Legalize illegal drugs?

[McRocket]

I agree that the system that we have set up now does suck and I agree that if drug users want to fuck up there own lives then their free to do that (although if somebody's addicted then they might not want to do it anymore but can't help themselves). I'm most concerned with the possible harm that might befall others that don't do drugs i.e. somebody driving while their high etc.

I admit that I have no expierence with addicts but I just don't agree with you when you say that getting high isn't a social thing. A lot of the time you see people getting high at clubs and party's which are social enviroments.

I'm still not convinced that people will accept drug clubs as supposed to just getting it off the street if getting it off the street is easier. If drug clubs existed then the drugs on the street would be cheaper so they could compete and I doubt that all the addicts would care if the drugs weren't as clean as long as it still got them high. I could be wrong since I don't have much expierence with drugs.

Oh, and why would working class people agree to stay in a club for 24 hours just to do drugs and then detox?

Well, if you honestly think that drugs would be as or near as cheap on the street then if there were drug clubs, then I sort of see your point. But name one thing that is both illegal and legal where the prices are even reasonably similar? If you have any reasonable proof that drugs would cost even remotely similar on the street then if they were legal - and I will read it. But I highly doubt you could find such evidence. And apparently, you are known around here at good at finding things on the net.

Secondly, you mentioned seeing people get high at clubs and parties. What parties? Getting high on marijuana or extacy - yeah maybe. But I am talking about crack, heroin, etc.. When you are really high on those things, you don't want to 'party'. You usually just want to sit and enjoy in relative peace and silence. You are certainly too high to dance or do anything active. Crack 'parties' are usually very quiet affairs. If they are using 'properly' that is.

 

[McRocket]

Well, if you honestly think that drugs would be as or near as cheap on the street then if there were drug clubs, then I sort of see your point. But name one thing that is both illegal and legal where the prices are even reasonably similar? If you have any reasonable proof that drugs would cost even remotely similar on the street then if they were legal - and I will read it. But I highly doubt you could find such evidence. And apparently, you are known around here at good at finding things on the net.

Secondly, you mentioned seeing people get high at clubs and parties. What parties? Getting high on marijuana or extacy - yeah maybe. But I am talking about crack, heroin, etc.. When you are really high on those things, you don't want to 'party'. You usually just want to sit and enjoy in relative peace and silence. You are certainly too high to dance or do anything active. Crack 'parties' are usually very quiet affairs. If they are using 'properly' that is.

Further to what I was saying. I just considered this. With all due respect Brino.

But are you saying that you honestly believe that to have a company in your state legally grow cocaine (for example), process it and ship it down to a local drug club (probably less then 200 miles away). And then have that club sell that cocaine at near cost is going to cost anywhere near as much as if you have someone importing it thousands of miles away from Columbia (who will want a big profit), and then import it illegally (again at a profit), and then distribute it from one middleperson to the next (all of then taking a cut) intil it finally ends up being sold on a street corner, at a profit, illegally?
Come on. You do not seriously think that the former would cost anywhere near as much as the latter do you?

And purity would not matter? Purity is almost everything. You need a certain amount of purity to get high in the first place. SO the purer the stuff - the better and longer the high. And that, after all, is the whole point of using. So yes. I would say that the purity is VERY important.

 

[LetoII]

Further to what I was saying. I just considered this. With all due respect Brino.

But are you saying that you honestly believe that to have a company in your state legally grow cocaine (for example), process it and ship it down to a local drug club (probably less then 200 miles away). And then have that club sell that cocaine at near cost is going to cost anywhere near as much as if you have someone importing it thousands of miles away from Columbia (who will want a big profit), and then import it illegally (again at a profit), and then distribute it from one middleperson to the next (all of then taking a cut) intil it finally ends up being sold on a street corner, at a profit, illegally?
Come on. You do not seriously think that the former would cost anywhere near as much as the latter do you?

And purity would not matter? Purity is almost everything. You need a certain amount of purity to get high in the first place. SO the purer the stuff - the better and longer the high. And that, after all, is the whole point of using. So yes. I would say that the purity is VERY important.

you're right. purity definitely matters. not only concerning the high but also your health. as i already mentioned before: in many cases it is the cheap chemical stuff they mix with a drug that triggers a deadly overdose reaction.
strychnine for example (which is usually mixed with cocaine and heroin) triggers severe spasms and apnea at a high dosage.
you also have to consider that in a drug club you wouldn't get as much stuff as you want. the dose would probably be determined by an anesthetist adjusted to age,weight, blood parameters and other relevant physical conditions of the drug user - which is, again, minimizing the risk of an overdose.

btw Brino, just want to tell you that i ,too, am enjoying this conversation and that i accept and even appreciate your point of view and scepticism as a person that hasn't been in touch with the drug scene - fortunately. i apologize for having been a bit harsh here and there. no offense - just trying to convince you

 

[Brino]

Well, if you honestly think that drugs would be as or near as cheap on the street then if there were drug clubs, then I sort of see your point. But name one thing that is both illegal and legal where the prices are even reasonably similar? If you have any reasonable proof that drugs would cost even remotely similar on the street then if they were legal - and I will read it. But I highly doubt you could find such evidence. And apparently, you are known around here at good at finding things on the net.

Well I can't give you an example because I have no idea of what to use an example that's both illegal and legal at the same time. Is that even what your asking?

Secondly, you mentioned seeing people get high at clubs and parties. What parties? Getting high on marijuana or extacy - yeah maybe. But I am talking about crack, heroin, etc.. When you are really high on those things, you don't want to 'party'. You usually just want to sit and enjoy in relative peace and silence. You are certainly too high to dance or do anything active. Crack 'parties' are usually very quiet affairs. If they are using 'properly' that is.

I've specifically seen people getting high on cocaine at party's that I've been to.

 

[Brino]

Further to what I was saying. I just considered this. With all due respect Brino.

But are you saying that you honestly believe that to have a company in your state legally grow cocaine (for example), process it and ship it down to a local drug club (probably less then 200 miles away). And then have that club sell that cocaine at near cost is going to cost anywhere near as much as if you have someone importing it thousands of miles away from Columbia (who will want a big profit), and then import it illegally (again at a profit), and then distribute it from one middleperson to the next (all of then taking a cut) intil it finally ends up being sold on a street corner, at a profit, illegally?
Come on. You do not seriously think that the former would cost anywhere near as much as the latter do you?

And purity would not matter? Purity is almost everything. You need a certain amount of purity to get high in the first place. SO the purer the stuff - the better and longer the high. And that, after all, is the whole point of using. So yes. I would say that the purity is VERY important.

I'm saying that they would probably get the drugs illegally from the same source that the clubs get it from. Or they would get the drugs illegally from insiders in the various clubs that would smuggle them out of the clubs.

I know that purity matters but I was refering to what you or Leto said earlier about the drugs being sold on the streets not being as healthy as the drugs sold in clubs. Maybe I misheard you.

 

[Brino]

you're right. purity definitely matters. not only concerning the high but also your health. as i already mentioned before: in many cases it is the cheap chemical stuff they mix with a drug that triggers a deadly overdose reaction.
strychnine for example (which is usually mixed with cocaine and heroin) triggers severe spasms and apnea at a high dosage.
you also have to consider that in a drug club you wouldn't get as much stuff as you want. the dose would probably be determined by an anesthetist adjusted to age,weight, blood parameters and other relevant physical conditions of the drug user - which is, again, minimizing the risk of an overdose.

Well, what if people wanted more drugs than the club would give them? Wouldn't they then turn to the street?

btw Brino, just want to tell you that i ,too, am enjoying this conversation and that i accept and even appreciate your point of view and scepticism as a person that hasn't been in touch with the drug scene - fortunately. i apologize for having been a bit harsh here and there. no offense - just trying to convince you

No problem, I to am sorry if I've been harsh. :hatsoff:

 

[McRocket]

I'm saying that they would probably get the drugs illegally from the same source that the clubs get it from. Or they would get the drugs illegally from insiders in the various clubs that would smuggle them out of the clubs.

I know that purity matters but I was refering to what you or Leto said earlier about the drugs being sold on the streets not being as healthy as the drugs sold in clubs. Maybe I misheard you.

That's a good point about smuggling it out of the clubs. But security at the clubs would have to be rock solid. You don't get in or out without being checked - thoroughly, whether you are a user or an employee. Same with the employees at the manufacturing locations. But even if some did get out; who would buy it? The markup would obviously be great (otherwise, why would the smuggler(s) bother?).
Few if any sell booze on the street. What's the point? It's sold so cheap there is no point. And that is what drug clubs could do. Make drug use SO inexpensive that to sell it illegally is not profitable.

And on this one point I disagree with Leto II - the point of selling it in the 'clubs'. I say you can buy as much as you want. You can buy as many drinks as you want in a bar; and if you drank them all you would probably die (if you could drink them all before you passed out). The same with drugs. Other then the tight security and the detox time, drug clubs would be similar to bars. Just drugs being sold instead of booze.
Also, I have been thinking of revising my thought on the detox time. I would think 2 hours may be sufficient. After two hours of my last 'blast' of crack (back in the days) I was pretty much straight. I do not know about heroin though. My guess is the detox time would have to be longer. Long enough so that the 'jonesing' effect has passed before the addicts are released back into 'society'.

And you typed about seeing cocaine at a party. As far as I am concerned, cocaine is not a hard drug. It is a medium one. I honestly think that alcohol is more serious then cocaine. Unfortunetly, cocaine can be turned very easily into crack, so it has to be treated like a hard drug (because coke and crack are like day and night in intensity).
So, I guess it, along with the other hard drugs would only be sold at the clubs. I think marijuana and exstacty (<--spelling?) and hash and maybe LSD (but probably not) could be sold anywhere booze is. These, to me, are mild drugs. Certainly in comparison with the 'big' boys.

 

[Brino]

That's a good point about smuggling it out of the clubs. But security at the clubs would have to be rock solid. You don't get in or out without being checked - thoroughly, whether you are a user or an employee. Same with the employees at the manufacturing locations. But even if some did get out; who would buy it? The markup would obviously be great (otherwise, why would the smuggler(s) bother?).
Few if any sell booze on the street. What's the point? It's sold so cheap there is no point. And that is what drug clubs could do. Make drug use SO inexpensive that to sell it illegally is not profitable.

And on this one point I disagree with Leto II - the point of selling it in the 'clubs'. I say you can buy as much as you want. You can buy as many drinks as you want in a bar; and if you drank them all you would probably die (if you could drink them all before you passed out). The same with drugs. Other then the tight security and the detox time, drug clubs would be similar to bars. Just drugs being sold instead of booze.
Also, I have been thinking of revising my thought on the detox time. I would think 2 hours may be sufficient. After two hours of my last 'blast' of crack (back in the days) I was pretty much straight. I do not know about heroin though. My guess is the detox time would have to be longer. Long enough so that the 'jonesing' effect has passed before the addicts are released back into 'society'.

And you typed about seeing cocaine at a party. As far as I am concerned, cocaine is not a hard drug. It is a medium one. I honestly think that alcohol is more serious then cocaine. Unfortunetly, cocaine can be turned very easily into crack, so it has to be treated like a hard drug (because coke and crack are like day and night in intensity).
So, I guess it, along with the other hard drugs would only be sold at the clubs. I think marijuana and exstacty (<--spelling?) and hash and maybe LSD (but probably not) could be sold anywhere booze is. These, to me, are mild drugs. Certainly in comparison with the 'big' boys.

I think you make valid points but most of your points seem to be comparing the effects of Alcohol with the effects of hard drugs. You can't really compare the situation we have now with your idea of drug clubs. Though Alcohol is dangerous it's still much easier to OD on drugs than it is to die from overdrinking. Also, with the situation we have now people can have alcohol wherever they want not just in a bar. So one could argue that stores selling alcohol is kinda like the sale of alcohol on the street. With your drug clubs that option wouldn't exist.

Everything youve described about the drug clubs makes it seem like it would be a real hassle to go to one and thus the demand for drugs on the street.

Also, I have to say that the plan you have about checking the people for drugs before they leave wouldn't work. First lets say that it's the owner of the club thats smuggling the drugs out of the club and he has authority over the security personel. Or maybe it would be one of the security personel smuggling the drugs out of the club. Or the drug clubs could be robbed of the drugs. Theres just no sure fire way of keeping the drugs in the clubs.

btw I seriously question whether two hours would be enough time to detox.

 

[McRocket]

I think you make valid points but most of your points seem to be comparing the effects of Alcohol with the effects of hard drugs. You can't really compare the situation we have now with your idea of drug clubs. Though Alcohol is dangerous it's still much easier to OD on drugs than it is to die from overdrinking. Also, with the situation we have now people can have alcohol wherever they want not just in a bar. So one could argue that stores selling alcohol is kinda like the sale of alcohol on the street. With your drug clubs that option wouldn't exist.

Everything youve described about the drug clubs makes it seem like it would be a real hassle to go to one and thus the demand for drugs on the street.

Also, I have to say that the plan you have about checking the people for drugs before they leave wouldn't work. First lets say that it's the owner of the club thats smuggling the drugs out of the club and he has authority over the security personel. Or maybe it would be one of the security personel smuggling the drugs out of the club. Or the drug clubs could be robbed of the drugs. Theres just no sure fire way of keeping the drugs in the clubs.

btw I seriously question whether two hours would be enough time to detox.

You said that it would be much easier to OD on hard drugs (I assume you meant) then alcohol. Your right. Much easier. So what is your point? Hard drugs are potentially VERY dangerous. I am not saying people won't die. They will. But that is their choice to make. As long as it basically hurts nobody, so what? It's their life.
My point was that 'drug clubs' would make drugs SO cheap that it would no longer be profitable for organized crime to be involved. Show me evidence to the contrary and I will consider it.

You also typed that stores selling alcohol is kinda like the sale of alcohol on the street'.
With all due respect, they are nearly nothing alike. Buying alcohol in a store is legal and cheap. The term 'street' (in this case) means illegal. Which would not be nearly as cheap. How are they 'kinda' the same?

There would be no owner of the drug club. it would be owned and run by the state. Would 'guards' smuggle some out? Of course. But I would have them shower and change their clothes (on the premises) before they start work and once again after they finish work. Then subject them to a drug dog 'sniff'. If the dog senses nothing. They go home. If the dog does get a sniff, they get a body search. Some drugs would get out. But no system is perfect. Besides. what would they do with them - other then use them personally? Why do bouncers not smuggle booze out of clubs (except for a few beers after work maybe)? Because it's so cheap. No one would pay enough for the beer to make it worth the bouncers/bartenders/etc. effort. The same with the drug clubs.

And the hassle to go to the clubs part. I am an ex-addict. And I am telling you that back in the days I would have loved it. And I believe all my drug 'friends' would have also. If you can find a hardcore crack or heroin user who says otherwise; then please let me know. But until such time. I am afraid you are talking out of ignorance, not knowledge. No offense.

 

[Brino]

You said that it would be much easier to OD on hard drugs (I assume you meant) then alcohol. Your right. Much easier. So what is your point? Hard drugs are potentially VERY dangerous. I am not saying people won't die. They will. But that is their choice to make. As long as it basically hurts nobody, so what? It's their life.
My point was that 'drug clubs' would make drugs SO cheap that it would no longer be profitable for organized crime to be involved. Show me evidence to the contrary and I will consider it.

You also typed that stores selling alcohol is kinda like the sale of alcohol on the street'.
With all due respect, they are nearly nothing alike. Buying alcohol in a store is legal and cheap. The term 'street' (in this case) means illegal. Which would not be nearly as cheap. How are they 'kinda' the same?

There would be no owner of the drug club. it would be owned and run by the state. Would 'guards' smuggle some out? Of course. But I would have them shower and change their clothes (on the premises) before they start work and once again after they finish work. Then subject them to a drug dog 'sniff'. If the dog senses nothing. They go home. If the dog does get a sniff, they get a body search. Some drugs would get out. But no system is perfect. Besides. what would they do with them - other then use them personally? Why do bouncers not smuggle booze out of clubs (except for a few beers after work maybe)? Because it's so cheap. No one would pay enough for the beer to make it worth the bouncers/bartenders/etc. effort. The same with the drug clubs.

And the hassle to go to the clubs part. I am an ex-addict. And I am telling you that back in the days I would have loved it. And I believe all my drug 'friends' would have also. If you can find a hardcore crack or heroin user who says otherwise; then please let me know. But until such time. I am afraid you are talking out of ignorance, not knowledge. No offense.

OK heres my point, you keep on comparing Alcohol and bars with drugs and drug clubs. The difference is that it's not illegal to have Alcohol on the street where as under your plan it would be illegal to have drugs on the street. People don't need to smuggle alcohol out of bars because they probably have a six pack in their refrigerator at home. When I said that buying beer in the store is kinda like buying drugs on the street that's what I meant.

In other words, people can have alcohol where ever they want not just in a bar, in your drug club scenario that wouldn't be the case. Thus if people didn't want to go to a club to get high then they would buy the drugs illegally off the street so they can get high where ever they want. It probably wouldn't be that much more expensive because they would be buying the drugs from insiders in the club. These insiders would be selling the drugs because they can make more money that way. They would make more money because not only would they be getting paid their normal paycheck from their job at the club but they would also be making money off of what they sold on the street.

Speaking for myself, If I were a drug addict I wouldn't want to go threw all the hassle involved with a drug club when I can get the same drugs for only slightly more money on the street. Now I mean no offense when I say this but it seems like you might be running in a different crowd of drug users. I think I heard you say that you were a stockbroker (I hope I spelled it right) now if thats the case then I would expect you to be hanging out with a higher class of drug users i.e. richer drug users. I have no doubt that a lot of the drug users out there are rich and probably would have no problem with drug clubs. But what about the drug users that aren't as well off? Your average everyday addict that sells everything he has to afford drugs. Or perhaps a college student who doesn't have the time to spend hours on end getting high and detoxing in a drug club. What about them? Would they be willing to go threw all the hassle of a drug club? Or would they rather buy the drugs for slightly more money on the street and get high at a keg party? I know what I would do.

I really dont think that people would like waiting in line to get into a drug club, because you know theres going to be lines, getting high for hours on end, detoxing for a few more hours, then having to go threw a strip search with dogs smelling their asses to make sure that their not smuggling any drugs out of the club. How much time would all that entail even? Probably a whole day if not more. I certainly wouldn't want to go threw all that just to get high, especially if I can get the same quality drugs off the street for not that much more money. That's just my opinion and I think others might share it.

 

[McRocket]

OK heres my point, you keep on comparing Alcohol and bars with drugs and drug clubs. The difference is that it's not illegal to have Alcohol on the street where as under your plan it would be illegal to have drugs on the street. People don't need to smuggle alcohol out of bars because they probably have a six pack in their refrigerator at home. When I said that buying beer in the store is kinda like buying drugs on the street that's what I meant.

In other words, people can have alcohol where ever they want not just in a bar, in your drug club scenario that wouldn't be the case. Thus if people didn't want to go to a club to get high then they would buy the drugs illegally off the street so they can get high where ever they want. It probably wouldn't be that much more expensive because they would be buying the drugs from insiders in the club. These insiders would be selling the drugs because they can make more money that way. They would make more money because not only would they be getting paid their normal paycheck from their job at the club but they would also be making money off of what they sold on the street.

Speaking for myself, If I were a drug addict I wouldn't want to go threw all the hassle involved with a drug club when I can get the same drugs for only slightly more money on the street. Now I mean no offense when I say this but it seems like you might be running in a different crowd of drug users. I think I heard you say that you were a stockbroker (I hope I spelled it right) now if thats the case then I would expect you to be hanging out with a higher class of drug users i.e. richer drug users. I have no doubt that a lot of the drug users out there are rich and probably would have no problem with drug clubs. But what about the drug users that aren't as well off? Your average everyday addict that sells everything he has to afford drugs. Or perhaps a college student who doesn't have the time to spend hours on end getting high and detoxing in a drug club. What about them? Would they be willing to go threw all the hassle of a drug club? Or would they rather buy the drugs for slightly more money on the street and get high at a keg party? I know what I would do.

I really dont think that people would like waiting in line to get into a drug club, because you know theres going to be lines, getting high for hours on end, detoxing for a few more hours, then having to go threw a strip search with dogs smelling their asses to make sure that their not smuggling any drugs out of the club. How much time would all that entail even? Probably a whole day if not more. I certainly wouldn't want to go threw all that just to get high, especially if I can get the same quality drugs off the street for not that much more money. That's just my opinion and I think others might share it.

Well, I understand what you are saying. But you are speculating what drug clubs would be like and what they would be like for users even though there are no drug clubs and you are not a user and you have never (apparently) known a user. That does not seem to me to a firm basis of scientific or imperical date to base an opinion on.
And why I keep mentioning it is because, quite frankily, it bothers me that you aret telling me what drug users would want when you don't know any (and the user's I hung out with were broke and prostitutes. Not other stockbrokers - btw I think you spelled it right. These were broke druggie leeches that thried to mooch off me. They were your fairly basic, fairly stereotypical crackheads.).

I am giving you real life facts about what real life drugusers feel and felt. And you are saying, 'well, maybe. But I do not think that is the way it would be' - even thought your experience with hard drugs is at or near zero. So there is obviously no point in trying to convince you further.
I am not trying to be rude. And I believe your intentions are good. But you just do not know what you are talking about. And I have tried to convince you aotherwise. But you just don't seem to see it.

The bottom line is. I say the way I have suggested the drug clubs would be setup would be tremendously good for society. I say that the drugs on the street would virtually dry up. You disagree. Fine. When you have some imperical data or have a quotable opinion from a hard drug user or ex-user then I will gladly listen. But until such time, this back and forth has gotten a bit pointless.

And finally, I get a little bothered by arrogance. And when you presuppose to tell me what an addict feels and wants when you have no direct knowledge of hard drugs - to me - is at least a little arrogant.
You are an intelligent fellow who makes some well intentioned points. And I do see the logic in them. But, might I suggest that before you pass judgement on something that you know little about (and this can apply to anything, not just this subject) with such apparent certainty; that you try and learn about it first. Not firsthand of course. But the net is full of users and ex-users and their opinions. Why not seek some out when you have a spare moment or two?

And though I have, genreally enjoyed this debate with you, I will close by giving one last opinion on the subject.

Hard drugs and booze are very different. Almost every minute you are on drugs, you feel some shame. Booze usually does not have that effect on people. People grab 'six packs' to watch the game with, or socialize with. Rarely do people drink just to drink. They do it to socialize or to go with something else. When you are high on crack - you cannot do anything else. You can't speak properly. And you can't move properly. And you don't socialize much. You just be high. So having a 'six pack' of crack in the fridge to have a 'cold one' when you get home from a long day just does not apply to crack (or heroin, I imagine).

 

[McRocket]

To Brino...

BTW I like your standing up to the 'others' on other subjects. Someone has to. Please keep it up. Some of those guys get WAY out there. It's good you try and bring them back.

 

[Brino]

I have no personal expierence with drugs i.e. I have never taken drugs and am not personally an addict. I do however know addicts, I use to go to therapy groups where there were addicts. I havn't spoken to them in a long time but I did know them. Maybe I should have made it clearer to you but when I said that I had no personal expierence with drugs I meant that I have never taken drugs not that I didn't use to know other people who had.

 

[harold]

stfu brino

lol i have not read anything on this thread but this is great.

<-----check out GWB's new bong.

 

[Brino]

Look, I respect your opinions and under other circumstances I might agree with you. The only reason I disagree with you is because you can't guarentee that innocent bystandards wont get hurt. You can't guarentee that the drugs will stay in the clubs and you can't guarentee that the people who get high in the clubs will stay in the clubs. Forget about the drug addicts, if they want to take chances with their lives then so be it, that's their perogative. It's the innocent lives that might be lost if the drugs/drug addicts got out of the clubs. Now you can use alcohol and drunk driving as an example of how innocent lives are already being lost and it's a valid point but, to use an age old saying, two wrongs don't make a right. That's what it comes down to for me so I'm afraid that were just going to have to agree to disagree.

 

[McRocket]

Look, I respect your opinions and under other circumstances I might agree with you. The only reason I disagree with you is because you can't guarentee that innocent bystandards wont get hurt. You can't guarentee that the drugs will stay in the clubs and you can't guarentee that the people who get high in the clubs will stay in the clubs. Forget about the drug addicts, if they want to take chances with their lives then so be it, that's their perogative. It's the innocent lives that might be lost if the drugs/drug addicts got out of the clubs. Now you can use alcohol and drunk driving as an example of how innocent lives are already being lost and it's a valid point but, to use an age old saying, two wrongs don't make a right. That's what it comes down to for me so I'm afraid that were just going to have to agree to disagree.

Can I guarantee all this? No. There are no guarantees in life (usually). But I believe that my alternative is better for innocent civilians then the present one.

And btw, before 1914, all drugs were legal (as far as I know). Cocaine. Heroin. All legal. Coke even came in coca cola. I don't recall hearing all hell breaking loose back then due to drug use.
Oh, and I just thought of something. Even if your scenario were true and people were smuggling mass quantities of drugs out of the clubs to be sold on the street. At least then Americans would be profiting from there sale, not Columbians or Afghanisanies (the two number ones in the world for exporting cocaine and heroin, as far as I know). The money would stay in the country.

You have made your points and I mine. I guess all we can do is agree to disagree.

 

[harold]

Look, I respect your opinions and under other circumstances I might agree with you. The only reason I disagree with you is because you can't guarentee that innocent bystandards wont get hurt. You can't guarentee that the drugs will stay in the clubs and you can't guarentee that the people who get high in the clubs will stay in the clubs. Forget about the drug addicts, if they want to take chances with their lives then so be it that's their perogative. It's the innocent lives that might be lost if the drugs/drug addicts got out of the clubs. Now you can use alcohol and drunk driving as an example of how innocent lives are already being lost and it's a valid point but, to use an age old saying, two wrongs don't make a right. That's what it comes down to for me so I'm afraid that were just going to have to agree to disagree.

so by your logic then brino maybe we should outlaw booze. wait a minute we tried that once and it fail miserbally. what went wrong you ask. well first of all it created a black market for booze and the people who profited were criminals (sound familier). secondly, much of the alcohal was unsafe (unsafe spirits not only blinded people but it killed also) thirdly, and this relates to my first point(sorry about the wierd sequencing) gangs formed and fought and killed over the distrabution rights of alchoale.

these are all symptoms that we are experiancing today on the streets because of the prohibition of drugs.

also it is silly to say that you are worried about the people in the bars getting out on the street and causing havic. THE PEOPLE USING HARD CORE DRUGS ARE ALREADY ON THE STREET. along with the drunks - i guess they got out of the bars.

at the very least if the drugs were legalized there would be the possibilty for the goverment to regulate its distrabution, tax its sales and releave the pressure on our prisons.

i am not sure if this has been mentioned before but because of mandatory minimumes some states are having to release violent criminals from thier prisons inorder to make room for drug affenders. THAT IS INSAIN in my opinion.

anyways thats my rant for this thread.

peoce and humptyness forever.

 

[McRocket]

so by your logic then brino maybe we should outlaw booze. wait a minute we tried that once and it fail miserbally. what went wrong you ask. well first of all it created a black market for booze and the people who profited were criminals (sound familier). secondly, much of the alcohal was unsafe (unsafe spirits not only blinded people but it killed also) thirdly, and this relates to my first point(sorry about the wierd sequencing) gangs formed and fought and killed over the distrabution rights of alchoale.

these are all symptoms that we are experiancing today on the streets because of the prohibition of drugs.

also it is silly to say that you are worried about the people in the bars getting out on the street and causing havic. THE PEOPLE USING HARD CORE DRUGS ARE ALREADY ON THE STREET. along with the drunks - i guess they got out of the bars.

at the very least if the drugs were legalized there would be the possibilty for the goverment to regulate its distrabution, tax its sales and releave the pressure on our prisons.

i am not sure if this has been mentioned before but because of mandatory minimumes some states are having to release violent criminals from thier prisons inorder to make room for drug affenders. THAT IS INSAIN in my opinion.

anyways thats my rant for this thread.

peoce and humptyness forever.

No, I did not know that about the prison releasing's. That is insane.

 

[McRocket]

Look, I respect your opinions and under other circumstances I might agree with you. The only reason I disagree with you is because you can't guarentee that innocent bystandards wont get hurt. You can't guarentee that the drugs will stay in the clubs and you can't guarentee that the people who get high in the clubs will stay in the clubs. Forget about the drug addicts, if they want to take chances with their lives then so be it, that's their perogative. It's the innocent lives that might be lost if the drugs/drug addicts got out of the clubs. Now you can use alcohol and drunk driving as an example of how innocent lives are already being lost and it's a valid point but, to use an age old saying, two wrongs don't make a right. That's what it comes down to for me so I'm afraid that were just going to have to agree to disagree.

Yes, but Brino. Are you saying that there would be more drugs on the streets with drug clubs then there are now?

 

[Brino]

Can I guarantee all this? No. There are no guarantees in life (usually). But I believe that my alternative is better for innocent civilians then the present one.

And btw, before 1914, all drugs were legal (as far as I know). Cocaine. Heroin. All legal. Coke even came in coca cola. I don't recall hearing all hell breaking loose back then due to drug use.
Oh, and I just thought of something. Even if your scenario were true and people were smuggling mass quantities of drugs out of the clubs to be sold on the street. At least then Americans would be profiting from there sale, not Columbians or Afghanisanies (the two number ones in the world for exporting cocaine and heroin, as far as I know). The money would stay in the country.

You have made your points and I mine. I guess all we can do is agree to disagree.

Your talking about 100 years ago, certainly your not comparing what it was like 100 years ago to what it would be like today.

Yes Foreigners wouldn't be making money off of the drugs but criminals might still be making money off of them. Organized crime might still be making money off of drugs.