Hunting

[member2686]

This is simple - if you don't NEED to hunt to survive, but do so for pleasure, then there's "thrill-kill" involved, and people call it "sport." Why do people DENY that?

Do we go blasting away at cows and then rip them open to extract their milk? No. We "milk" them and let them live so we can get more milk from them. There are some people, however, who'd love to go bopping through the fields, blasting away at cows, though (if there was "cow season"), just so they could kill one and put its head on their living room wall above the fireplace. That validates them as a person, in their eyes. Sick fucks.

"I killed something. I'm a man."

Whatever. :thefinger

:2 cents: :hatsoff:

 

[Peter Gazinya]

This is simple - if you don't NEED to hunt to survive, but do so for pleasure, then there's "thrill-kill" involved, and people call it "sport." Why do people DENY that?

Do we go blasting away at cows and then rip them open to extract their milk? No. We "milk" them and let them live so we can get more milk from them. There are some people, however, who'd love to go bopping through the fields, blasting away at cows, though (if there was "cow season"), just so they could kill one and put its head on their living room wall above the fireplace. That validates them as a person, in their eyes. Sick fucks.

"I killed something. I'm a man."

Whatever. :thefinger

:2 cents: :hatsoff:

(Pauses, asks himself why the fuck he's still posting in this "going nowhere fast" thread, but he can't help himself so here goes)

Do you know how we often "get more milk from them"? On a dairy farm they often inseminate a cow so it will give birth calves, the only reason is so the mother will continue to produce milk. So they keep the calves around just long enough to keep her lactating and then they shoot the calves and bury them. I don't know if they mount the little calf heads above the mantle or not, I'll have to check on that one. But I'm sure they feel like "real men" after doing it.

Dammit dude, I know you're a highly educated person but again, on this subject your reasons, anecdotes, and analogies do more damage to your argument than good. I haven't read the thread yet but glk also seems to have pointed out a glaringly obvious case of flip flopping on your part as well. I don't need to point out again how I respect and enjoy reading your posts, I just think you gotta let this one go. The mean spirited, tunnel visioned way you're going on and on about this is starting to make me think there was some major hunting tragedy in your family's past that has really got your goat. Chill.......

 

[glk35]

(Pauses, asks himself why the fuck he's still posting in this "going nowhere fast" thread, but he can't help himself so here goes)

Do you know how we often "get more milk from them"? On a dairy farm they often inseminate a cow so it will give birth calves, the only reason is so the mother will continue to produce milk. So they keep the calves around just long enough to keep her lactating and then they shoot the calves and bury them. I don't know if they mount the little calf heads above the mantle or not, I'll have to check on that one. But I'm sure they feel like "real men" after doing it.

Dammit dude, I know you're a highly educated person but again, on this subject your reasons, anecdotes, and analogies do more damage to your argument than good. I haven't read the thread yet but glk also seems to have pointed out a glaringly obvious case of flip flopping on your part as well. I don't need to point out again how I respect and enjoy reading your posts, I just think you gotta let this one go. The mean spirited, tunnel visioned way you're going on and on about this is starting to make me think there was some major hunting tragedy in your family's past that has really got your goat. Chill.......

thats probly it lol somone shot his childhood goat and scared him for life.

just in case. "that was a joke"

 

[guide]

This is simple - if you don't NEED to hunt to survive, but do so for pleasure, then there's "thrill-kill" involved, and people call it "sport." Why do people DENY that?

Do we go blasting away at cows and then rip them open to extract their milk? No. We "milk" them and let them live so we can get more milk from them. There are some people, however, who'd love to go bopping through the fields, blasting away at cows, though (if there was "cow season"), just so they could kill one and put its head on their living room wall above the fireplace. That validates them as a person, in their eyes. Sick fucks.

"I killed something. I'm a man."

Whatever. :thefinger

Do you even know how cows are slaughtered they are fucking shot in the head. Now are you going to stop eating beef since some fucking bloodlust redneck who wants to feel like a man shot your dinner. Probly not so this is one of those "oh im on the computer so i can act like a big shot mister smart guy" when it boils down to it nobody really trully gives a shit. If someone wants to hunt fine its their time and money, who are you to say they are STUPID fuck all that. I eat meat but i dont say that vegetarians are stupid thats just a choice. I dont hear anyone trying to get anyone else to hunt, just expressing opinions. So shut the fuck up and unless you are going to give up eating all meats then you are the SICK FUCK.

whatever to you :thefinger

 

[glk35]

This is simple - if you don't NEED to hunt to survive, but do so for pleasure, then there's "thrill-kill" involved, and people call it "sport." Why do people DENY that?

Do we go blasting away at cows and then rip them open to extract their milk? No. We "milk" them and let them live so we can get more milk from them. There are some people, however, who'd love to go bopping through the fields, blasting away at cows, though (if there was "cow season"), just so they could kill one and put its head on their living room wall above the fireplace. That validates them as a person, in their eyes. Sick fucks.

"I killed something. I'm a man."

Whatever. :thefinger

Do you even know how cows are slaughtered they are fucking shot in the head. Now are you going to stop eating beef since some fucking bloodlust redneck who wants to feel like a man shot your dinner. Probly not so this is one of those "oh im on the computer so i can act like a big shot mister smart guy" when it boils down to it nobody really trully gives a shit. If someone wants to hunt fine its their time and money, who are you to say they are STUPID fuck all that. I eat meat but i dont say that vegetarians are stupid thats just a choice. I dont hear anyone trying to get anyone else to hunt, just expressing opinions. So shut the fuck up and unless you are going to give up eating all meats then you are the SICK FUCK.

whatever to you :thefinger

careful You Might get a flaming ban. but if you do then id like to see the originator of "sick fuck" get it too very uncalled for. doesnt show intelligence to me, but who am i just some dumb redneck.

 

[Member2019]

Now for the hunters. You sit quietly and wait for a unsuspecting victim to walk by then kill it without mercy. Your a sniper. I had a position like that in the Army and I think sniping is sick and cowardly. There is no honor and if you find it fun, I find you sick.

Whoa! Whoa! Whoa!
Wow, that was quite a stretch in comparison!
I understand your background gives you many feelings, but it's very inappropriate to apply it to hunting.

As for keeping numbers in check, that should be the Parks Departments job.

And as I said earlier, who do you think the National and State Park Services rely on? HUNTERS!

I'm starting to think this is the board of judgement and little else. And God help us if we're an American, hunter -- heck, Libertarian (because we're not "left-enough"!).

 

[om3ga]

I'm neutral on this matter.
For example, I disagree with whaling and was dismayed when Caribbean and African delegates to the International Whaling Commission meeting last year stated their preference to resume commercial whaling. I was also upset when I heard from the same conference of Japan's proposal to increase the scale of its whale catches in the name of "science."
However, regards fox-hunting - as someone pointed out to me in a debate about this subject, I live in a city and not in the country. To farmers, the fox is vermin who attack their livestock. New born lambs for example, are very vulnerable and whilst some lambs can be kept in sheds for some weeks to build up their strength, the majority of farms don't have this option.
I've also heard tales of foxes attacking hen coops, leaving a trail of devastation in their wake.

 

[glk35]

I'm neutral on this matter.
For example, I disagree with whaling and was dismayed when Caribbean and African delegates to the International Whaling Commission meeting last year stated their preference to resume commercial whaling. I was also upset when I heard from the same conference of Japan's proposal to increase the scale of its whale catches in the name of "science."
However, regards fox-hunting - as someone pointed out to me in a debate about this subject, I live in a city and not in the country. To farmers, the fox is vermin who attack their livestock. New born lambs for example, are very vulnerable and whilst some lambs can be kept in sheds for some weeks to build up their strength, the majority of farms don't have this option.
I've also heard tales of foxes attacking hen coops, leaving a trail of devastation in their wake.

also coyotes kill a lot of calves.
as for fox hunting and many other hunts it about tradition too not just taking your son or daughter out and making them kill its the time spent with family and friends. everyone can bet their ass that as soon as my son is old enough to hold a gun he'll be shooting and as soon as he is safe enough he'll be hunting. btw i am a hunting and firearms safety instructor just in case anyone wanted to question my credibility.

 

[Wildthingsolo]

:dunno: I'm for hunting. They die in the wild all the time from predators, were one of them!:dunno:

 

[Imagine]

Do you even know how cows are slaughtered they are fucking shot in the head. Now are you going to stop eating beef since some fucking bloodlust redneck who wants to feel like a man shot your dinner.

Be that as it may, I'm yet to hear someone refer to the activities at a slaughterhouse as a sport, and I'm quite sure that anyone who openly takes pleasure in putting a bolt through the skull of a cow would be considered somewhat unstable.

Against better judgement, I'll say something. I can't quite get over how many people actually support killing for fun. It's interesting to note that either none (or very few, I might've missed a post or two) of those posted here, or there is a lot of people doing the verbal equivalent of whistling innocently. "Hunting for sport" != "hunting for meat" or simply "hunting". If hunting for sport is what you're supporting, I don't think you have any right to be upset when people refer to you as bloodthirsty. I'm not sure how much closer you can get to the definition of "bloodthirst" than deriving pleasure from killing.

 

[member2686]

Like I said before, animals bred specifically for our consumption are an entirely different thing from someone getting their jollies by sniping a helpless animal in its natural habitat, IMO.

There's a reason that people call it "sport." They're trying to prove something either to themselves or to others. They want to "win." People who work in slaughterhouses are processing food and don't do it for the "thrill of the chase/kill." They do it to pay their bills - it's a job, not a contest to prove themselves as either marksmen or able killers.

BTW, calling thrill-kill-driven hunters "sick fucks" and not naming any member names here is NOT flaming. It's simply my opinion of the "pleasure-hunter community." Killing for pleasure IS sick, in my opinion, and it's sad, really. There are far better and noble ways to prove yourself as a person than by killing something else, especially while you hide in waiting with a gun and the animal only has its legs or wings or whatever to flee. It doesn't stand a chance to survive if you're a good shooter. It's ambush and cowardly on the part of the hunter, IMO.

If you want to see how good you are with shooting a gun, put an inanimate target on a tree in the forest and shoot at that or go to a target range. There's no need for killing anything or anyone to prove yourself as a strong, able, skilled, and talented person.

Anyway... We're not all going to agree on this issue, as I've said earlier in this thread, but certain gun-toters can't let this issue die, although they like to make other things (living ones) die - in their "sport."

My :2 cents: :hatsoff:

 

[Member2019]

Apples and oranges ...

For example, I disagree with whaling and was dismayed when Caribbean and African delegates to the International Whaling Commission meeting last year stated their preference to resume commercial whaling. I was also upset when I heard from the same conference of Japan's proposal to increase the scale of its whale catches in the name of "science."

Whoa! I'm getting really appauled at the lack of maintaining context.

I don't mean to cross you Om3ga, but there's a huge difference between individual hunters following the seasons and helping maintain population on a small scale and the large, organized commercial fishing industry who often looks for excuses to over-capture populations which puts a strain on the ocean ecosystem. This only further emphasizes my point that people who don't hunt don't stop to realize that hunters are actually interested in the long term livelihood of the species they hunt.

Once again, I will relate this to firearms. The most responsible people are hunters and gun owners. When people accidentally hit an animal or are in a position where they are powerless against a criminal with a firearm, they would be happy to have a hunter or gun owner at that time -- because they are not only responsible, but fully aware of what needs to be done.

The US media likes to focus on criminals with guns, and not the 1,000x as many responsible gun owners. Same deal in how they demonize hunters, yet are completely ignorant of the fact that the National and State Park Services appreciate hunters for what they do. Just like many Police Officers are happy that there are responsible gun owners out there.

Especially those never reported incidents where malice killers walk into an establishment, announce they are going to kill everyone, and a woman pulls out a gun and waxes them before they can. That's exactly what happened just outside of Atlanta the same day Columbine High School happened! Columbine was the result of irresponsible adults getting kids guns, not guns.

Same deal for hunters. They are some of the most responsible and knowlegeable wildlife experts you could ever meet. While most people will drive off after hitting an animal, the hunter will know whether or not the animal is worth saving or will put it out of its misery immediately. I've seen it first hand (no, I didn't hit the deer) and I was completely amazed how the hunter took several minutes to find out if the animal merely had a broken appendage or maybe a rib, or if they have far more serious internal bleeding due to a collapsed ribcage.

 

[om3ga]

Re: Apples and oranges ...

Whoa! I'm getting really appauled at the lack of maintaining context.

I don't mean to cross you Om3ga, but there's a huge difference between individual hunters following the seasons and helping maintain population on a small scale and the large, organized commercial fishing industry who often looks for excuses to over-capture populations which puts a strain on the ocean ecosystem. This only further emphasizes my point that people who don't hunt don't stop to realize that hunters are actually interested in the long term livelihood of the species they hunt.

Once again, I will relate this to firearms. The most responsible people are hunters and gun owners. When people accidentally hit an animal or are in a position where they are powerless against a criminal with a firearm, they would be happy to have a hunter or gun owner at that time -- because they are not only responsible, but fully aware of what needs to be done.

The US media likes to focus on criminals with guns, and not the 1,000x as many responsible gun owners. Same deal in how they demonize hunters, yet are completely ignorant of the fact that the National and State Park Services appreciate hunters for what they do. Just like many Police Officers are happy that there are responsible gun owners out there.

Especially those never reported incidents where malice killers walk into an establishment, announce they are going to kill everyone, and a woman pulls out a gun and waxes them before they can. That's exactly what happened just outside of Atlanta the same day Columbine High School happened! Columbine was the result of irresponsible adults getting kids guns, not guns.

Same deal for hunters. They are some of the most responsible and knowlegeable wildlife experts you could ever meet. While most people will drive off after hitting an animal, the hunter will know whether or not the animal is worth saving or will put it out of its misery immediately. I've seen it first hand (no, I didn't hit the deer) and I was completely amazed how the hunter took several minutes to find out if the animal merely had a broken appendage or maybe a rib, or if they have far more serious internal bleeding due to a collapsed ribcage.

I could have cited my dislike of seal culling instead of whaling. But on this matter I'm neutral (for the reasons cited in my earlier post), although some may accuse me of fence sitting (so be it, that's their opinion - it's not mine).

 

[Member2019]

If hunting for sport is what you're supporting, I don't think you have any right to be upset when people refer to you as bloodthirsty. I'm not sure how much closer you can get to the definition of "bloodthirst" than deriving pleasure from killing.

I think you just did it again! You label hunters who do it for sport as "bloodthirsty" not realizing that it has absolutely nothing to do with it. You have jumped to that conclusion, and that's why hunters get upset.

 

[Member2019]

Okay, apples and apples ...

I could have cited my dislike of seal culling instead of whaling.

Yes, that would have been far more related.

But on this matter I'm neutral (for the reasons cited in my earlier post), although some may accuse me of fence sitting (so be it, that's their opinion - it's not mine).

Fence sitting is what people do when they don't know enough.
That's actually being responsible.

I leave over half of my ballot empty when I vote.
But I show up, I vote and I only vote for people I'm sure would be good leaders.
People criticize me for being that responsible of a voter.

People say I'm looking to argue.
The funny this is that the only thing I'm constantly guilty of is defending other people from judgement.
Especially responsible people.

 

[Member2019]

The other morning there were ELEVEN deer in my back yard, grazing. I could have killed them all if I owned a gun and had bloodlust.

Once again, demonizing seems to be popular here.
You're basically saying hunters would do such, because they do it for sport and they have bloodlust.

Like I've send endlessly, overpopulation of deer REALLY isn't a problem of nature - it's a problem of US encroaching on their turf, then we bitch about it and start killing them, trying to justify that as legitmate "sport."

So what would you suggest?
We just stop using land, give it all back?
Just stop everything?

Or shouldn't we have responsible use of land, controlled population and guarantee we don't exterminate any creature or plant?

I really think people don't think that through at all.
Because they don't want to understand, they just want electricity and gas.
They don't put things into perspective, and recognize what happens in slaughterhouses as well.

There are so few hunters with "bloodlust" as you call it.
Just as there are so few gun owners who are criminals.
But you keep demonizing the whole becauase of a small minority.
Lump all those very knowlegeable and responsible people in with those irresponsible.

 

[om3ga]

Re: Okay, apples and apples ...

Yes, that would have been far more related.

Fence sitting is what people do when they don't know enough.
That's actually being responsible.

I leave over half of my ballot empty when I vote.
But I show up, I vote and I only vote for people I'm sure would be good leaders.
People criticize me for being that responsible of a voter.

People say I'm looking to argue.
The funny this is that the only thing I'm constantly guilty of is defending other people from judgement.
Especially responsible people.

Prof - honestly I'm not looking to argue (believe me, I've had my fill this week, and that enough for me).
As I said in my first post, I got into a serious debate about fox-hunting some time ago and got my head handed back to me, when a friend who used to lived in the countryside took issue with my "townie" attitude towards the "poor" fox. Suffice to say, it was a humbling experience.
You're right though - on hunting I don't fully know the hunter's viewpoint or the farmer's viewpoint - so I'll keep a neutral stance.

 

[glk35]

okay this is my last post in this thread unless somone else decides to insult me. Because im gonna get mad and i dont want to. hunters are hunters treehuggers are treehuggers plain and simple you will never find somone that respects the lands so much as hunters we have a moto and that is to leave the land better then how you found it. 85-90% of hunters do this we respect animals and life more so then the pussies that try and defend it do. we just have different views and backgrounds that have taught us these things. i am a hunter yes, i do get excited when i kill somthing ill stop hunting when i dont, but that in no way means i need to show my manhood to anybody. I love going to deer camp and spending time with friends eating and drinking the night before opening day and then waking up and going out for the first time in a year of waiting. im not a bloodthirsty person or want to proove myself to anyone. i just like to hunt period. whoever that has not hunted before its not as easy as the treehuggers make it sound there are a lot of elements that are left out. i bet you if one of these people were to go for a weekend they would'nt be able to make it. its not all about bloodlust and stupidity there is so much more to it. Learning how the ecosystem works, learning how to manage the land properly learning how and what the animals are going to do or how they live, its all part of hunting. And regardless of what some will say cows are not just crops they are living animals its not that easy to just watch a cow being killed. the people doing this do it yes to make a living and to also help us survive. it takes a certain kind of person to do this though. sure shoot a ear of corn from 2-300 yards fine but do that to a living animal could you. most people that oppose hunting could'nt i could nto because i love death and killing but because i know i and others need to survive. All of that being said why cant we all have our own opinions and just go on living doing what we love to do, for some hunting and for some not.

 

[4G63]

I think we should bet on how long this thread will last. I give it until Sunday night.

Good thing this is on the net, because somebody would have gotten shot by now.

 

[glk35]

I think we should bet on how long this thread will last. I give it until Sunday night.

Good thing this is on the net, because somebody would have gotten shot by now.

true that but i bet you it would be some jackass that didnt understand firearms that would shoot before somone that did. :eek:



oops did i just post again. sorry