Who is gonna win the NBA Finals!!!!!!
- Thread starter bigpapi777
- Start date
JizzHack said:
Well, LeBron James is my favourite player, so I guess you know who I am cheering.
Honestly, LeBron is not even the most important player on the floor tonight.
It is 100% Zydrunas Ilgauskas. With Sheed suspended for tonight's affair, that puts McDyess into the starting line-up. This means that both Antonio and Big Ben have to play Z soft, because if either one/both pick up quick fouls, this game is OVER.
I wouldn't count out the Pistons, but I think the Cavs pull this out.
How would've though Cleveland would ever lead this series? I bow down!:bowdown:
LeBron drops 40 tonight. Book it.
Black Star said:Well, LeBron James is my favourite player, so I guess you know who I am cheering.
Honestly, LeBron is not even the most important player on the floor tonight.
It is 100% Zydrunas Ilgauskas. With Sheed suspended for tonight's affair, that puts McDyess into the starting line-up. This means that both Antonio and Big Ben have to play Z soft, because if either one/both pick up quick fouls, this game is OVER.
I wouldn't count out the Pistons, but I think the Cavs pull this out.
How would've though Cleveland would ever lead this series? I bow down!:bowdown:
Correction, no Sheed suspension. It's Pistons by one at the break.
I doubt LeBron drops 40, but he's doing what he can. Gotta work on that FG% though, that's not the guy I know!:eek:
Lebron was good in the 2nd half, but he just couldn't get that 3 point play to fall. He gets those shots to fall and well....dammit.
kungfudude said:Lebron was good in the 2nd half, but he just couldn't get that 3 point play to fall. He gets those shots to fall and well....dammit.
I am really heartbroken. I mean, Sunday will be TOUGH, but I've got to have faith.
Still though:
Offensive rebounds!
Yeah rebounds especially at the end were killer. Great series though no matter what happens! :thumbsup:
Detroit and Cleveland are going to a game 7. How freaking crazy does that sound. Last time I remember Cleveland in ANY big playoff game Jordan burned them with that amazing shot they replay all the time. San Antonio and Dallas are also going to a game 7. The two previous champs survive a game 6 on the road to head home. Anyone want to bet they BOTH win at home? I am taking odds... Its going to happen 100% for sure short of another Sheed guarentee!!! ROFL! I will also wager that Phoenix wins at home against the Clippers at home for their game 7.
Home court in Game 7 means a sh!t load. Win or go fishin with Kenny Smith!
Home court in Game 7 means a sh!t load. Win or go fishin with Kenny Smith!
Black Star said:
Without Kobe this year, Lakers would have learned to play as a team, not players filling in the slots for Kobe. You would have seen increased (not rapid) development of their young guns including Vujacic who stepped it up in the playoffs.
Instead, it was Kobe Time (to the enjoyment of Black Star). Kobe trying to be the hero and try to match up to his buddy Shaq, who does have a regular season MVP and 3 Finals MVPs. Kobe is jealous of Shaq's individual success as ''the guy'' during their 3 titles and has looked like a fool when Shaq demanded a trade,(not to mention the rape charges and contract negotiations) and recently on TNT while in studio commenting on Barkley's selfish remarks and the #24 jersey change.
As for Nash, he will probably have to win 3 more MVPs in a row to get half of the respect some lesser-talented players receive. Mr. MVP is a team player who respects the game for what it is, a team sport and can see the court as good as anyone in the league. He might not be the first pick in a fantasy draft or pick-up game, but he definitely makes players around him better (Boris Diaw to name one):bowdown:
Sure Bryant's stats were unbelieveable this year I'm not gonna knock him for that. But Game 7 showed Kobe's true colors, a POMPOUS, ARROGANT INDIVIDUAL.:ban: throw up a few more times Black Star, it might help open your eyes
blingblingbosh said:
I disagree.
Without Kobe, the Lakers would have finished with one of the worst records in the NBA. And this whole theory that players would've developed better without him is bullshit. That's because the other Lakers are simply a collection of players that are meant to surround one main focal point!
Besides Lamar Odom(on occasion), no other Laker can create their own shot. They depended this year on the wide-open looks they got from Kobe collapsing and sucking in the D. Without him, the Lakers would've had to shot contested shots all year, unless Lamar somehow became the "next Magic" that people were predicting when he was drafted...or if Kwame suddenly channelled Shaq. Both are HIGHLY unlikely. Vujacic may have developed more, but it wouldn't have meant squat for the season.
And honestly, trading Shaq wasn't a half bad idea. I mean, let's face it, Shaq is a great guy and top 10 player of all-time, but he's on a major downslide. So what did the Heat do? Sign him to a $100 million contract, and essentially paralyze themselves in the cap department for the next 5 years. The Heat will only get worse, and are basically the Mavs from a few years ago, who ironically also had Antoine Walker. The problem with trading Shaq is that they didn't really get much in terms of the draft, which is where the Lakers will get the most help.
Hate him or love him, Kobe is a player willing to be the hero or the goat, which is something I can respect. As for the rape thing, the fact that he's still getting flack about that is ridiculous, IMO.
And by no means does Steve Nash suck, he is clearly the best PG in the L. He just doesn't measure up to either Kobe or LeBron in terms of MVPness. He gets entirely too much credit for players recording career highs in points.
The reason players score so much in Phoenix is partly Nash, but also partly D'Antoni's run-n-gun free flowing system. It encourages lots of fast breaks and jumpshots, because they essentially have no post players with the absence of Amare and Kurt Thomas. The bottom line is, if you can't get an assist on the Suns, you can't get one anywhere.
Boris Diaw is one player that I think benefited as much from simple playing time as from the abilities of Nash. He was the definition of under-utilized in Atlanta, and Phoenix was the fresh start he needed. Just getting confidence in himself helped a lot in his growth.
Not to forget Nash also has the help of perennial DPOY candidate Shawn Marion. He's a pretty good target to have running the fast break with you. Essentially, the Suns are a team of talented players who just all needed to find each other to make it work.
And what Game 7 showed was the paradox Kobe is permanently stuck in. If he scores too much, he's a ballhog. If he passes too much, then he's a pussy. So what did he do? He scored the 1st half, and tryed to get his teammates involved when it mattered most. The other Lakers simply just didn't make baskets.
You know what else will make me throw up? If one more person jumps off the Nash for MVP bandwagon and onto LeBron's because he's helped push the "unstoppable" Pistons to a Game 7.
:2 cents:
Well said Black Star. :thumbsup:
Let me just throw this out there.
If you compare Kobe's season this year to Jordan's best season of '86-87, you'll see a remarkable similarity with a slight difference in Kobe's favor. Keep in mind both these two were playing for noncontenders from the outset and they did what they had to do...to win. (Forgive me for yet another Jordan-Kobe comparison.)
Virtually the exact same statistical season.
MJ, '86-87: 37.1 ppg/5.2 rpg/4.6 apg
Kobe, '05-06: 35.4 ppg/5.3 rpg/4.5 apg
The Bulls that season were under .500 at 40-42, fifth in their division, and 17 games out of first place. They got swept in the first round by Boston, yet Kobe got the Lakers to play over .500 ball at 45-37, third in their division, nine games from first and push the Suns to a "win or go home" game in the first round… and Kobe gets dogged? Jordan was 2nd in MVP voting to Magic that year...yet, Kobe was 4th? His season is being held against him and Why? Simply bad public image AND the fact another guy had done it before him: Jordan.
His career is Jordan's in reverse really. Win early, struggle late. But Jordan never had to go through this. He never had to deal with this type of scrutiny, never had to deal with this type of hate. Kobe has had it tough and the comparisons to Jordan like this one have only made it worse for him. Had Michael Jordan never existed, Kobe Bryant might be the most celebrated basketball player in the world at this moment. (He has years on LeBron) But Jordan did exist and Kobe, to many, is just a cheap rip-off. Thats not really fair to a guy who can flat out dominate...without any help from his piss poor team. :2 cents:
Let me just throw this out there.
If you compare Kobe's season this year to Jordan's best season of '86-87, you'll see a remarkable similarity with a slight difference in Kobe's favor. Keep in mind both these two were playing for noncontenders from the outset and they did what they had to do...to win. (Forgive me for yet another Jordan-Kobe comparison.)
Virtually the exact same statistical season.
MJ, '86-87: 37.1 ppg/5.2 rpg/4.6 apg
Kobe, '05-06: 35.4 ppg/5.3 rpg/4.5 apg
The Bulls that season were under .500 at 40-42, fifth in their division, and 17 games out of first place. They got swept in the first round by Boston, yet Kobe got the Lakers to play over .500 ball at 45-37, third in their division, nine games from first and push the Suns to a "win or go home" game in the first round… and Kobe gets dogged? Jordan was 2nd in MVP voting to Magic that year...yet, Kobe was 4th? His season is being held against him and Why? Simply bad public image AND the fact another guy had done it before him: Jordan.
His career is Jordan's in reverse really. Win early, struggle late. But Jordan never had to go through this. He never had to deal with this type of scrutiny, never had to deal with this type of hate. Kobe has had it tough and the comparisons to Jordan like this one have only made it worse for him. Had Michael Jordan never existed, Kobe Bryant might be the most celebrated basketball player in the world at this moment. (He has years on LeBron) But Jordan did exist and Kobe, to many, is just a cheap rip-off. Thats not really fair to a guy who can flat out dominate...without any help from his piss poor team. :2 cents:
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Kobe has to make his team better, it took Jordan a while to learn that himself.
I really don't see how you give Kobe the favor in that season comparison. Jordan was in his 3rd year, Kobe is in his 9th. Not MJ's best year, but yes his best scoring year. The Bulls did get swept, but that Celtic team was legendary. They swept them the year before too.
Don't give Phil Jackson any credit for their success, he only has 9 rings to his name. Jordan had Doug Collins in his first year in Chicago.
The better comparison is with Lebron, who is getting better and better with each playoff game. SCARY! Give him just a little more help and the sky is the limit. This is a much less talented league than 1986. More athletic, younger, but less talented.
I really don't see how you give Kobe the favor in that season comparison. Jordan was in his 3rd year, Kobe is in his 9th. Not MJ's best year, but yes his best scoring year. The Bulls did get swept, but that Celtic team was legendary. They swept them the year before too.
Don't give Phil Jackson any credit for their success, he only has 9 rings to his name. Jordan had Doug Collins in his first year in Chicago.
The better comparison is with Lebron, who is getting better and better with each playoff game. SCARY! Give him just a little more help and the sky is the limit. This is a much less talented league than 1986. More athletic, younger, but less talented.
You didn't get the point.
The points I made were not to bring down Jordan or to say he's better, but to show, with a prime example, how Kobe gets very little respect for doing exactly what people ooed and awwed at in '86-87. He can't escape the damage of Kobegate no matter what he does. Even after carrying his subpar team to a respectable season.
Kobe is in a place no other basketball player exists. A damned if he does, damned if he doesn't place. Hoops purgatory. A place where he can't win. He deserved a little more respect than he got this year...as a basketball player.
The points I made were not to bring down Jordan or to say he's better, but to show, with a prime example, how Kobe gets very little respect for doing exactly what people ooed and awwed at in '86-87. He can't escape the damage of Kobegate no matter what he does. Even after carrying his subpar team to a respectable season.
Kobe is in a place no other basketball player exists. A damned if he does, damned if he doesn't place. Hoops purgatory. A place where he can't win. He deserved a little more respect than he got this year...as a basketball player.
Pux said:
I got that, but you also broke out stats and said you gave the edge to Kobe. I have been a Jordan fan since his days at UNC, so YES I am biased, but I also remember watching him grow and become that great player.
Kobe's season was VERY impressive on an individual basis, so was Jordan's.
People did ooh and ahh over Jordan, at the time it was the 2nd most points EVER scored in a season. But he also got knocked for not making his team better. For not being able to progress in the playoffs. Boston swept them those two years in a row. And the Pistons beat them up thosetwo years when they won back to back titles. They didn't ONLY ooh and aah over MJ. You forget the critisism, because it was years ago and Jordan had sooooo much success since that time. He had to fight thru Boston, New York, Indiana, and most importantly the Pistons and the Bad Boys, just to get to the finals and play the Lakers, Portland, Utah. Quite a few Hall of Famers on those teams. At that point he had zero team success and all individual success. But he learned thru failure to get it right. And got some help from Pippen and Rodman, among others. Then he was King of the Hill!
Kobe is a veteran, and has 2 or 3 rings. Once you have success, its expected of you to not only stay there but improve. He is getting better, but his teams are getting worse. He like Scottie Pippen, could not be happy with their team accompishments and wanted to be "the man", neither are or were good enough. Kobe gets exactly what he deserves. Just like Scottie did.
Like you said Kobe's career is in reverse. Jordans critisism motivated him, and is now seen as a stepping stone in a great career. I agree Kobe does get extra hits because of the off season stuff, and his image, but they are his creation.
When you win, people shut up. But every year every single team, but ONE, takes some heat. Jordan shut people up for 3 straight years, twice. It didn't erase that early stuff, but it sure made it less interesting to bring up. Kobe's last 3 years go from losing in the Finals, not making the playoffs, and then losing in the first round. They will only get off his case when he wins.
Kobe's season was VERY impressive on an individual basis, so was Jordan's.
People did ooh and ahh over Jordan, at the time it was the 2nd most points EVER scored in a season. But he also got knocked for not making his team better. For not being able to progress in the playoffs. Boston swept them those two years in a row. And the Pistons beat them up thosetwo years when they won back to back titles. They didn't ONLY ooh and aah over MJ. You forget the critisism, because it was years ago and Jordan had sooooo much success since that time. He had to fight thru Boston, New York, Indiana, and most importantly the Pistons and the Bad Boys, just to get to the finals and play the Lakers, Portland, Utah. Quite a few Hall of Famers on those teams. At that point he had zero team success and all individual success. But he learned thru failure to get it right. And got some help from Pippen and Rodman, among others. Then he was King of the Hill!
Kobe is a veteran, and has 2 or 3 rings. Once you have success, its expected of you to not only stay there but improve. He is getting better, but his teams are getting worse. He like Scottie Pippen, could not be happy with their team accompishments and wanted to be "the man", neither are or were good enough. Kobe gets exactly what he deserves. Just like Scottie did.
Like you said Kobe's career is in reverse. Jordans critisism motivated him, and is now seen as a stepping stone in a great career. I agree Kobe does get extra hits because of the off season stuff, and his image, but they are his creation.
When you win, people shut up. But every year every single team, but ONE, takes some heat. Jordan shut people up for 3 straight years, twice. It didn't erase that early stuff, but it sure made it less interesting to bring up. Kobe's last 3 years go from losing in the Finals, not making the playoffs, and then losing in the first round. They will only get off his case when he wins.
Good job, Pistons.
