I'm pretty sure your taste has much to do with your perception of animals, but let's not forget... animals live in bad conditions EVERYWHERE. Very few animals are not subject to some type of environmental or predatory threat no matter where they live. In fact, we treat and kill them a lot more humanely than they ever would experience in the wild, where they will most likely still wound up eaten anyway.
Any Vegetarians or almost Vegetarians Out there?
- Thread starter Trinidad Gyrl
- Start date
I'm pretty sure your taste has much to do with your perception of animals, but let's not forget... animals live in bad conditions EVERYWHERE. Very few animals are not subject to some type of environmental or predatory threat no matter where they live. In fact, we treat and kill them a lot more humanely than they ever would experience in the wild, where they will most likely still wound up eaten anyway.
emceeemcee
Banned
Nope
Seems to be a big waste of time.
It isn't surprising really. I know people who eat even less vegetables than I do and they seem no worse or better off for it.
vodkazvictim
Why save the world, when you can rule it?
I LOVE meat. Isn't that right Stan? :lovecoupl
emceeemcee
Banned
unlike animal proteins those foods are all incomplete proteins and all contain various toxins. Some more harmful than others :2 cents:
I think using bodybuilders as an example of the supposed benefits of vegetarianism isn't very good. It's the long term health effects which are most important. Vegetarians have much higher levels of AGEs in their bodies than meat eaters do, for example. That's bad news as far as risk factors for cancer, heart disease and accelerated aging are concerned.
StanScratch
My Penis Is Dancing!
Never could figure out why some hillbillies get mad when they find out others are vegans. I thought personal choice was one of those basic human rights.
That said, I eat an occasional chicken and fish, but rarely (like twice a year) eat any ham, pork or beef products. They simply do nothing for me personally.
That said, I eat an occasional chicken and fish, but rarely (like twice a year) eat any ham, pork or beef products. They simply do nothing for me personally.
...but unfortunately, not everyone is as honest with themselves as you. Like I said, if you just don't like how various meats taste, thats one thing, but so many others use it to further their superiority complex.
'I eat better than you.'
'I am better than you as evidenced by my Whole Foods budget.'
'My diet is a direct shot at you both financially and socially.'
Food has always been a way for upper-class snobs to look down theor noses at those they feel are not at their level, and this is no different. Just like sexuality, people wanna be a brand name, no matter how ridiculous. Like I said before, being a vegetarian isn't good enough anymore, you gotta be vegan, or a raw vegan, or some bullshit like that.
Fruits - High in sugar, depends on fruit - can't eat fruit so no help there.
Vegetables - Depends what kind of vegetable.
Grains - Carbohydrates - can't eat carbohydrates after 5pm.
Nuts - great protein snack got that one right
Seeds and legumes - good snacks also
PAT NESHEK IS SEX. Left handed side arm pitcher for the Minnesota Twins. Favorite pitcher right there.
Nope
Seems to be a big waste of time.
It isn't surprising really. I know people who eat even less vegetables than I do and they seem no worse or better off for it.
Uh, that "study" (the source is at best questionable) basically concludes that vegetables, legumes etc are healthy. The only principle he dissents from is the quantity and quality (cooked vs uncooked) of said foods. It's basically an indictment of the US "food pyramid", which science has shown over and over again is at best a basic guideline for eating. This guy is basically making the case of "moderation in all things" all over again.
I am unaware of a single credible study ever performed that has summarily dismissed vegetables etc... as having no health benefit. In fact, quite the opposite is true. Just eyeballing the research from the past few years:
http://www.ajcn.org/content/78/3/51...INDEX=0&sortspec=relevance&resourcetype=HWCIT
http://www.ajcn.org/content/78/3/51...INDEX=0&sortspec=relevance&resourcetype=HWCIT
http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=878252
http://www.biomedcentral.com/content/pdf/1475-2891-3-5.pdf
http://www.sciencemag.org/content/311/5762/815.abstract
There's a tremendously well written book called The Spectrum by Dr. Dean Ornish that details roughly 15 studies into the benefits of consuming a diet rich in vegetables, fruits, and soy based proteins to startlingly healthy results. Bottom line is, this whole line of thinking that vegetables aren't healthy for you is unfounded poppycock.
TheOrangeCat
AFK..being taken to the vet to get neutered.
It's called a balanced diet. A little of everything = good.
But if emceeemcee wants to cut out most veggies, I say go for it. And, really ramp up the cheese, bacon, white bread and Doritos content of the diet too.
Srsly, one of the worst things you can do, diet-wise, is spend all your time worrying about your diet. is this bad, is that bad, will this give me three tits and gills?
I let my body guide me. I eat when I'm hungry only, I eat until I feel full only, I tend to select my meal contents on what I'm 'craving' (I'm using the word very loosely to describe the instinct you get when you want a certain food). In other words, I let my body lead, my mouth follows
My weight hasn't varied by more than a few pounds in 20 years, I rarely get sick, I am lean (kinda mean) and my energy levels are good.
Works for me.
Omnivore .... grazing into the future ....
But if emceeemcee wants to cut out most veggies, I say go for it. And, really ramp up the cheese, bacon, white bread and Doritos content of the diet too.
Srsly, one of the worst things you can do, diet-wise, is spend all your time worrying about your diet. is this bad, is that bad, will this give me three tits and gills?
I let my body guide me. I eat when I'm hungry only, I eat until I feel full only, I tend to select my meal contents on what I'm 'craving' (I'm using the word very loosely to describe the instinct you get when you want a certain food). In other words, I let my body lead, my mouth follows
My weight hasn't varied by more than a few pounds in 20 years, I rarely get sick, I am lean (kinda mean) and my energy levels are good.
Works for me.
Omnivore .... grazing into the future ....
emceeemcee
Banned
Which study are you referring to there? the EPIC study was published in the European Clinical Journal of Nutrition. I'm not sure why you would find that source questionable. The study found only a very small association between vegetable intake and cancer risk, and that was in the context of an unhealthy diet.
Legumes won't ever be healthy unless there is a huge about face and somebody finds out anti-nutrients, enzyme inhibitors, lectins and phytic acid are good for us. I'm quite confident that won't happen, unfortunately.
I'm unaware of single randomized trial which show the benefits of any of these supposedly fantastic compounds like antioxidants and phytochemicals. I have read plenty of things which suggest the exact opposite is true and they are useless.The fact that people can survive quite well living on nothing but meat and fat is a good indicator of unimportant fruit and vegetables are in nourishing and protecting us.
Any scientific report which suggests using soy and whole grains to improve health as one of your ACJN links does, should be treated with major suspicion. The evidence against those things is well established.
Ornish is considered to be something of a comical figure amongst many serious health bloggers and doctors. The research he uses to 'prove' the value of his formulated diet contains a gazillion other variables which he fails to account for, for example the subjects in his trials also stopped smoking and took up stress relief activities at the same time as embarking upon the diet. His diet was put up against Atkins and the AHA diet a few years back. Atkins came out on top in terms of weight loss and overall health.
http://med.stanford.edu/news_releases/2007/march/diet.html
I'm not arguing the specific benefits of phyto-chemicals etc... but the evidence is overwhelmingly in favor of vegetables and fruits having healthful benefits.
I am unaware of any criticism of Dr. Ornish that are out of the ordinary, and it seems to me his track record speaks for itself.
Bottom line is, you can split hairs, but the reality is still the same: vegetables are healthful entities.
SpexyAshleigh
Official Checked Star Member
I was vegetarian for three years. I ended up at the hospital, having lost too much weight and being deficient in several nutrients. Now I'm not saying that vegetarians can't work around that, its just that I couldn't work around it. My body needed iron (women need a bit more because we menstruate) and I needed more protein, and vitamins. So I started eating meat again, but I did it differently this time. I felt horrible about eating animals because I HATE knowing how their raised and killed...legalized animal abuse sickens me. So I did my research and found some local farms that offer organic meat...not the fake "organic" label that you see on some supermarket meats, but actual organic farms. And today, its all I eat. I don't eat meat at restaurants unless I KNOW what farm the animal comes from and that its certified free range, and I buy all my meat straight from the farm. The farms that I go visit, investigate and verify with my own eyes that its legit and animal friendly. Its seriously beautiful to see HAPPY cows, chickens and pigs, getting out in the sunshine, getting fresh air, getting to graze in clean fields rather than be crammed into a huge building, collapsing in their own feces and being fed bullshit infested, hormone infused crap. And I get to support my local farmers doing it, the ones who work harder for less money, only because they believe in their product and the way its been raised. Happy cows make happy burgers. End of story.
emceeemcee
Banned
Depends on what you definition of healthy is. If a healthy food is one that won't harm you (minus man made contaminants on vegetables) and may even ever so slightly give you some benefit, then it's fair to say vegetables are healthy. But clearly they are nowhere near as necessary for good health as we are led to believe. There is no evidence to suggest otherwise and plenty pointing in the opposite direction.
Fructose is bad news and the whole antioxidant thing looks pretty vacuous so I think it's inaccurate to regard fruit as healthy. It's just non-toxic up to a point.
Fiber, Vitamins A, C, E, and folic acid are contained in many fruits, and studies have linked regular consumption of such substances to a number of health benefits. Fruit with these compounds would thus be considered healthful.
emceeemcee
Banned
Only if you choose to ignore the effect of fructose on the body. There isn't anything healthy about fructose.
Actually, despite fructose, which the most recent research has concluded is in fact relatively harmless (of course normal disclaimer here - in moderation). Even if fructose was considered very harmful, the benefits of fruit tend to mitigate any negatives. Really, it's no different than the meat to saturated fat and cholesterol relationship. It'd be silly to dismiss fruit simply because fructose is "bad".
emceeemcee
Banned
Well, I disagree with the idea that fructose isn't considered harmful, I could fill this thread with studies showing what it does to the liver, it's affect on metabolism, obesity, kidneys, bacterial growth, heart health, diabetes, brain function etc.
I've never seen any studies showing that ALL of those catastrophic effects can be canceled out by the other constituents of fruit, especially with high sugar fruits. I would be very interested to see that if you have links. I have seen a study where honey was trialed against purified fructose and it did show a difference, but I don't think it was enough to really call it harmless. Maybe just less harmful than it's concentrated counterpart.
p.s what do you mean by the meat to sat. fat & cholesterol relationship?
Actually, as much as I personally love fruit, I wish that were true. My best friend has skin allergies to fructose, and has to watch his intake very closely. He still eats very little fruit, but the benefits of his intake doesn't outweigh the harm one bit.
Now, I do know that some fruits and vegetable, consumed raw or lightly steamed do provide some of the best essentials you can have, but not having them has shown no documented ill effects. Is it recommended? Yes. Is it vital? Well, they haven't shown to be. In the end, those who do choose a high veggie diet will see some benefit from it, but those that don't won't miss much if any, as the body adjusts to what it's conditioned.
emceeemcee
Banned
Who benefits from all this vegetable worship?
-vegetarians pushing their dietary agenda
-meat producers who justify gouging us at the checkout because next to vegetables their products should apparently now be considered an unnecessary extravagance
-the aristocracy because they get to eat meat more than we do due to high cost of animal products while we're stuck with peasant/famine foods. We get sick and unhealthy while they remain strong and capitalize on our weakness due to protein deficiency.
-farmers who grow the shit and big agri-business who supply them
-probably some other cunts
-vegetarians pushing their dietary agenda
-meat producers who justify gouging us at the checkout because next to vegetables their products should apparently now be considered an unnecessary extravagance
-the aristocracy because they get to eat meat more than we do due to high cost of animal products while we're stuck with peasant/famine foods. We get sick and unhealthy while they remain strong and capitalize on our weakness due to protein deficiency.
-farmers who grow the shit and big agri-business who supply them
-probably some other cunts
