Don't ya wish you had some guns?

[Johan]

 

[zeeblofowl_1969]

You failed to list the stories where an 8 year old finds his dad's gun and puts a hole in his sister, or when someone breaks into a gun owner's car or home, steals their gun and uses it hold up a convenience store or commit senseless violence. Those stories go tit for tat. Also, several of those stories illustrate the gun owners as porrly trained, as they they popped 4 or 5 rounds into their assailants.

If the 8 year olds parents had properly instructed their children on firearms this would not ever happen. But in our great tradition of hiding everything from children and then expecting them to make good decisions with no guidance whatsoever bad things are bound to occur. As to the great crime scenario, this is just a bad reason for any decision you cannot let people doing stupid things or the criminal element change the way you live your life otherwise you have no life they win. A gun is a tool plain and simple, it is made to punch holes in things, if used improperly it will punch holes in things you don't want it to.

 

[Shifty]

If the 8 year olds parents had properly instructed their children on firearms this would not ever happen. But in our great tradition of hiding everything from children and then expecting them to make good decisions with no guidance whatsoever bad things are bound to occur. As to the great crime scenario, this is just a bad reason for any decision you cannot let people doing stupid things or the criminal element change the way you live your life otherwise you have no life they win. A gun is a tool plain and simple, it is made to punch holes in things, if used improperly it will punch holes in things you don't want it to.

That's totally absurd. You cannot teach gun control to an 8 year old.

 

[Johan]

A gun is a tool plain and simple, it is made to punch holes in things, if used improperly it will punch holes in things you don't want it to.

A gun is not a tool. It's a weapon. It's made to harm or kill. It's made to punch holes in people, not things.

 

[PirateKing]

That's totally absurd. You cannot teach gun control to an 8 year old.

Actually, kids should be told about the consequences of firing guns and what they can do. Otherwise they'll end up playing with one without even knowing the danger of it. They should be familiar with the concept of death and that the trigger can "make a person dead". Show 'em a picture or a model of a gun, explain how it works. It's not pointless. Kids are dumb because we put off explaining important things because we underestimate their ability to to understand them. You don't have to wait for them to reach that cognitive stage. You can try to prevent your kid from coming into contact with violence or sex but eventually they're going to find a gun or see something sexual and their natural curiosity is going to take over.

 

[Shifty]

Actually, kids should be told about the consequences of firing guns and what they can do. Otherwise they'll end up playing with one without even knowing the danger of it. They should be familiar with the concept of death and that the trigger can "make a person dead". Show 'em a picture or a model of a gun, explain how it works. It's not pointless. Kids are dumb because we put off explaining important things because we underestimate their ability to to understand them. You don't have to wait for them to reach that cognitive stage.

No 8 year old on this planet should ever have access to a gun.

 

[PirateKing]

Not saying they should. But educate them at the very least. One of their friends might walk up to them one day and say "hey, I know where my dad keeps his gun. Wanna play with it?". These situations are inevitable.

 

[Mr. Daystar]

That's totally absurd. You cannot teach gun control to an 8 year old.

Yeah you can. All my friends that hunt, have children, and all of them understand that you don't play with guns, all of there friends that aren't exposed to, and instructed in the importance of such things, are almost hypnotized by the gun cabinet, and often ask to see the guns....these kids are the ones with parents that are anti gun.

A gun is not a tool. It's a weapon. It's made to harm or kill. It's made to punch holes in people, not things.

You're wrong, period. Fortunately though, you live in another country, so you don't have to worry about the evil old USA and our guns....unless of course the Germans come for you AGAIN!

 

[Shifty]

Yeah you can. All my friends that hunt, have children, and all of them understand that you don't play with guns, all of there friends that aren't exposed to, and instructed in the importance of such things, are almost hypnotized by the gun cabinet, and often ask to see the guns....these kids are the ones with parents that are anti gun.

revidffum, no disrespect intended but you need to put a bit more thought into this. Wasn't it you who pointed out an apparent lack of logic and reason on the board?

You quite correctly point out the fact that young people who know little of guns are most mesmerized by them. Yes, you're right.

This is precisely the problem. Again, it's a problem that you fail to see.

This is why 1) the young person figures out how to open the gun cabinet, 2) gets their hands on the gun, 3) playfully points it at a friend and 4) pulls the trigger. Because they are mesmerized by an object that is glorified by the very culture that you embrace. The average 8 year old lacks the maturity and intelligence to appreciate what a gun is meant to do and what it will do. A gun is not a toy, or is it?

Of course your friends are wise to instruct their children about gun safety, but NO you can never trust responsible handling of a deadly weapon to an 8 year old. If/when an accident should occur, then the parents are 100% culpable.

 

[Mr. Daystar]

revidffum, no disrespect intended but you need to put a bit more thought into this. Wasn't it you who pointed out an apparent lack of logic and reason on the board?

You quite correctly point out the fact that young people who know little of guns are most mesmerized by them. Yes, you're right.

This is precisely the problem. Again, it's a problem that you fail to see.

This is why 1) the young person figures out how to open the gun cabinet, 2) gets their hands on the gun, 3) playfully points it at a friend and 4) pulls the trigger. Because they are mesmerized by an object that is glorified by the very culture that you embrace. The average 8 year old lacks the maturity and intelligence to appreciate what a gun is meant to do and what it will do. A gun is not a toy, or is it?

Of course your friends are wise to instruct their children about gun safety, but NO you can never trust responsible handling of a deadly weapon to an 8 year old. If/when an accident should occur, then the parents are 100% culpable.

Come on, no board has REAL logic...there are to many people with opinions, and we know what that's like!
No responsible gun owner with children has a cabinet that doesn't SECURELY lock, nor do they keep the ammo in the same cabinet, or keep it unlocked. Most carry the keys with them, on their key rings....or have a safe. I don't even have any kids, and I keep my things in a 800lb fire resistant safe.
Part of teaching them that responsibility, is teaching them NEVER to point a gun, loaded or not. Never assume a gun is unloaded. And of course several other standard rules. Sure not every kid is mature enough, but some are, it's a case by case thing.Obviously there will always be sad and unfortunate accidents, but taking away the rights of literally millions of safe law abiding gun owners, because of the careless actions of a few, or the total disregard for laws and safety by more then a few, is just plain unacceptable.

 

[Sam Fisher]

Why so many in here are anti-gun, I'll never understand. Every gun owner in The United States has his or her reason(s) for owning firearms.

1. Collectors. I know some guys who only collect old firearms. They don't hunt, they don't carry concealed (maybe they do) but their hobby is strictly collecting. There is a lot of history in antique firearms.

2. Hunters. I have a lot of friends, male and female (including teens) who hunt regularly. Some hunt deer and elk, some hunt water fowl. And, some hunt upland birds and small game. Without hunters, the wildlife in this country would be a weak and most likely would die off. Hunters actually maintain the population of wild animals by harvesting them every year during hunting seasons. Hunters and Sportsman contribute over $14 billion to the U.S. economy each year. The money supports wildlife management and restoration programs, habitat ... etc. www.sdgfp.info/Wildlife/hunting/Info/C

3. Competition Shooters. This is huge. I know a few guys who compete in these events. They are probably better shooters than most law enforcement. These guys are extremely gun-safe minded. If you ever get a chance to see a shooting match, do so. http://www.uspsa.org/

4. American Gun Owners This group is made up of all the above and then some. I fall into this category. I collect firearms on a small scale compared to the REAL collectors. I practice my shooting as often as I can. I carry concealed as most of my friends do and, I'm sure there are a lot of others who fall into this category, as well as the a fore-mentioned groups, who also carry concealed. And yet, perhaps most of them don't. But that is a choice they make either way.

When I was a kid in high school, it was not uncommon to see several pickup trucks in the parking lot with a rifle on a gun rack in the rear window. Nobody freaked out, everyone just knew that the kid lived on a farm and that he was a hunter. It was perfectly legal, and the school didn't frown one bit. And guess what? From the time I was old enough to go to school, all the way to after I was out of school, there was never one school shooting in all those years. It just never happened.

I feel sorry for those in here who are afraid of guns. And, I pity those who think guns are the problem in today's society. Guns aren't the problem. Society is the problem.

 

[Zaxxxx]

revidffum, no disrespect intended but you need to put a bit more thought into this. Wasn't it you who pointed out an apparent lack of logic and reason on the board?

You quite correctly point out the fact that young people who know little of guns are most mesmerized by them. Yes, you're right.

This is precisely the problem. Again, it's a problem that you fail to see.

This is why 1) the young person figures out how to open the gun cabinet, 2) gets their hands on the gun, 3) playfully points it at a friend and 4) pulls the trigger. Because they are mesmerized by an object that is glorified by the very culture that you embrace. The average 8 year old lacks the maturity and intelligence to appreciate what a gun is meant to do and what it will do. A gun is not a toy, or is it?

Of course your friends are wise to instruct their children about gun safety, but NO you can never trust responsible handling of a deadly weapon to an 8 year old. If/when an accident should occur, then the parents are 100% culpable.

This exact scenario occured where I live just last week. Kid goes to buddy's house to walk to school. They fuck around with the fathers shotgun, and a 12 year old ended up blowing a hole in his buddies chest.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not at all anti gun. I am anti-dumbfuck parent thats not smart enough to lock the fuckin gun away.

 

[PirateKing]

This exact scenario occured where I live just last week. Kid goes to buddy's house to walk to school. They fuck around with the fathers shotgun, and a 12 year old ended up blowing a hole in his buddies chest.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not at all anti gun. I am anti-dumbfuck parent thats not smart enough to lock the fuckin gun away.

Locking a gun away makes it more difficult to get to it quickly in the event of an intruder, which is why people tend to leave it in easy to reach and unlocked places.

 

[Zaxxxx]

I get that...but in my opinion, the weapon should be secured when the parents leave the home. Like I said, I am not at all anti gun. I do believe, however, that a gun owner with juveniles in the home needs to take extra precautions to prevent these type of tragedies.

 

[Mr. Daystar]

Locking a gun away makes it more difficult to get to it quickly in the event of an intruder, which is why people tend to leave it in easy to reach and unlocked places.

If you have no children, maybe, but it still gives you an extra second to evaluate a situation, when you have to unlock a safe. I have a small, single gun safe next to my bed, cost less then $100, has a digital keypad, four numbers you pick, its open. If you can afford a gun, you can afford one of these. Sure if someone breaks in, they can walk off with it, but they'll have to break it open, and work a little to get to it. At least they aren't walking straight out with a loaded gun.

Don't EVER mistake my firm beliefs in ownership, and question of Governmental reasoning at laws, and attempts to regulate, for a firm belief that there is NEVER a shortcut when it comes to safety, and eduction. If you want the responsibility of carrying a gun, you better fucking well understand the responsibility of doing so....and you better know, if you draw your weapon, you had better be prepared to use it, and accept the consequences that go along with it. Just because it's your right to own a gun, doesn't mean you can't loose it by being careless.

 

[lurkingdirk]

A gun is not a tool. It's a weapon. It's made to harm or kill. It's made to punch holes in people, not things.

I can't entirely agree with you. Having worked on my share of farms, I can say that long guns are indeed, in many instances, tools. Even handguns can be tools, in the hands of service men and women. An officer with good training and instincts may use the simple presence of a side arm to diffuse various situations with no shots ever being fired.

However, I agree with the spirit of your statement.
:thumbsup:

 

[Shifty]

Why so many in here are anti-gun, I'll never understand. Every gun owner in The United States has his or her reason(s) for owning firearms.

Actually, I'm not anti-gun. I've owned guns in the past.

I'm anti-arm-an-idiot.

Collectors. I know some guys who only collect old firearms. They don't hunt, they don't carry concealed (maybe they do) but their hobby is strictly collecting. There is a lot of history in antique firearms.

I appreciate antique firearms, WW2 vintage in particular. If I did collect these, I would ensure that the firing mechanisms were disabled before storing them in my residence.

Hunters. I have a lot of friends, male and female (including teens) who hunt regularly. Some hunt deer and elk, some hunt water fowl. And, some hunt upland birds and small game. Without hunters, the wildlife in this country would be a weak and most likely would die off. Hunters actually maintain the population of wild animals by harvesting them every year during hunting seasons. Hunters and Sportsman contribute over $14 billion to the U.S. economy each year. The money supports wildlife management and restoration programs, habitat ... etc. www.sdgfp.info/Wildlife/hunting/Info/C

I am not a hunter. I hunted for a time, but I now have less than zero interest. I have no issues here. Hunting is well regulated and for the most part hunters indeed appreciate the responsibility that comes with owning firearms.

Competition Shooters. This is huge. I know a few guys who compete in these events. They are probably better shooters than most law enforcement. These guys are extremely gun-safe minded. If you ever get a chance to see a shooting match, do so. http://www.uspsa.org/

Again, no issue. Responsible enthusiasts.

American Gun Owners This group is made up of all the above and then some. I fall into this category. I collect firearms on a small scale compared to the REAL collectors. I practice my shooting as often as I can. I carry concealed as most of my friends do and, I'm sure there are a lot of others who fall into this category, as well as the a fore-mentioned groups, who also carry concealed. And yet, perhaps most of them don't. But that is a choice they make either way.

This is the problem. Too many of these people own guns just because they can, and too many can't be trusted with them. I will never support carrying concealed weapons. The Wild West is long gone. Carrying weapons in day to day life serves no purpose aside from establishing an undertone of violence.

I feel sorry for those in here who are afraid of guns. And, I pity those who think guns are the problem in today's society. Guns aren't the problem. Society is the problem.

I don't fear guns. I fear people. People who have guns. Neighborhood watch volunteers, for example.

Society is the problem. And an armed society is all too often the solution.

 

[Kingfisher]

That's totally absurd. You cannot teach gun control to an 8 year old.

I did. My 8 year old is a good shot out to 75 yards.

In addition, he knows all the repercussions of what happens with firearms. He knows what they can do as well.
Better he learn from me, than some idiot friend of his down the road. As a result he's smarter for it, and respects it.
He knows they are not toys.

 

[TheSpokenWheel]

If the 8 year olds parents had properly instructed their children on firearms this would not ever happen. But in our great tradition of hiding everything from children and then expecting them to make good decisions with no guidance whatsoever bad things are bound to occur. As to the great crime scenario, this is just a bad reason for any decision you cannot let people doing stupid things or the criminal element change the way you live your life otherwise you have no life they win. A gun is a tool plain and simple, it is made to punch holes in things, if used improperly it will punch holes in things you don't want it to.

That's the problem though. Irresponsible gun owners that don't do enough to keep the gun completely out of the kid's reach. As for educating them... they're fucking kids. When I was a kid, I was at my babysitter's house and she was making dinner. I walked into the kitchen, reached up over the counter and put my hand directly on the hot stove top. At that age, I still knew full well that stoves are hot and will burn you, but I did it anyways because I was a kid and I though "why the hell not?". I don't have children, but I'm pretty sure that no matter how many times I made it perfectly clear to my kids that guns are not toys and that they should never touch them, they still wouldn't fully get the picture. Your argument about it being a tool is borderline ludicrous. You own it to kill one thing or another. Be it an animal during a hunt or a criminal during a break-in. You could paint just about any inanimate object as a tool that way. My shoes are tools for keeping my feet from getting cut up. My TV is a tool for watching sports. A gun is a tool for killing people. It has other uses, but it's primary use is killing.

 

[Johan]

I feel sorry for those in here who are afraid of guns. And, I pity those who think guns are the problem in today's society. Guns aren't the problem. Society is the problem.

There isn't only one problem. There are many and guns are one of them.
Blaming on society just a way to say "I feel good the way I am, I don't wanna change. The others should change, not me".
Society is made of individuals and if individuals don't change, society won't change.