'Could We Blame Lack of Religion and the Liberal Culture of Death?'

[washingtonyrk]

No, but we could blame the fact it's piss easy to be able to get hold of a gun in your stupid country, you fucking idiot.

 

[Iamforever]

No, but we could blame the fact it's piss easy to be able to get hold of a gun in your stupid country, you fucking idiot.

if you mean by the " stupid country" america, then you have just made an enemy paluka.

what is this about anyway? you are too vague for even mensa to figure out.

 

[D-rock]

Or we could just blame the individuals who do things. I know it's a strange concept to some people, but it just might work.

 

[meesterperfect]

No just blame someone or something else, It will make us alll feel better.
I think this guy just needs some attention. He's reaching out.

 

[woy]

Easy gun purchasing and evil people.

 

[Senor_Cheese35]

Fact is, it was way too easy for him to buy the gun(s) and the ammo. I don't believe in gun control. We don't live in the wild west, let's try and establish a civilized world. Guns are terrible, especially in the hands of psycho's like Cho.
All guns should just be destroyed. If you need to fight and defend yourself, learn Muay Thai and Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu!

 

[gargaden]

Lack of religion ? More religious people are into guns than non-religious people...

 

[member006]

No, but we could blame the fact it's piss easy to be able to get hold of a gun in your stupid country, you fucking idiot.

Bitter little person aren't you?

Why not blame the only fact? The man was mentally disturbed and snapped. Damn, why do people go off on the gun thing? This man was very smart, they don't have chumps at VT, if we had no guns in this country at all or stricter gun laws with a wait. In a month he would have still been sick, then gotten the gun. The wait only works in cases of momentary anger, to make one rethink (cool down) doing something stupid. If there were no guns in the whole country he could have made a bomb, cut a gas line then tossed a match. Done any number of things for same result. :dunno: Nobody in my mind can say any one thing caused this. Its a mixed bag of things that lead a troubled person to do a horrible thing. Not any one thing lead to or caused this.

We all want to think he could have been stopped. Reality check will tell you that none of the blames could have changed things. As I see it, the only better outcome could have been a student or teacher dropping him before it went so far. Maybe had one of the other students had a gun, 30 would have lived? Ever think of that? We can rewrite scenario for this tragedy till the cows come home. Truth is it played out the way it did and that can't be changed. Will blame bring anyone back? No.

Only IMHO of course.

LL

 

[gargaden]

Having lots of college kids going to class and keg parties with lots of guns would be interesting to watch what happens:fight: .................

 

[member006]

Having lots of college kids going to class and keg parties with lots of guns would be interesting to watch what happens:fight: .................

:thumbsup: Great post if I could I'd rep ya'. Well thought out and informative, thanks.

LL

 

[Ax3C]

I know I'm bound to have some people disagree with me, but that's okay. I'll accept and respect your views as long you do the same in turn for me.

I served my country and have had to wound, maim, and even kill others in order to ensure my own safety and life. Did I think twice about it? No. I only did what I needed to do as a Marine. Am I happy that I took another life? Not at all. Were it up to me, I would've preferred not to have shot my adversary, but again ... to ensure that my fellow Marines and I were safe, I did what I needed to do.

With that said ...

I don't believe in gun control.

I DO believe in needing a better system to ensure that weapons are not sold to those who do not meet the criteria. I DO believe in licensing and trainer courses. As a lifetime member of the N.R.A., I firmly believe it is my right as a United States citizen to own a licensed weapon and operate it in a manner consistent with my intentions: weapons training and familiarity, target practice, and hunting.

I find it so infuriating when a tragedy such as what happened at V-Tech occurs and the critics all pour out of the woodwork like so many cockroaches.

The man was MENTALLY UNSTABLE. Killing 30-odd people in a shooting rampage most definitely indicates a short-circuit somewhere in that melon of his. Ditto for Charles Whitman; a former Marine sharpshooter who killed fifteen Univeristy of Texas students back on 01 August 1966. again, ditto for Lee Harvey Oswald, an EX-Marine (notice the difference in descriptions) who will go down in history for assassinating President John F. Kennedy. Better yet, George Hennard. He drove his 1997 Ford Ranger into a Killeen, Texas Luby's restaurant back in 1991 and opened fire with a Glock 9mm and a Ruger P89; killing 23 people and wounding some 20 others.

Do these three individuals stand out in anybody's mind as being SANE???

The reason I draw attention to these other three men is that all were trained in the use of firearms normally associated with the military. All had been diagnosed with some sort of mental instability that precipitated or caused or led to their respective atrocities.

Does this mean that I'm going to go out tomorrow and blow away my co-workers just because I was a Marine who saw combat, lost virtually all of my family, have suffered from clinical depression, and have had two failed relationships???

FUCK NO. I'm not crazy. I don't have any intentions on taking a life. For fuck's sake, I feel GUILTY AS FUCK for giving a black eye to a guy who's now DEAD.

I say all this to illustrate a salient point:

These atrocities and needless deaths have all been caused by individuals who have had verified histories of mental illnesses. Just because that ol' poor ass red-neck Jimmy Joe-Bob down the holler owns a 12-gauge over and under doesn't mean that he's going to flip out one day because Mary Louy didn't give him any the night before and go to the nearest Piggly-Wiggly and indiscriminately murder a whole grocery store full of people.

What it DOES mean is that we who practice gun safety and responsibility are being unfairly targeted and crucified because we condemn gun control laws. I've hunted every season my 37 years (except for these past four) since I was 14 years old. My father had no use for fire-arms. Instead, it was his brother who showed me how to be a responsible, safe shooter enthusiast and hunter. It was through my uncle that I gained wisdom and knowledge about how to kill a deer without causing it any pain or suffering. It was through my uncle that I learned that, just because I carried a pistol, a rifle, a shotgun, or even a compound bow, that didn't entitle me to abuse the privilege of what I had been given.

The Marine Corps taught me how to kill another man. Sadly, I was put into a situation where that training came into play on four separate occasions.

I'm licensed by the State of Texas to carry a concealed weapon (pistol) of my choice. Do I choose to do so? NO.

The United States Marine Corps taught me how to effectively fire, clean, and maintain an M-16 A2 semi-automatic rifle in the most shittiest of conditions. Do I own one? NO.

My love and enthusiasm for hunting has enabled me to purchase many a fire-arm and rifle and compound bow throughout the many years. Do I take any of those weapons with me when I go to the grocery store or to the mall or to Peggy-Sue Marie's house??? NO.

Why? because I practice what I preach. Gun safety. Responsible fire-arm ownership, maintenance, and safety.

The people we read about in the news who commit these crimes are either:

A. Mentally Ill;
B. Career criminals with no hope or love for the future or themselves;
C. The exceedingly evil who kill for the sheer pleasure and thrill of it.

They are the EXCEPTION rather than the RULE.

Most of us who own weapons of any sort are normal, down-to-earth, every day men and women who firmly believe in the unequivocable right to own a fire-arm and to use it safely and correctly.

Some are criminals ... and if there were a more reliable system in place to monitor who is able to purchase weapons, we more than likely wouldn't be seeing such stories and happenings.

 

[gargaden]

:thumbsup: Great post if I could I'd rep ya'. Well thought out and informative, thanks.

LL

This event was caused by a crazed person no dought. And if someone else had a gun maybe they could have prevented or reduced the end result, Maybe... The anti gun camp will jump all over this event,, thats expected,, but for all students to be able to carry guns to class because some think it would help protect from these events ( events that are few in number , but large in shock value) may be a disaster,,,,,,,,, don't you think more people ( students/ teachers) will die from accidents, arguments that get out of hand , heated moments ect , ect than the poor souls of VT if many students carry guns in the class room,let alone elsewhere on campus like parties ect..... This is a place of higher learning ,for sure, but college kids are still very young and at that age more tend to push the envelope of better judgement and common scense under normal times let alone parties ,booze ect

 

[ckjedi66]

The people we read about in the news who commit these crimes are either:

A. Mentally Ill;
B. Career criminals with no hope or love for the future or themselves;
C. The exceedingly evil who kill for the sheer pleasure and thrill of it.

Good point Q, but i quote Chris Rock, "Whatever happened to crazy? What, you can't be crazy no more? Should we eliminate crazy from the dictionary?"

Just had to throw some humor into the thread :rofl:

 

[member2013]

Certainly, ones homicidal-hatred for humanity could stem from living in the crippling-bondage, of a puritan-society, as well. The issue is humans not caring, or having any concern for you as an individual, and simply being in a power-play to maintain their own power, sense-of-self, and sense-of-existence.

Most humans today are, in fact, ‘cultural-savages,’ as you can define it. Hence, the debauchery, deceitful-charlatans, and rich-kids: in which Cho Seung-Hui, observed; and was railing against.

College life will continue on as corrupt as usual, I think that the school-shooter showed his own weakness, but even given a fuck-enough, to shoot up a school, and then him.

His, 'you made me do this,' to society, posturing, shows that he was attempting to make some grandiose point, on deaf ears.

 

[Kingfisher]

If it wasn't a gun it would have been a...
Knife.
Car.
Baseball Bat.
Rock.
Poison on free pizza.
Propane tank.

Get serious. The guy went through all the normal background checks that is required by law.
He was a insane A**hole. Blame the indivdual, not what he used. Only small minded, inept people blame an object.

 

[Roughneck]

don't you think more people ( students/ teachers) will die from accidents, arguments that get out of hand , heated moments ect , ect than the poor souls of VT if many students carry guns in the class room,let alone elsewhere on campus like parties ect..... This is a place of higher learning ,for sure, but college kids are still very young and at that age more tend to push the envelope of better judgement and common scense under normal times let alone parties ,booze ect

It is patently obvious that you are not old enough to have lived/grown up in large parts of non-urban America 40 years ago.

Consider this, posted by a man in this middle years:

When I was in college, further south and twenty years earlier than my nephew, we all had guns in the dorm and later, our houses off campus. I recall an incident one night during my junior year, when my friends and I were drinking beer and cleaning our guns, and as college students who have been drinking beer are prone to do, we ordered pizza. The delivery man came, and was shocked – shocked at the horrible scene laid out before his apparently yankee eyes – several men in their early twenties cleaning guns, drinking beer, talking politics, and generally having one hell of a good time.

So imagine our own shock when a half hour later a local policeman knocked on the door and said it was his duty to investigate a report of "guns and alcohol in the dorms."

The "incident" ended with the policeman giving us duck hunting and shooting tips on the local river, and inspecting the quality of our cleaning jobs on the various guns.

Or consider the words of Paul Roberts (a man I consider an aquaintance):

Guns have been around for a long time, but these crazy shootings are a new development that point to a failure of culture to produce people with a sense of responsibility and self-control. When I was a kid, a youngster could walk into a local hardware store and buy a gun. There were no restrictions. If a kid was so young that he couldn’t see over the counter, the store owner might call a parent for approval. We all had guns, and we never shot ourselves or anyone else.

One of my grandmothers thought nothing of me and my friends playing with the World War II weapons my uncle had brought back. My other grandmother never batted an eye when I collected my grandfather’s shotgun from behind the door and went off to match wits with the crows that raided the pecan trees or the poisonous cottonmouth snakes that could be found along the creek that ran through the farm.

My grandmother never worried about me until I got a horse, a more dangerous object in her view than a gun.

We also all had knives, which we carried in our pockets to school every day. We never stabbed anyone and very seldom cut our own fingers.

We often had fights, more often wrestling each other to the ground than fist fights. No one ever thought of pulling a knife or a gun on his antagonist. Parents and teachers did not exactly approve of fights, but they considered them natural. We were not arrested, handcuffed and finger-printed for being in a fight.

Except for war films, movie violence was rare. I still remember the shock we all experienced when the hero in a cowboy movie actually shot and killed the outlaw. Until that film, the hero would shoot the gun out of the outlaw’s hand, knock him out with a punch to the jaw, and deliver him rope bound to the sheriff.

I began my teaching career at Virginia Tech when the institution still had its Cadets. Students marched in uniforms with powerful military weapons that as far as I can remember still had firing pins. No one ever loaded a rifle and shot someone. Indeed, as a high school and Georgia Tech student, we had to take R.O.T.C. We knew how to field strip an M1 30-06 rifle and could have procured surplus army ammunition with ease, but no one was ever irresponsible enough to load one of the weapons. When we had marksmanship practice, it was at a firing range.

The change is in the behavior of people, not the presence of guns. Banning guns does not address the cause of gratuitous violence. We need to find the cause of the sickness in our society that produces people who deal with their problems by murdering others.

Only those who have never been exposed to guns and have grown up in seclusion consistently dismiss guns as "unimportant" and "not needed".

But for those of us who grew up with them and learned to use them before we learned to drive cars or jerk of to prono - guns at home are just another tool... and as "part and parcel of a home" as are knives in a kitchen and hammer and nails in the garage.

For too long have responsible gun owners been demonised as "radical", "red necks", "weird kooks" and "backwards" because of the actions of the unsavoury few. I remember buying each of my kids a peashooter for their 7th birthday. Later, as they grew older, more proficient (and responsible!); I taught them to handle my personal weapons - rifles, shotgun and handguns.

Do you blame your keyboard for your spelling mistakes and grammar? An acute analogy would be to blame alcohol and all those who consume it for the 10,000+ odd fatalities related to drinking each year!


"Bob drank and drove his car into a bus, killing three children. Who is to blame? Bob for being irresponsible by drinking and driving?

HELL NO! Alcohol! Ban alcohol! All those who drink the vile stuff are obviously evil!"


So now, thanks to "one" Bob, Tom, Dick and Harry can't have a beer after work.


Collectivists excel at this sort of moral manipulation.
The root of the rot set in our society is the increasing refusal of people to be held accountable and responsible for their actions.

"Pardoning" 1% for their misdeeds makes a mockery of the other 99%. It tells them that their struggle to stay on the right path is useless and pointless. Why struggle to "do good", when "doing bad" doesn't fetch you the blame nor the responsibility?

The consequence of this arbitration is the blurring of Right and Wrong - and the moral ambiguity and chaos we see in our society today. And given how some of us treat mass murderers by "blaming their tools and not the person themselves", I sometimes wonder how folks like Bundy and Dahmer were ever put behind bars.


cheers,

 

[Kingfisher]

You're a wise man, Roughneck.

 

[gargaden]

you make very good points. Most I agree with including the bad spelling ,I can't type for shit as well. But I do not blame the gun for this event, it was a very sick person. Although I do not own guns , friends of mine do and so responsibly. I was just worried that adding more guns to alot of young people , many of which probably did not have an experienced upbringing like you could create a whole new problem. This is not the first time idiots blamed responsible gun owners and it won't be the last. But you are wrong about one thing, Not all non-gun owners think that responsible gun owners are a bunch of redneck dopes ready to shoot anything. There are many ways to look at this situation , banning guns from responsible people is not one I was looking at.

 

[Iamforever]

im with axxxc on no gun control. bullets on the hand....



how do all of you know that this dude was talking about vt? am i partially blind? i missed that fact in the opening post.

 

[drdeath67]

im with axxxc on no gun control. bullets on the hand....



how do all of you know that this dude was talking about vt? am i partially blind? i missed that fact in the opening post.

Yeah could he have been more vague?