Hunting
- Thread starter Jagger69
- Start date
member2686
Banned
He apparently pities your countrymen, saying that most Americans pity your countrymen. It's either that or that he pities most Americans because he failed to type the predicate "I do" between "like" and "most," meaning that he assumed that you were American and that he pities most Americans.
It's one or the other.
:dunno:
Anyway... Let's get back to hunting and not 2nd Amendment rights/gun control as the topic. I want to see what others have to say about it and further the discussion - not argue with people.
:nanner:
It's one or the other.
:dunno:
Anyway... Let's get back to hunting and not 2nd Amendment rights/gun control as the topic. I want to see what others have to say about it and further the discussion - not argue with people.
:nanner:
Tongue-in-cheek: Eliminate alcohol
Instead of trying to get people to realize the greater aspects of what they are saying, I've decided another approach ...
Why I think drinking should be outlawed (tongue-in-cheek)
http://board.freeones.com/showthread.php?t=71794
I could easily lambast and slam the irresponsibility of many members here on alcohol consumption, but I actually have the reservation in judgement not to. Which is why I think some of you are the biggest hypocrites when you talk about the "harm" hunting, gun ownership, etc... does.
Especially for those of you wholly judgemental and ignorant on this topic (among others).
And yes, I consider myself a prime example of American Libertarianism at its finest. Someone who doesn't even use (let alone abuse) his rights, takes his self-responsibility with the utmost integrity and dedication, gives of his own personal money to help people in an act of public and social good (instead of just hoping the government helps others on their time and other people's money), yet argues for the right of everyone to do what they want, even though some rights (like alcohol consumption) are abused to an extreme.
That's why I have pity on some of my fellow Americans, and even many more outside the US.
Instead of trying to get people to realize the greater aspects of what they are saying, I've decided another approach ...
Why I think drinking should be outlawed (tongue-in-cheek)
http://board.freeones.com/showthread.php?t=71794
I could easily lambast and slam the irresponsibility of many members here on alcohol consumption, but I actually have the reservation in judgement not to. Which is why I think some of you are the biggest hypocrites when you talk about the "harm" hunting, gun ownership, etc... does.
Especially for those of you wholly judgemental and ignorant on this topic (among others).
And yes, I consider myself a prime example of American Libertarianism at its finest. Someone who doesn't even use (let alone abuse) his rights, takes his self-responsibility with the utmost integrity and dedication, gives of his own personal money to help people in an act of public and social good (instead of just hoping the government helps others on their time and other people's money), yet argues for the right of everyone to do what they want, even though some rights (like alcohol consumption) are abused to an extreme.
That's why I have pity on some of my fellow Americans, and even many more outside the US.
I know I probably shouldn't get back into this. Just like some religious zealots I know there are too many people thinking with their emotions instead of their brain.
Hunting is necessity, whatever the reasons people do it for. It is necessity to maintain balance in the ecosystem. To those that believe otherwise I am going to tell you this as nicely as I can, you don't know what you’re talking about. Yes that situation is probably our own fault. However unless all of you that don't want to see all the fluffy little creatures die, start tearing down your cities, removing your houses, never driving a car again, digging up all the roads, and start planting grass and forest where everything used to be then we have to do what we can to take care of the situation. To the ones that concerned about it how about we start with your homes first. You could always live in some mud hut or shack out in the forest somewhere and survive, and you would be sacrificing for the little cuddly creatures you love. Won't you? You should immediately go for it. Now if you are unwilling to do that then you shouldn't complain about the need for people do manage nature as best they can. Of course we could always let nature take its course and have everything eat up all the trees in the area or all the crops for that matter before the population gets so out of hand that everything starts dying. Maybe they will even spread disease around, perhaps to the local livestock herds. Maybe if you are lucky you will get one of those damn deer to smack into your car a couple times a year causing thousands of dollars in damage each time, not to mention the rise in your insurance rates. I know since you all are going to give up your cars so we don't hurt the habitat of the creatures that won't be a problem, now will it?
Of course you are also willing to pay millions and millions and millions and millions and millions more dollars a year in taxes so some park service or natural resources department of a state can hire thousand and thousands of officers that it then has to then train, and send out all over the place to try to kill enough animals to keep the local populations in check. Of course they still probably wouldn't kill as many as the hunters do each year. With the hunters not only does the state receive money, money that could then be used for continual environmental protection, but also more importantly they don't have to spend an enormous amount of money doing what others actually pay them to let them do. This is a fact people who say hunting doesn’t provide much financial benefit don't ever take into consideration, because they don't think it through. It isn't just what the state gets, it's what it doesn't have to pay to manage it's own animal population with just it's own employees. If you told any conservation officer worth his salt that you think they should be the only ones to manage the animal herds they would probably laugh at you.
Now as far as myself I don’t enjoy killing. Having something die never thrilled me that much. I won’t lie I do enjoy hunting. It isn’t about having the animal die for me, although that isn’t the point. It definitely isn’t about the comradory, I don’t like hunting with a lot of people. If I do it is maybe with my dad and perhaps my brother once in a great while. It absolutely isn’t about waking up early and sitting in the cold ass sub zero degree temperatures for hours on end or strapping on a ghillie suit and sitting in the tall grass on a day that is hot as hell. It is about honing my skills and making the shot. Despite what some people might believe, targets are nothing compared to the skill you build up at shooting a living-moving target. I consider shooting a very important skill to learn. In my family it was as important as learning to read or write because it could one day save my life and the life of people that I care about. It improves my abilities. It is also about the fact that that is one less rabbit that is going to try to eat my cabbage that I planted, or one less deer that is going to eat my trees, or run into my car. I don’t know about you but I don’t feel like spending thousands of dollars to put fencing up around my yard to protect a five dollar tree when a couple of bullets will do the trick. It is about the fact that I actually get some meat to eat. Yes there is no way in this day in age that I can legally get all my meat from hunting, but every fish I catch and every animal I shoot means I have to pay that much less than I would have to otherwise. I’m sure a lot of you have a lot of money to blow and you are stuffing your face full of some food that came form some carry out place that you probably overpaid for while watching the television right now, I don’t.
Also understand that some people don’t think that animals are some righteous person with a soul that is going to have its essence wiped of the face of the Earth if you kill it. Some of you act like they went out and killed a person. IMO they aren’t pure. Purity is having the capacity to have hatred and evil and through spiritual introspection purging all of it form yourself, that’s purity, and nobody has ever been able to achieve that. A deer having no hatred is like a rock having no hatred inside itself, it’s nothing. It never had any concept to know what an emotion even means. To me an animal is a complex machine. To those of you that dislike the killing of animals do you also dislike somebody swatting a fly with a flyswatter? What’s the difference except for you thinking of animals as being cuddly little lovable furry creatures? Maybe we should stop making bread; I mean you don’t want to kill that innocent yeast that is inside of it when it is baked. It isn’t like we need to make it rise to eat it. What is difference here? Is it because it bleeds? Things like cowardice are irrelevant. It is just the most effective way of accomplishing a goal. Of course nature gave them teeth, claws, hooves, and the speed so that almost all of them can outrun us. It gave us intelligence and we use it to act smarter.
Why do some people find it fun? I don’t know I guess they all have their reasons. Maybe it is the thrill of the chase, or the friendship, or succeeding at a goal, which is the death of an animal. Killing animals is no more wrong to me than wrecking cars at a demolition derby. Of course the killing of animals has a lot more useful purposes. I don’t kill for fun myself, but I really don’t give a damn if some other person does it. Somebody might once in a while be wasteful and that is regrettable, but as long as they don’t harm the ecosystem why should I care why they do what they do? Because some people out there love their cuddly little animals? Give me a break. They are a resource just like any other. It is a resource that should be used, but not abused. I just don’t get it, but if some of you want to go and cry because Bambi was killed in the woods go ahead. I also find it ironic that in my experience the hardcore animal lovers are the people that more often than not don’t live in any rural area, don’t go into the wild very often, don’t have a good grasp of how nature works, and don’t know the conditions that people outside a metropolitan area face. I am sure they think they are so in tough with nature when they go to a Starbucks to talk about the fluffy little animals with their friends and maybe being able to see a couple of forest from their car when they take that trip to grandma’s house all the while saying, “The fluffy little animals, won’t somebody think of the fluffy little animals”.
Oh and Nighfly I noticed this while reading through this thread.
I not exactly saying you can’t or you’re lying. It isn’t totally outside the realm of possibility but you could see how I would be extremely…extremely skeptical of this claim.
Hunting is necessity, whatever the reasons people do it for. It is necessity to maintain balance in the ecosystem. To those that believe otherwise I am going to tell you this as nicely as I can, you don't know what you’re talking about. Yes that situation is probably our own fault. However unless all of you that don't want to see all the fluffy little creatures die, start tearing down your cities, removing your houses, never driving a car again, digging up all the roads, and start planting grass and forest where everything used to be then we have to do what we can to take care of the situation. To the ones that concerned about it how about we start with your homes first. You could always live in some mud hut or shack out in the forest somewhere and survive, and you would be sacrificing for the little cuddly creatures you love. Won't you? You should immediately go for it. Now if you are unwilling to do that then you shouldn't complain about the need for people do manage nature as best they can. Of course we could always let nature take its course and have everything eat up all the trees in the area or all the crops for that matter before the population gets so out of hand that everything starts dying. Maybe they will even spread disease around, perhaps to the local livestock herds. Maybe if you are lucky you will get one of those damn deer to smack into your car a couple times a year causing thousands of dollars in damage each time, not to mention the rise in your insurance rates. I know since you all are going to give up your cars so we don't hurt the habitat of the creatures that won't be a problem, now will it?
Of course you are also willing to pay millions and millions and millions and millions and millions more dollars a year in taxes so some park service or natural resources department of a state can hire thousand and thousands of officers that it then has to then train, and send out all over the place to try to kill enough animals to keep the local populations in check. Of course they still probably wouldn't kill as many as the hunters do each year. With the hunters not only does the state receive money, money that could then be used for continual environmental protection, but also more importantly they don't have to spend an enormous amount of money doing what others actually pay them to let them do. This is a fact people who say hunting doesn’t provide much financial benefit don't ever take into consideration, because they don't think it through. It isn't just what the state gets, it's what it doesn't have to pay to manage it's own animal population with just it's own employees. If you told any conservation officer worth his salt that you think they should be the only ones to manage the animal herds they would probably laugh at you.
Now as far as myself I don’t enjoy killing. Having something die never thrilled me that much. I won’t lie I do enjoy hunting. It isn’t about having the animal die for me, although that isn’t the point. It definitely isn’t about the comradory, I don’t like hunting with a lot of people. If I do it is maybe with my dad and perhaps my brother once in a great while. It absolutely isn’t about waking up early and sitting in the cold ass sub zero degree temperatures for hours on end or strapping on a ghillie suit and sitting in the tall grass on a day that is hot as hell. It is about honing my skills and making the shot. Despite what some people might believe, targets are nothing compared to the skill you build up at shooting a living-moving target. I consider shooting a very important skill to learn. In my family it was as important as learning to read or write because it could one day save my life and the life of people that I care about. It improves my abilities. It is also about the fact that that is one less rabbit that is going to try to eat my cabbage that I planted, or one less deer that is going to eat my trees, or run into my car. I don’t know about you but I don’t feel like spending thousands of dollars to put fencing up around my yard to protect a five dollar tree when a couple of bullets will do the trick. It is about the fact that I actually get some meat to eat. Yes there is no way in this day in age that I can legally get all my meat from hunting, but every fish I catch and every animal I shoot means I have to pay that much less than I would have to otherwise. I’m sure a lot of you have a lot of money to blow and you are stuffing your face full of some food that came form some carry out place that you probably overpaid for while watching the television right now, I don’t.
Also understand that some people don’t think that animals are some righteous person with a soul that is going to have its essence wiped of the face of the Earth if you kill it. Some of you act like they went out and killed a person. IMO they aren’t pure. Purity is having the capacity to have hatred and evil and through spiritual introspection purging all of it form yourself, that’s purity, and nobody has ever been able to achieve that. A deer having no hatred is like a rock having no hatred inside itself, it’s nothing. It never had any concept to know what an emotion even means. To me an animal is a complex machine. To those of you that dislike the killing of animals do you also dislike somebody swatting a fly with a flyswatter? What’s the difference except for you thinking of animals as being cuddly little lovable furry creatures? Maybe we should stop making bread; I mean you don’t want to kill that innocent yeast that is inside of it when it is baked. It isn’t like we need to make it rise to eat it. What is difference here? Is it because it bleeds? Things like cowardice are irrelevant. It is just the most effective way of accomplishing a goal. Of course nature gave them teeth, claws, hooves, and the speed so that almost all of them can outrun us. It gave us intelligence and we use it to act smarter.
Why do some people find it fun? I don’t know I guess they all have their reasons. Maybe it is the thrill of the chase, or the friendship, or succeeding at a goal, which is the death of an animal. Killing animals is no more wrong to me than wrecking cars at a demolition derby. Of course the killing of animals has a lot more useful purposes. I don’t kill for fun myself, but I really don’t give a damn if some other person does it. Somebody might once in a while be wasteful and that is regrettable, but as long as they don’t harm the ecosystem why should I care why they do what they do? Because some people out there love their cuddly little animals? Give me a break. They are a resource just like any other. It is a resource that should be used, but not abused. I just don’t get it, but if some of you want to go and cry because Bambi was killed in the woods go ahead. I also find it ironic that in my experience the hardcore animal lovers are the people that more often than not don’t live in any rural area, don’t go into the wild very often, don’t have a good grasp of how nature works, and don’t know the conditions that people outside a metropolitan area face. I am sure they think they are so in tough with nature when they go to a Starbucks to talk about the fluffy little animals with their friends and maybe being able to see a couple of forest from their car when they take that trip to grandma’s house all the while saying, “The fluffy little animals, won’t somebody think of the fluffy little animals”.
Oh and Nighfly I noticed this while reading through this thread.
Nightfly said:
I not exactly saying you can’t or you’re lying. It isn’t totally outside the realm of possibility but you could see how I would be extremely…extremely skeptical of this claim.
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As I always say, popular environmentalism is a religion, not a science.D-rock said:
And it does as much harm as the religious right does.
Ironically enough, I'm a dying breed in the US. The people having the most kids are either the middle class religious right (3.3 kids/family) or the poor or wealthy liberal left (3.5 kids/family). Middle class, liberatarian thinkers are having 1/3rd the number of kids (1.1 kids/family).
Which is why you'll only see more and more zealotry on both sides, instead of arguing about what is actually important or actually the "root cause." It's not about the facts anymore, it's about using select facts with omissions to match rhetoric with counter-rhetoric, etc... No one talks solutions, they just talk about what's wrong.
Nightfly said:
You and I find it repulsive for two different reasons. Most everything humans do is not necessary. I don't agree with wasting resources, but I can't point and judge at what can and can't be wasted. I find it repulsive because of what Prof V. said. I don't understand how someone can derive pleasure from shooting a living thing. A unique story of life ends with just a pull of the trigger. All those experiences over in an instant, because you decided that deer should die. I suppose I personify animals, but if you look into the eyes of a dear there is a mind looking back at you, a simple mind. And if the population is out of control, then the Parks Department should take care of it. Trained professionals.
Prof V said:
That's true, my opinion on this topic is skewed. But if you want to talk about respecting weapons, I respect weapons. And I respectively think all weapons should be destroyed. If hunters want to hunt, learn how to make your own bow and arrows. I find no honor in buying a weapon and using it. In fact I find no honor in owning, using, or building weapons. A device built for and used to kill, be it human or lower animal, is IMO the worst aspect of humanity.
D-Rock said:
That's what I'd like to do. But short of a Military Coup I don't have the power to do that. But you do know I'm trying.
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And to me, humans are as well (or, if you'd prefer, animals are not). Does that mean you wouldn't mind if I come knocking on your door, chase you around your house for a while, and then shoot you for no particular reason? Hell, it's even necessary if you look at how fast the human population is spreading and how much damage they do. Got to keep those little buggers under control, eh?
I'm guessing you would mind.
If they hunt them down for the sole purpose of killing flies, then yes. If they have a reason to do it, then no.
And I don't? I am very much pro-choice. The difference seems to be that I don't believe in letting people do anything they want if it'll hurt someone else. And yes, that goes for animals too. In fact, a lot of animals I've interacted with deserve to be shot far less than a lot of people I've met. You want to hunt for sport? Fine, go get some of your friends, sit down and discuss the rules, then arm yourself to the teeth and go out and shoot each other. There you go, I wouldn't object to that.
You want to hunt for meat? Fine. To keep the animal population under control? Fine. Because they are destroying your crops? Fine. But it's not a sport. You want to hunt because it's fun to kill? Then I hope you get shot so you can get a taste of just how much fun it is.
4G63 said:
...and then destroy them...
someone knows how to make a gun...i can offer him something to trade for that, and anyway, if the law(or whatever rule thing it is) were not to have guns, then only outlaws would have guns. who is to protect the law abiding citizens, the police cannot provide immediate protection, but this is off topic.
i dont want to pretend to be able to sway anyones opinion, but just felt like giving my two cents, or perhaps just one...
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You don't know how much I long for that, I really do.4G63 said:
But I live in the real world, and people want to kill Americans just because they are.
And no withdrawl out Iraq, end of using foreign oil resources, etc... will stop that.
If America drops its weapons, I hope you're not naive enough to recognize what would happen.
But who says your military coup would succeed in putting in a new administration that would work?4G63 said:
Who would all agree how we should proceed?
What should happen next?
What actually would?
The French v. Anglo-American history in the last 200 years is an excellent study in this.
One of my favorite lines in a movie is from Flight of the Intruder ...
Probably some of the wisest words ever written, from a Vietnam Vet, published in the '80s (I read the book well before the movie, although I don't have his words to quote directly).
The American form of government absolutely sucks.
But it has its balance, and it exists for a reason -- a reason I would argue is still better than any other.
And every American officer understands that is that they never set policy.
They only execute it.
To do otherwise would result in the aforementioned scenario.
It's at the heart of the US Constitution, that civilians will make policy.
And that policy is a 3-branch balance, even if the balances don't happen overnight, even if the end results are wrong.
And the US military knows this, they always have, they always will.
And it's why I can sleep at night.
The thought you suggest is far more scary than anything I've ever seen this government do.
I can understand your reasoning, but I hope you can understand mine.
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For those who love hunting for so called blood sports.imaging this,you have been set in the middle of a large field.I have three rott weilers.you now a have a twenty yard start,go!run for your life!how would that feel?sorry massively against.What gives us more rights to be on this planet,than animal's.we should all live together!
BDK said:
who the fuck said anything about sending 3 dogs after somthing. nobody hunts deer with dogs the only use dogs have is to track, retrieve, and spot and somtimes fight a cougar or boar posibly a coon they're mean as hell. so picture this im out in the middle of your field and your 3 rotties come running at me hope your not to attatched because out my pistol that i never leave home without comes and BOOM!! 1 dead dog then 2 more. huh man being the ultimate predator and at the top gives us the right and we do all live together just some of the animals die somtimes.
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