Would you buy a Chinese Car ever?
- Thread starter sexyarabgirls
- Start date
Where did you get these information? It's all highly unlikely.
If they'd hired German engineers and Italian designers, they wouldn't have these problems getting their products on the European or Japanese market (plagiarism, safety issues, severe criticism from the ADAC).
And they're definitely not strategic partners with the "Daimler AG". In fact, the "Daimler AG" (amongst others like BMW) is pressing charges (for example against Shuanghuan) for plagiarism and industry espionage.
And btw, what is a "German Benz"? Is there any other "Benz" than the German one? The name of the company is "Daimler AG" (after one of the founders of the company, Gottlieb Daimler), the name of the car is "Mercedes-Benz" (after the other founder of the company, Carl Benz, and the daughter of a famous diplomat, race driver and car salesman who made the company's cars world famous in the 1900s, Mercédès Jellinek. Btw, Mercedes was sort of a term of endearment her father gave her, not her real name. Jellinek was her maiden name. The famous "Mercedes Hotel" in Paris is also named after her.)
And there's also a difference between "ethnics" and "ethics". As I assume you didn't mean that Japanese companies have established racially based slave-labour in China, you probably meant "work ethics" rather than "work ethnics".
Nonetheless, nice place, Buffalo, NY.
No! Not under any circumstances!
Britain was once not only the leading manufacturer but at one time was responsible for producing 70% of the entire world's output of goods.Clearly other countries (particularly those with larger populations) joined in the industrialisation game and did so with newer machinery , eventually overtaking her.But as late as 1914 she still had half the world's shipping and shipbuilding.
France would have been a serious competitor except that the Napoleonic wars had left her exhausted which had a very long lasting effect, Japan modelled its industry on the British system but Germany was the first country to overtake British output.This was inevitable as Germany had an excellent educational system and about twice Britain's population.
GM Said It Will Expand Auto Production In China With Purchase Of Car Plant.
Publication: Autoparts Report
Date: Friday, January 3 2003
Subject: Automotive industry, Transportation equipment industry (Management)
Company: Shanghai General Motors Corp. (Finance), General Motors Corp. (Finance), Shanghai General Motors Corp. (Management), Yantai Bodyshop Corp. (Mergers, acquisitions and divestments), General Motors Corp. Buick Div. (Management)
http://www.allbusiness.com/transportation/motor-vehicle-parts-manufacturing/431997-1.html
As someone who once lived in Detroit East side Jefferson Street,and Ohio, what I saw is the so called elite American who claimed to know everything and rounded up losing everything. Automobile industry is one of them. Arrogance only brings the end of western civilization.
GM indeed invested heavily in China automobile manufacturing plants.
Publication: Autoparts Report
Date: Friday, January 3 2003
Subject: Automotive industry, Transportation equipment industry (Management)
Company: Shanghai General Motors Corp. (Finance), General Motors Corp. (Finance), Shanghai General Motors Corp. (Management), Yantai Bodyshop Corp. (Mergers, acquisitions and divestments), General Motors Corp. Buick Div. (Management)
http://www.allbusiness.com/transportation/motor-vehicle-parts-manufacturing/431997-1.html
As someone who once lived in Detroit East side Jefferson Street,and Ohio, what I saw is the so called elite American who claimed to know everything and rounded up losing everything. Automobile industry is one of them. Arrogance only brings the end of western civilization.
GM indeed invested heavily in China automobile manufacturing plants.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/22/a...op/Classifieds/Autos/Topics/Automobile Design
New York Times stated the change of landscape of automobile manufacturing in China.
Enjoy. Want more reliable sources and reference. I can provide and support all the sources in the automobile industry.
Once again, arrogance and ignorance about other countries only bring the downfall of western civilization !
France stated clearly America already reached its peak and in its decline.
New York Times stated the change of landscape of automobile manufacturing in China.
Enjoy. Want more reliable sources and reference. I can provide and support all the sources in the automobile industry.
Once again, arrogance and ignorance about other countries only bring the downfall of western civilization !
France stated clearly America already reached its peak and in its decline.
Where did you get these information? It's all highly unlikely.
If they'd hired German engineers and Italian designers, they wouldn't have these problems getting their products on the European or Japanese market (plagiarism, safety issues, severe criticism from the ADAC).
And they're definitely not strategic partners with the "Daimler AG". In fact, the "Daimler AG" (amongst others like BMW) is pressing charges (for example against Shuanghuan) for plagiarism and industry espionage.
And btw, what is a "German Benz"? Is there any other "Benz" than the German one? The name of the company is "Daimler AG" (after one of the founders of the company, Gottlieb Daimler), the name of the car is "Mercedes-Benz" (after the other founder of the company, Carl Benz, and the daughter of a famous diplomat, race driver and car salesman who made the company's cars world famous in the 1900s, Mercédès Jellinek. Btw, Mercedes was sort of a term of endearment her father gave her, not her real name. Jellinek was her maiden name. The famous "Mercedes Hotel" in Paris is also named after her.)
And there's also a difference between "ethnics" and "ethics". As I assume you didn't mean that Japanese companies have established racially based slave-labour in China, you probably meant "work ethics" rather than "work ethnics".
Nonetheless, nice place, Buffalo, NY.
New York Times:
THE main language spoken at the Shanghai auto show is Chinese, but the vocabulary of the designs is polyglot: Italian flourishes, high Japanese roofs, German solidity, American assertiveness.
What is missing? Almost anything that could indicate the emergence of a distinctly Chinese school of automotive design.
China has the world’s fastest-growing auto market and has already overtaken Japan in domestic sales; it now trails only the United States. Both multinational and Chinese automakers have learned that it is a lot easier to build new car factories than to instill a new generation of Chinese designers and engineers with the sensibilities to have a lasting effect on global automotive design.
Chinese automakers like Chery, Great Wall, Landwind and others rely on Italian design studios to come up with concept cars that lend pizazz to their increasingly elaborate auto show displays. Production models remain similar to existing Western and Japanese models — sometimes suspiciously so, like the Chery QQ, a best seller here, which is similar to the Chevrolet Spark.
Such limitations are not stopping automakers from trying to determine what buyers in China really want. And with money and talent pouring into the industry, practically everyone here agrees that it is only a matter of time before China starts to become known for car design as well.
“Each country has their own vocabulary or tastes for design, and especially in China they have a very long history” to develop such tastes, said Katsumi Nakamura, president and chief executive of the Dongfeng Motor Company, a joint venture of Nissan and the Dongfeng Group.
With first-time car owners accounting for three-fifths of car buyers, the emphasis so far has been on showiness and providing lots of features that dealership employees can easily explain to customers. “The current perception of Chinese customers is: luxury means putting on wooden panels, the seat of the car should be leather, and a luxury car should have a sunroof,” Mr. Nakamura said.
The emphasis on flash and interiors has frustrated designers who want to foster a greater appreciation in China for the subtleties of exterior design. “We have to teach the Chinese a more functional Italian way to use a car — not just for status,” said Roberto Piatti, chief executive of Torino Design in Italy, which created the Lui sport utility concept vehicle and Lei concept coupe for Chery for the Beijing auto show in November.
Sometimes, Chinese designs are surprising. The Great Wall Coolbear concept vehicle, first shown in Beijing, was created by Chinese designers who flew to European and American design institutes for help and then ended up producing a high-roof vehicle reminiscent of the Scion xB.
At least one Chinese company has started showing a knack for savvy marketing, although its vehicle designs remain derivative. The classiest displays at the Beijing and Shanghai auto shows belonged not to a luxury brand like Mercedes or Cadillac, but to the Shanghai Automotive Industry Corporation, known as S.A.I.C. The automaker displays its British-influenced sedans on a large polished wooden stand akin to those used by Jaguar at the Detroit auto show.
Last year, S.A.I.C. acquired technological rights to the Rover 75 from the MG Rover Group, which is now defunct, while Nanjing Auto bought the rest of the company, including the fabled MG brand. Ford acquired rights to the Rover car brand to retain control over its Land Rover division, so S.A.I.C. has renamed its model the Roewe, which is also easier to pronounce in Chinese.
Rover was a decidedly middle-market brand, at best, before it went bust in Britain. But Roewe is being presented here as an up-market line. To make sure no one missed its European heritage in status-conscious China, the S.A.I.C. cars have unusually large badges displaying two regal lions. At the Beijing show, an enormous television screen showed a video again and again of Rovers being driven around country estates — although some of the estates looked more Mediterranean than British.
“We’re proud of the fact our I.P.R. has British heritage,” Phil Murtaugh, S.A.I.C.’s executive vice president said, using an abbreviation for intellectual property rights.
@lovejoy:
Your post says nothing I didn't know already. And it contradicts nothing I said. I never said China wasn't a growing market or things like that. And it may be that GM invests in the Chinese market by building or buying factories there but that doesn't mean that a Chinese car (not an American car made in China) is a good car to buy. The NYT article just wraps the fact that most Chinese manufacturers are know for plagiarism in such nice terms like "derivative".
I'm neither ignorant nor stupid and I don't care whether it is Germany, China, Japan or the United States that produces the most cars. I'm concerned about other things:
- some Chinese manufacturers don't care about legalities or intellectual and industrial property
- I don't want to drive my (Chinese) car in fear of either being killed if hit by someone at only 20 mph because the car is beyond unsafe or getting sick because of unhealthy or toxic materials used in the product. Not to mention the possibility of that happening to anyone in my family.
@marquis2: In the early time of mercantilism France definitely had a higher output than every other country in the world. The coming of industrialism and economics (Smith, Keynes, etc.) changed that. I looked up some numbers. You're right about the fact that Britain was one of the major players in the 19th and early 20th century, but even the most optimistic numbers aren't at 70% of the entire world's output of goods. Most industrial goods or woolen clothes yes, but most agricultural products came from Germany or Russia. Maybe the comparison and cross-reading of several sources would be useful. And maybe we should define the term "goods". In the German language there is a whole range of words for that, which would make a differentiation much easier. Let's say concerning "industrially manufactured goods" you're probably right about the time until the First World War. And concerning all things naval you'd probably have even ten years more.
Your post says nothing I didn't know already. And it contradicts nothing I said. I never said China wasn't a growing market or things like that. And it may be that GM invests in the Chinese market by building or buying factories there but that doesn't mean that a Chinese car (not an American car made in China) is a good car to buy. The NYT article just wraps the fact that most Chinese manufacturers are know for plagiarism in such nice terms like "derivative".
I'm neither ignorant nor stupid and I don't care whether it is Germany, China, Japan or the United States that produces the most cars. I'm concerned about other things:
- some Chinese manufacturers don't care about legalities or intellectual and industrial property
- I don't want to drive my (Chinese) car in fear of either being killed if hit by someone at only 20 mph because the car is beyond unsafe or getting sick because of unhealthy or toxic materials used in the product. Not to mention the possibility of that happening to anyone in my family.
@marquis2: In the early time of mercantilism France definitely had a higher output than every other country in the world. The coming of industrialism and economics (Smith, Keynes, etc.) changed that. I looked up some numbers. You're right about the fact that Britain was one of the major players in the 19th and early 20th century, but even the most optimistic numbers aren't at 70% of the entire world's output of goods. Most industrial goods or woolen clothes yes, but most agricultural products came from Germany or Russia. Maybe the comparison and cross-reading of several sources would be useful. And maybe we should define the term "goods". In the German language there is a whole range of words for that, which would make a differentiation much easier.
Let's say concerning "industrially manufactured goods" you're probably right about the time until the First World War. And concerning all things naval you'd probably have even ten years more.
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@lovejoy:
Your post says nothing I didn't know already. And it contradicts nothing I said. I never said China wasn't a growing market or things like that. And it may be that GM invests in the Chinese market by building or buying factories there but that doesn't mean that a Chinese car (not an American car made in China) is a good car to buy. The NYT article just wraps the fact that most Chinese manufacturers are know for plagiarism in such nice terms like "derivative".
I'm neither ignorant nor stupid and I don't care whether it is Germany, China, Japan or the United States that produces the most cars. I'm concerned about other things:
- some Chinese manufacturers don't care about legalities or intellectual and industrial property
- I don't want to drive my (Chinese) car in fear of either being killed if hit by someone at only 20 mph because the car is beyond unsafe or getting sick because of unhealthy or toxic materials used in the product. Not to mention the possibility of that happening to anyone in my family.
@marquis2: In the early time of mercantilism France definitely had a higher output than every other country in the world. The coming of industrialism and economics (Smith, Keynes, etc.) changed that. I looked up some numbers. You're right about the fact that Britain was one of the major players in the 19th and early 20th century, but even the most optimistic numbers aren't at 70% of the entire world's output of goods. Most industrial goods or woolen clothes yes, but most agricultural products came from Germany or Russia. Maybe the comparison and cross-reading of several sources would be useful. And maybe we should define the term "goods". In the German language there is a whole range of words for that, which would make a differentiation much easier.
Sorry-I did mention manufacture and I meant manufactured goods.We just got off to such a flying start that it took the others a while to catch up!
To get an impression of the disparity between Britain and France by the mid 19th century just read about the naval arms race between them.
http://home.freeuk.com/gazkhan/la_gloire.htm
http://www.hmswarrior.org/construct1.htm
Well early Japanese cars were well built, but rusted easily. Early Korean cars were not well built and rusted. The Japanese and Koreans build very good cars and it the case of Honda and Toyota some of the best on the road.
Give the Chinese time, they will be a factor down the road...
Give the Chinese time, they will be a factor down the road...
They are not "strategic partners" with major car companies because they are good, but because their government won`t let foreign cars in Chinese market unless they are manufactured in co-operation with their local companies.
"The best Italian car designers" is quite much to be said about a small desing studio of which hardly anyone had heard of before this deal...
But yes, they are doing their best to copy anything they can from foreing companies - and then building these copies at marginal manufacturing and investment costs compared to companies who did all the research and desing work and build their products in countries with more expensive labor.
Chinese companies and the word "ethics" are one depressing subject of discussion...
I actually try to do the best I can to not buy anything made in China (or any other place with bad working conditions) and I can say from experience it's pretty difficult, sometimes almost impossible. I go to the point where every non-food product I pick up (and I'm sure some of the food is from their also) I check to see if it's made in China. With some things it's nearly impossible to not buy something from there. It must have taken me over a year to find a source of underwear that wasn't made in China for example. Simple ordinary things are pretty hard also. With clothing it's possible but very hard to do. Even buying something like a pencil holder or a frying pan is hard. In any case almost everything made from a country that has decent working conditions is a lot more expensive and I know I'm fighting a loosing battle because nobody cares enough to spend a little more for what's best for the world. Still whenever I have a reasonable choice available to me I pick the item made here or at least in some country with good conditions.
angelfire1972
Banned
i got one....
i got one....
really what is it called?
Will E Worm
Conspiracy...
Buy domestic vehicles. Keep the money and jobs here, where they belong.
:hatsoff:
:hatsoff:
RealMenSwallow
Closed Account
I have before, but hell those matchbox cars were the shit!
