safer to use in a controlled enviornment then on my own.

Your right I can't prove what will happen if drugs are made legal but I look at alcohol use and all the people that die because of drunk drivers and I for one believe that that's a glimpse of what would happen with drug use. Human Beings are just not responsible enough to regulate ourselves when it comes to these matters.

When you overdose, even if there is a doctor, it still does harm to your body.

 

[McRocket]

Your right I can't prove what will happen if drugs are made legal but I look at alcohol use and all the people that die because of drunk drivers and I for one believe that that's a glimpse of what would happen with drug use. Human Beings are just not responsible enough to regulate ourselves when it comes to these matters.

When you overdose, even if there is a doctor, it still does harm to your body.

Well, to take the overdose part first. Yes, people will overdose. But they are now. And neither you nor I know how many are overdosing per year. But if most of the drugs being used (in a 'drug club') are with either a doctor or a nurse on the premises - how can the number of deaths from overdosing not go down.
As I mentioned above, if you OD now, you don't report it unless you think you are near death. And then it is probably too late. In a drug club there would be little, if any reason, not to report it so you would get instant medical care. How could the number of drug related overdose deaths possibly go up in a 'drug club' scenario? I personally do not see how. But perhaps you can think of a way that I have failed to consider.

Second, you mentioned drunk driving. I put it to you that there would be hardly anyone ever driving while under the influence of drugs in a 'drug club' scenario. Why? Because every club would (if I ran them) have a 'detox' area. A place where you go after you have finished using where you must stay in for at least 8(?) hours before you may leave. Basically, a place to sleep it off. No one could leave without being straight. This would probably not apply to marijuana users - though that is not a certainty. So driving under the influence of narcotics would be, in my mind, very unlikely.
Hard drugs are not all like booze. Booze takes hours and hours to leave the system. I can tell you from experience that I was high on several occassions for almost 3 days straight (little food and no sleep) on crack cocaine and within 3 or 4 hours I felt absolutely normal - incredibly tired and rather hungry - but normal.

 

[sky]

Just Marijuana :thumbsup:

 

[Brino]

Well, to take the overdose part first. Yes, people will overdose. But they are now. And neither you nor I know how many are overdosing per year. But if most of the drugs being used (in a 'drug club') are with either a doctor or a nurse on the premises - how can the number of deaths from overdosing not go down.
As I mentioned above, if you OD now, you don't report it unless you think you are near death. And then it is probably too late. In a drug club there would be little, if any reason, not to report it so you would get instant medical care. How could the number of drug related overdose deaths possibly go up in a 'drug club' scenario? I personally do not see how. But perhaps you can think of a way that I have failed to consider.

I wasn't neccessarily talking about deaths but injuries. If you overdose it does harm to your body/mind even if you survive. Am I wrong in assuming that drugs do harm the body/mind? I don't think I am but maybe I'm wrong.

Second, you mentioned drunk driving. I put it to you that there would be hardly anyone ever driving while under the influence of drugs in a 'drug club' scenario. Why? Because every club would (if I ran them) have a 'detox' area. A place where you go after you have finished using where you must stay in for at least 8(?) hours before you may leave. Basically, a place to sleep it off. No one could leave without being straight. This would probably not apply to marijuana users - though that is not a certainty. So driving under the influence of narcotics would be, in my mind, very unlikely.
Hard drugs are not all like booze. Booze takes hours and hours to leave the system. I can tell you from experience that I was high on several occassions for almost 3 days straight (little food and no sleep) on crack cocaine and within 3 or 4 hours I felt absolutely normal - incredibly tired and rather hungry - but normal.

Here's why I think there would be drugs on the street, the club that your describing doesn't sound very appealing. Who would want to spend 8 hours or more in a drug club detoxing? Besides you can't force anybody to stay and detox against their will.

 

[McRocket]

I wasn't neccessarily talking about deaths but injuries. If you overdose it does harm to your body/mind even if you survive. Am I wrong in assuming that drugs do harm the body/mind? I don't think I am but maybe I'm wrong.



Here's why I think there would be drugs on the street, the club that your describing doesn't sound very appealing. Who would want to spend 8 hours or more in a drug club detoxing? Besides you can't force anybody to stay and detox against their will.

First, taking drugs harms your mind/body and cigarettes and alcohol do not? How about lung cancer, liver cancer, liver degeneration (I don't know how to spell serosys, lol).
Yes, drugs do harm your mind. Among other things they hurt your short term memory. Also they can hurt things like short term memory.


Second. You make a valid point about people can leave when they want to. But,

A) It is just my idea about it - the 8 hour thing.

B) As an ex-drug user, there is no way that I wouldn't be exhausted (as I typed earlier) from using for hours and hours. 8 hours of sleep would be welcome. And everyone I ever remember getting high with got high until they ran out of 'stuff' - not just plan for an hour or two. So to expect most people to use and then not need a full night's sleep afterwards is, I think, unrealistic.

and C) Everything comes with a price. I am saying this to an addict. 'If you want cheap, legal, high quality drugs you are going to have to pay a price. And that price is that when you enter a drug club you are going to have to sign a form agreeing to stay for 8 hours (the time limit could be less - maybe 4 or 6 hours. But no less, I think) in the detox area.'
As an ex addict, I can tell you that that is an agreement I would have happily signed. Besides, like I said, I'd need a good sleep anyway.
Also, many users now live on the streets. Do you realy think they would mind being given a free night's rest indoors?
And this would only apply to the more serious drugs (crack cocaine, heroin, crystal meth, possibly others)

 

[Brino]

First, taking drugs harms your mind/body and cigarettes and alcohol do not? How about lung cancer, liver cancer, liver degeneration (I don't know how to spell serosys, lol).
Yes, drugs do harm your mind. Among other things they hurt your short term memory. Also they can hurt things like short term memory.

Well, I think alcohol and tobacco should be illegal too but I realize that will never happen.

Second. You make a valid point about people can leave when they want to. But,

A) It is just my idea about it - the 8 hour thing.

B) As an ex-drug user, there is no way that I wouldn't be exhausted (as I typed earlier) from using for hours and hours. 8 hours of sleep would be welcome. And everyone I ever remember getting high with got high until they ran out of 'stuff' - not just plan for an hour or two. So to expect most people to use and then not need a full night's sleep afterwards is, I think, unrealistic.

and C) Everything comes with a price. I am saying this to an addict. 'If you want cheap, legal, high quality drugs you are going to have to pay a price. And that price is that when you enter a drug club you are going to have to sign a form agreeing to stay for 8 hours (the time limit could be less - maybe 4 or 6 hours. But no less, I think) in the detox area.'
As an ex addict, I can tell you that that is an agreement I would have happily signed. Besides, like I said, I'd need a good sleep anyway.
Also, many users now live on the streets. Do you realy think they would mind being given a free night's rest indoors?
And this would only apply to the more serious drugs (crack cocaine, heroin, crystal meth, possibly others)

I respect your opinions and beliefs but I don't think every drug user shares them. I'm sure that a lot of people would be tired after using but that doesn't mean they'd want to sleep in some club with a bunch of strangers as supposed to sleeping at home. I wouldn't.

Your statement that drug users would just keep taking drugs until they ran out troubles me. In a drug club would they ever run out? If they could take all the drugs they wanted doesn't that make it even more likely that they would OD? And if they couldn't get all the drugs they wanted in the club then maybe they would turn to the street to get more. I think a drug club raises more questions than answers.

I doubt that many drug users would like the idea that everything comes at a price and that might make them turn to the street. Also, I don't doubt that a lot of drug users live on the street but I don't think that the majority of them do.

btw thanks for the rep! :thumbsup:

 

[McRocket]

Well, I think alcohol and tobacco should be illegal too but I realize that will never happen.



I respect your opinions and beliefs but I don't think every drug user shares them. I'm sure that a lot of people would be tired after using but that doesn't mean they'd want to sleep in some club with a bunch of strangers as supposed to sleeping at home. I wouldn't.

Your statement that drug users would just keep taking drugs until they ran out troubles me. In a drug club would they ever run out? If they could take all the drugs they wanted doesn't that make it even more likely that they would OD? And if they couldn't get all the drugs they wanted in the club then maybe they would turn to the street to get more. I think a drug club raises more questions than answers.

I doubt that many drug users would like the idea that everything comes at a price and that might make them turn to the street. Also, I don't doubt that a lot of drug users live on the street but I don't think that the majority of them do.

btw thanks for the rep! :thumbsup:

First, no prob on the rep. I've enjoyed the debate.

Second, your point that drug users would rather sleep at home then in a club. Yes, that is no doubt true. But I think you are failing to take a few things under consideration (understandable since you apparently have little or no drug use experience - the better for you).
Taking hard drugs is not like drinking. It is not a social thing. It is a very intense experience and puts rather great demands on the body. My normal heart rate is about 60-62 beats per minute. When I was 'high' it was probably more like 150+ beats per minute; for hour after hour. Time while on crack (and I assume the other 'hard' drugs) fliesby. Hours seem like minutes. To be high for 12-15 hours is no giant deal. Just normally one would be exhausted. Throw in a greatly elevated heartrate for that time and sleep would be even more necessary. On top of that, there is the withdrawl; or the jonesing. Once a user is out and is not (or usually cannot) get anymore, there is a definite emotional letdown. And it can be quite severe. It only lasts for a few hours. But it is quite uncomfortable. One does not feel much like running around or doing much of anything until it passes. For that period of time you just want to sit or lie down and wate until it passes. So taking all that energy and effort to go home - unless you live right across the street from the 'drug club' (and seeing I assume it will not be near a residential area - that is not likely), I would imagine most people would just wanna stay put.
In terms of being with strangers. That is no big deal. Getting high is usally all about being with strangers. After all, you can NEVER trust other addicts - not even yourself really. So being with strangers is par for the course.

And your point about users wouldn't like that everthing comes at a price. If the price is you have to 'sleep it off' for a few hours at the 'drug club' in exchange for high quality, legal drugs at perhaps 1/10 of the street price; I guarantee you that most if not almost all addicts would gladly pay that price. I mean no offense. But why on earth would they not consider that a more then fair price? And try an remember. You are not an addict. You do not know what it is like. I was a hardcore crackhead for almost 3 years. I think I know more about how addicts would feel then you.
That is not to belittle your points or opinions. They are definitely valid. But to presuppose that you know what an addict would feel when you have (I assume) zero direct experience does you little justice. I, myself, have known dozens and dozens of addicts. And though I have never put this question to them (drug clubs); I feel VERY confident in saying that the 'price' would be one they would gladly pay. However, if you can find direct information to the contrary I would sincerely be interested in hearing/reading about it. Honestly.

Finally, your concerns (your middle point) about drug users ODing is a definitely valid one. With cheap, high quality, legal drugs available; undoubtedly many would OD. I think, it would be more then are ODing now. However, I think the number of deaths from drugs would be much lower. Since there would be a medical practitioner on site at all times then surely the death rate from ODing would be lowered.
But even if more people died from drug use, well so be it. It is their lives to do with as they choose. It is not for you or I to tell them what they can and cannot do. Skydiving is a dangerous pastime (which, BTW I have only done once - but it was the most amazing high I ever got. And the weird thing is; isthat the high did not hit me for about 2 or 3 hours after I landed. And I have reason to believe that that is a normal reaction). So is hang gliding. Or mountain climbing. All dangerous and all near useless to society. So then why do we not outlaw it?Because it isn't hurting anybody except the participant. So, if users are hurting no one but themselves, why is it anyone elses business (assuming they are not trying to kill themselves - not even sure if it is our business then) if they want to escape from the pain of their lives through this method?

'Drug clubs' are probably not a perfect solution. But are you saying that the situation we have now - with the average American contributing, on average, $200 to $300 per year to organized crime - is better? I cannot believe that the best mankind can come up with to deal with drug use is to throw people in jail for using, and donating perhaps as much as 100 BILLION dollars a year to organized crime?
BTW, under US federal law, if you are caught and tried in a federal court for possession of 5 grams of crack; that you would get the same penalty as if you were caught with 500 grams of coke? Now I bought what is called a 'quarter' (meaning a 1/4 ounce) of crack almost every time I used. If I had been apprehended and convivted in US federal court just three times for what I usually bought (just for my own intended consumption) then I would now be in jail for the rest of my life (as I understand the US legal system).

 

[Brino]

I agree that the system that we have set up now does suck and I agree that if drug users want to fuck up there own lives then their free to do that (although if somebody's addicted then they might not want to do it anymore but can't help themselves). I'm most concerned with the possible harm that might befall others that don't do drugs i.e. somebody driving while their high etc.

I admit that I have no expierence with addicts but I just don't agree with you when you say that getting high isn't a social thing. A lot of the time you see people getting high at clubs and party's which are social enviroments.

I'm still not convinced that people will accept drug clubs as supposed to just getting it off the street if getting it off the street is easier. If drug clubs existed then the drugs on the street would be cheaper so they could compete and I doubt that all the addicts would care if the drugs weren't as clean as long as it still got them high. I could be wrong since I don't have much expierence with drugs.

Oh, and why would working class people agree to stay in a club for 24 hours just to do drugs and then detox?