Why are Americans so afraid of Socialism?
- Thread starter lurkingdirk
- Start date
What bothers me about politics is that they get everyone yelling and arguing about democrat and republican, meanwhile no matter who is in charge, they keep taking away freedoms from all of us- because really we are all just peasants; they make the rules, we just take it up the ass- but hey, atleast we have the right to argue and complain with each other- atleast til they decide that its not good to do that- 
i am sorry all- i just have a really pessimistic(sp?) view on politics and government- i hope i'm wrong
i am sorry all- i just have a really pessimistic(sp?) view on politics and government- i hope i'm wrong
U.S. population in 1800 5,308,483
Allot less to worry about back then. Things have changed so much since then. I think allot of the founding fathers and what they gave to this country.
Thomas Jefferson -
It is neither wealth nor splendor, but tranquility and occupation which give happiness (I dont think both parties pay attention to this)
We confide in our strength, without boasting of it; we respect that of others, without fearing it (Does not ring the past 8 years)
I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around [the banks] will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs.
(A reminder of this current recession)
I'm going to ignore everything else you have gotten totaly wrong because it has to do with Soviet states that you keep confusing with Countries that did not exist as actual countries untill after the walls came down.
You didnt look at his economic models too well or you can't understand them because it is a complete economic system.
If you dont understand that reducing taxes but increasing the tax base generates more revenue in less time than target taxing those who invest in creating jobs and discouraging job growth then you do not yet understand Capitalism at all.
What Thomas Jefferson did not envision was a 4th branch of appointed Government (the FED) that has a strangle hold on the value of currency, inflation, and deflation. If the banks were also under the total control of the government the situation would be far, far, worse. Now if Jefferson were aware that the FED would have been created I am sure our founding fathers would have created provisions in our constituion so that the people could vote on who the govenors and chief of the FED are.
What ????????????????????????
You accuse me of not knowing anything about the former Soviet Union?
Bit rich coming from the likes of you who posted this rubbish, on message 86 of this thread!
Countries that make up Russia!
Hilarious stuff, Boob.
I'd love to know what countries you think make up Russia!
You haven't a clue.
Pray tell me what countries did not exist, until the walls came down?
John Nash developed the Nash Equilibrium aka Game Theory.
The Nash Equilibrium does not apply to taxation : it has nothing to do with taxation or the evolution of tax theory/methodology. It has no relevance.
Broadening the tax base AND increasing taxation based upon ones ability to pay that tax, underprins the progressive tax theory advocated at the outset of economic theory, in the 18th century.
The value of your country's currency is based upon a lot of variables, other than the FEd, amigo.
That's conjecture at best.
The people who allowed the banks to operate as they did, are to blame.
Greenspan, through his policies, allowed the banks to extend credit to people/institutions who should never have been allowed access to credit in the first place.
The lack of regulation which allowed investment banks to enter and operate in the retail banking sector was another disasterous policy.
The repeal of Glass-Steagall Act in 1999, by the Republicans, allowing savings banks to operate in deregulated markets, was fatal.
Well the current recession says different. The unfettered system now in place with little controls or regulations has created quite a morrass in this current timeline. Banks have had the ability to invest and gamble with credit and no real assests to back them up. AIG backed these Vegas style betting that the would not fail or require payback.
Without the fed and government infusion of taxpayers dollars it would have fell like a house of cards. "W" and Obama clearly saw this along with both party support.
Your last point would have been a great idea, but no one since his presidency has thought to do that or implement it.
Socialism = Welfare Democracy
Socialism = free public housing, universal health care, free university tuition, assisted child care, and sick elderly, maternal (paternal) leave during and after pregnancy for 1 year, 6-15 weeks off for sick leave (and post-surgical care), subsided public transit, generous unemployment benefits up to 8-12 months for short-term, and 2 years for long-term disability, sick leave to care for terminal ill parents, generous welfare system for anyone who are poor, and disabled including mentally ill.
Socialism = no death penalty, no long term prison sentence for anyone under 18, mandatory 30 years or less prison sentence for first degree murder (with or without parole after 7 years), and 7 years prison sentence for second degree murder
Socialism = 4-10 dollars gas per gallon ! Much higher personal and corporate tax ! New Federal sales tax besides state sales tax ! User Fee for parks and recreation ! and Health tax, death tax etc
Socialism = state-run airlines, state-run UPS, Fed Ex (why not if the Government is already running the USPS United States Postal Service, no more private hospitals, state-controlled liquor, beer board and outlets, state-controlled gambling halls (natioanlization of Las vegas casinos, the Las Vegas strips owned and operated by the US Government), state-controlled prostitition houses (the IRS did run the Rabbit in Nevada) and legalized prostitution (pay and play including hooker tax)
Socialism = state-controlled GM, Ford and Chrysler, Wal-mart and all top 500 companies
Socialism = free public housing, universal health care, free university tuition, assisted child care, and sick elderly, maternal (paternal) leave during and after pregnancy for 1 year, 6-15 weeks off for sick leave (and post-surgical care), subsided public transit, generous unemployment benefits up to 8-12 months for short-term, and 2 years for long-term disability, sick leave to care for terminal ill parents, generous welfare system for anyone who are poor, and disabled including mentally ill.
Socialism = no death penalty, no long term prison sentence for anyone under 18, mandatory 30 years or less prison sentence for first degree murder (with or without parole after 7 years), and 7 years prison sentence for second degree murder
Socialism = 4-10 dollars gas per gallon ! Much higher personal and corporate tax ! New Federal sales tax besides state sales tax ! User Fee for parks and recreation ! and Health tax, death tax etc
Socialism = state-run airlines, state-run UPS, Fed Ex (why not if the Government is already running the USPS United States Postal Service, no more private hospitals, state-controlled liquor, beer board and outlets, state-controlled gambling halls (natioanlization of Las vegas casinos, the Las Vegas strips owned and operated by the US Government), state-controlled prostitition houses (the IRS did run the Rabbit in Nevada) and legalized prostitution (pay and play including hooker tax)
Socialism = state-controlled GM, Ford and Chrysler, Wal-mart and all top 500 companies
No necessarily the case.
There is no state controlled liquor, board and outlets.
State-run airlines? very few in western Europe.
State run postal services? not necessarily.
Private hospitals are allowed in western Europe.
And the car industry is privatised too.
As with a lot of the things you mentioned I think this is another one which really has no realtionship to socialism.
Hardly any country in the world still uses the death penalty.
*note* - The Nazi Party was also the National Socialists Party.
Something to think about, pinkos.
Something to think about, pinkos.
*note* - The Nazi Party was also the National Socialists Party.
Something to think about, pinkos.
Come on man .... think about that statement for a couple seconds.
In American, as a general rule, the government has done a piss pour job of running any sort of business or activity. They tend to not be the most efficient. They don't create any growth. The only exception might be the state of Alaska where I've heard of citizens getting checks for their share of the oil revenue to the state.
The private sector has had a better run of things, as far as creating growth. Do they fuck up sometimes? -- Yes. Neither capitalism or socialism is perfect. They both have flaws. If I had to choose one over the other, I'd choose capitalism.
The private sector has had a better run of things, as far as creating growth. Do they fuck up sometimes? -- Yes. Neither capitalism or socialism is perfect. They both have flaws. If I had to choose one over the other, I'd choose capitalism.
i didn't read any of the posts, so i apologize if this is repetetive. i only answer the question presented.
its because socialism is too closely aquainted with communism, which is still fresh on our brains and our educational system's, which lacks in all aspects.
its because socialism is too closely aquainted with communism, which is still fresh on our brains and our educational system's, which lacks in all aspects.
Socialism is a major fucking disaster that strips one of one's independence and freedom!
Americans are afraid of socialism for one simple reason: It doesn't work. That's all. It has been a failure everywhere it has been tried. It looks like the Europeans have learned that lesson, judging from the elections over the weekend. It only took them about 60 years or so. :o
The reason socialism doesnt work is because the government cannot possibly have the knowledge necessary to allocate innumerable amounts of resources. There are too many resources. And people's desires are changing instantaneously. The knowledge is broken down into tiny little fragments and dispersed through the systemic interactions of millions of people each day. It cannot possibly be grouped and comprehended into the mind of one person or even into the minds of a very large group of people.
How much water should be used to make ice? How much water should be used for swimming pools? How much wood should be used to make baseball bats? How much wood should be used to make paper? How much of a certain person's labor is needed to produce a product? The only way these questions can be answered most efficiently is through prices. Prices give each person info on how much of what resource is needed or wanted. This is what a capitalist system does.
There are gradations of socialism and gradations of capitalism. THere has never been a completely capitalist nation nor a completely socialist nation. Even the Soviet Union had gradations of capitalism in its agricultural sector to keep food from spoiling. It seems to me that the preferal ratio for an economy is 90% capitalism and 10% socialism.
The reason socialism doesnt work is because the government cannot possibly have the knowledge necessary to allocate innumerable amounts of resources. There are too many resources. And people's desires are changing instantaneously. The knowledge is broken down into tiny little fragments and dispersed through the systemic interactions of millions of people each day. It cannot possibly be grouped and comprehended into the mind of one person or even into the minds of a very large group of people.
How much water should be used to make ice? How much water should be used for swimming pools? How much wood should be used to make baseball bats? How much wood should be used to make paper? How much of a certain person's labor is needed to produce a product? The only way these questions can be answered most efficiently is through prices. Prices give each person info on how much of what resource is needed or wanted. This is what a capitalist system does.
There are gradations of socialism and gradations of capitalism. THere has never been a completely capitalist nation nor a completely socialist nation. Even the Soviet Union had gradations of capitalism in its agricultural sector to keep food from spoiling. It seems to me that the preferal ratio for an economy is 90% capitalism and 10% socialism.
