What You Think You Know About Sept. 11

[D-rock]

1) They claim the WTC7 building fell down because of the terrorist attacks. (The only building of its size/structure, to ever fall because of a few minor fires, might i add) This was almost straight after the attacks... so how could they of got the explosives into the building to destroy it that fast?
unless of course.... they knew :thumbsup:

So, you think a large commercial airliner's entire payload of jet fuel burning in a relatively confined space to be a "minor fire"?

 

[dave_rhino]

So, you think a large commercial airliner's entire payload of jet fuel burning in a relatively confined space to be a "minor fire"?

Did you not read what i said?

WTC7... seven.. see the seven? the 7 at the end of WTC7? Seven/7...

WTC7 was NOT hit by an plane, therefore had no jet fuel burning inside it.
Why the fuck did it fall?
http://www.wtc7.net/

 

[Member2019]

Most of the conspiracy theories I've heard on 9/11 have about as much physical accuracy as the same ones on the faked moon landings. People let a few presentations that are not physically accurate change their view.

 

[Rattrap]

Well...conspiracy or not, most of what I've heard does point to the twin towers collapsing as they did by planes to be highly...unlikely. My mom's in the engineering field and she and a good number of co-workers sat around after 9/11 and tried to figure out how the planes could've taken down the buildings.

...they couldn't really figure out anything that made sense.

 

[D-rock]

Maybe people think Gorge Bush and Osama Bin Laden are actually secret buddies and have plotted together to take over the world and all this stuff about George Bush trying to kill him over the last few years has just been a ploy. All the things Osama has done to make people think he had anything to do with the 9/11 attacks is just a diversion to take pressure of of Bush, because of course if he was really who everybody thinks he is he would never let the U.S. government get off that easy with this whole thing when he could embarrass them by revealing the truth that he was never involved. In fact, the reason he has never been found is because he hangs out at the White House and plays cards with Bush ever Saturday. You know, because that is much more easy to believe then a bunch of terrorist decieded to attack some buildings.

 

[member006]

Well...conspiracy or not, most of what I've heard does point to the twin towers collapsing as they did by planes to be highly...unlikely. My mom's in the engineering field and she and a good number of co-workers sat around after 9/11 and tried to figure out how the planes could've taken down the buildings.

...they couldn't really figure out anything that made sense.

I don't know what the word is, but there is a "center" spot to everything that if hit just right can bring it down/ split it. They simply just "imploded" after being weakened by impact. Sorry, I see nothing amazing about them coming down at all. Those planes are huge. No big mystery in that I feel. IMHO of course.

 

[dave_rhino]

Maybe people think Gorge Bush and Osama Bin Laden are actually secret buddies and have plotted together to take over the world and all this stuff about George Bush trying to kill him over the last few years has just been a ploy. All the things Osama has done to make people think he had anything to do with the 9/11 attacks is just a diversion to take pressure of of Bush, because of course if he was really who everybody thinks he is he would never let the U.S. government get off that easy with this whole thing when he could embarrass them by revealing the truth that he was never involved. In fact, the reason he has never been found is because he hangs out at the White House and plays cards with Bush ever Saturday. You know, because that is much more easy to believe then a bunch of terrorist decieded to attack some buildings.

No one says they are "friends" or any bollocks like that, just do some reading man.

Mostly the conspiracies just say the government knew that they were going to attack, and let it happen so the USA could climb the ladder to "ruler of the world" even higher. With the war in the east, etc.
Because after all, why would any terrorist group not give a warning just before hand? otherwise any old terrorist group could jump up and say "oh yeah, that was us... yeah, we did that.. woo.."

 

[D-rock]

Because after all, why would any terrorist group not give a warning just before hand? otherwise any old terrorist group could jump up and say "oh yeah, that was us... yeah, we did that.. woo.."

Usually terrorist groups are smart enough not to give out any specific warnings on purpose before hand. It's hard enough to make the plan successful in the first place, if they told people it would be almost impossible, and believe it or not they aren't that stupid. They just like to brag about it afterward, and often there is in fact more than one group claiming credit after terrorist attacks. Anyway once they find out who is involved it wouldn't be too hard to trace who did what. That's part of the reason terrorist often leave video messages and other things before they go on their suicide runs.

 

[alexios]

I think I know that this has nothing to do with porn nor large silicone breasts and therefore is completely irrelevant to this board.

 

[lordvader1]

Did you not read what i said?

WTC7... seven.. see the seven? the 7 at the end of WTC7? Seven/7...

WTC7 was NOT hit by an plane, therefore had no jet fuel burning inside it.
Why the fuck did it fall?
http://www.wtc7.net/

You don't think that debris from building as large as the Twin Towers would cause a building to collapse? Did you read what I wrote about how other buildings in the vacinity were damages because of the collapse? Did you actually see where WTC7 was in location to the Twin Towers? I did, it's very possible for it to fall afterwards after that much damage.

As for the Pentagon, if a missile didn't hit and a plane didn't hit then maybe aliens used their phasers to blow up part of the buiding.

 

[pussypoppa]

Conspiracy or not the main thing is that people are branding "muslims" as terrorists after 9/11. As far as i know 9/11 wasnt a terrorist attack concerning Islam, Osama Bin Laden and Dubya Bush used to do business with each other when Dubya Senior was in office, and if Osama was involved in 9/11 this was because of a personal vendetta, nothing what so ever to do with Islam or what is going on in the middle east. As for what happened post-9/11 e.g London bombings, these people were brainwashed into acting such an attrocity.

 

[calpoon]

there have been several government conspiracies that have been exposed by research (Watergate, the recent NSA wiretap leak, to name a few). The ability of the public to uncover such covert operations doesn't discount them from having taken place, because they did, and continue(d) to do so afterward.

The thrill of the conspiracy theorist is to ravel together a complex sequence of events, in the hopes that they will be deemed as smart for being able to come up with such a brilliant notion. What's lacking in this jumble of coincidences is any intelligent reason for it, which is why they are able to keep coming up with these stupid theories.

Here's a conspiracy theory of my own based on the evidence presented in the Kennedy Assassination. Lee Harvey Oswald was trained to shoot by the US military. Oswald shot Kennedy. Based on this evidence, I've concluded that the Us military trained Oswald to shoot Kennedy.

There ya go. It took me 5 seconds to come up with, and I've presented a far more compelling argument for the conspiracy then any of the other one's I've heard about.

My point is that anyone can come up with a stupid theory...

But, all of the facts that are presented about how a questionable event (such as 9/11) took place can be entirely true, and that doesn't demonstrate that it wasn't orchestrated and carried out by the US government.

 

[pussy+dickdenice]

I think I know that this has nothing to do with porn nor large silicone breasts and therefore is completely irrelevant to this board.

This is Freeones, isn't it hellas? Why a board which is a supporter of free speech should restrict its members from debating issues on the board?

"Only Porn" will be a restriction, isn't it?

And if you talk about irrelevancy, there are lots of things those are irrelevant on this board with respect to some members. Like area specific music or films. If that is relevant, then why this one is not?

regards

 

[dave_rhino]

and often there is in fact more than one group claiming credit after terrorist attacks.

thats exactly why they give a warning before hand. Im not talking about days or weeks before the attack.. i mean like hours or minutes, so that there is nothing they can do, but then at least the government will know who is responsible and know who they should be worried about.

You don't think that debris from building as large as the Twin Towers would cause a building to collapse? Did you read what I wrote about how other buildings in the vacinity were damages because of the collapse? Did you actually see where WTC7 was in location to the Twin Towers? I did, it's very possible for it to fall afterwards after that much damage.

take a look at this.
http://www.wtc7.net/docs/la_fire_lg_c.jpg
this is the 1988 First Interstate Bank Building fire in Los Angeles, which burned out of control for 3-1/2 hours and gutted 4 floors of the 64 floor tower. This was EXTREMELY more severe than the fire in WTC7... and it didnt even fall down!

now this is the WTC7 building...
http://italy.indymedia.org/uploads/2005/04/wtc7-fires-close.jpg
look at those tiny fires. How could they be repsonsible for the only steel framed structure to collapse due to fire?

 

[Peter Gazinya]

Georges, what would you do if it was proven, beyond any doubt, so that even you believed it, that 911 was comitted by insiders and had nothing to do with Islamic terrorists. What would your reaction be.

It's impossible to tell what my reaction would be to something that hasn't happened yet but I can tell one thing my reaction WOULDN'T be. Surprised. I wouldn't be surprised that's all I can tell you.

I'm not sure what to believe on this one. The classic case against any kind of conspiracy is that for it to happen: a) There would have to be a motive toward achieving something and b) That our government is COMPETENT enough to come up with this very elaborate scheme involving alot of people, actually pull it off, and then have no one talk about it for 5 years running.

I do in a sense agree the motivation being to acheive a stranglehold on the nation's conscience while leading the lemmings to the cliff (having an ism to fight) BUT Everything else the Bush administration has done for the last 5 years displays a COLASSEL overdose of INCOMPENTENCE. I just don't see that buffoon and his wily band of cowboys pulling this off.

But anything is possible and if any type of "conspiracy" were ever proven beyond a shadow of a doubt, I would not be surprised.

 

[dave_rhino]

a) There would have to be a motive toward achieving something

there are some very good motives in these conspiracies. The main and probably most likely is simple: New World Order

In a David Rockefeller Statement to the United Nations Business Council in September 1994: "We are on the verge of a global transformation. All we need is the right major crisis and the nations will accept the New World Order."

another motive suggested: President Bush's popularity. After the attacks he took control and went after the "bad guy". That might make the American people see him as a hero, and a good president. (ha!)


An article on whatreallyhappened.com entitled "The 9/11 Reichstag Fire" suggests that the Project for the New American Century (PNAC) may have been responsible. It cites as evidence a statement from page 51 of a document titled 'Rebuilding America's Defenses: Strategy, Forces and Resources For a New Century' published by PNAC: "Further, the process of transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event - like a new Pearl Harbor."

(most of this copied from wikipedia)

 

[lordvader1]

I take that as an insult. I love America, I always have, I hate that I have to repeat this same thing over and over, but... I've been everywhere in this country, I love every part of it; just because I can't stand the government and think they're the biggest liars on the face of the planet says nothing about what I feel about America. I could say that, because you hate people attacking the military or bashing the government to the extent that I do, perhaps you hate part of America: the part called freedom of speech and opinion. But I don't think either of us hate America. We just define America very, very differently. I don't think THAT government represents us.





Fox

You say you love it here but I have yet to read a post by you showing the U.S. in a positive way. That's all I'm trying to say. I certainly don't hate freedom of speech and/or opinion I just think that people should learn to respect the country that has given back so much back to them. How many of us right now are roaming the internet at our own freewill? Can't do that in China or other parts of the world. They severely limit what you can do. Sure we have laws that don't allow us to do some things but the basics are ours to do with as we please. This government that so many of you despise allows us the opportunity to get on the net whenever we want. We can do countless other things here that are forbidden around the globe and people just bitch and bitch and bitch. You are right about one thing, I do hate it when people rip this country apart because you're tearing down freedoms that we so take for granted. I'm not saying the government is perfect and they do fuck up but at least I can show a little faith in my leaders once in a while.

 

[washingtonyrk]

What I think I know about it is that, even five years later, many Americans are still obsessed with it because it happened to their country.

3,400 died violently in Iraq last month alone, but sadly, they don't have time to obsess about it because they're too busy being scared how many are going to die the next month, and the next, and the next.

 

[FullMoonWolf]

What I think I know about it is that, even five years later, many Americans are still obsessed with it because it happened to their country.

3,400 died violently in Iraq last month alone, but sadly, they don't have time to obsess about it because they're too busy being scared how many are going to die the next month, and the next, and the next.

And the numbers keep growing. Of course, right now you don't really see any new footage from Iraq because all the news is about that Karr guy and his plane trip back to the States. Pathetic.

Our government is using fear to keep us over in the middle east. Lets say we caught Osama tomorrow...you really think everything would go back to normal? That Osama would appear before the World Court and be convicted or get the death penalty? That terrorism would end? I doubt it highly.
Look at the insanity of Saddam's trial.
Look how many lawyers were murdered over that.

The USA will never find Osama, because if that happens..The American people will want their troops home..and God knows, we can't let that happen, can we? I think its sickening that this country is full of the biggest and richest hypocrites. We say one thing and do another. We bitch that Hezbollah was using Russian-made rockets, but yet we sell ammunition, fighter planes and missiles to Israel. How is that right?
No one even tries to sit down and comprimise any more.
I think our government knew "something"was gonna happen on Sept.11th...but they were powerless to do anything about it.

By the way, I don't even remember the CIA finding the person that was mailing all those packages filled with Anthrax, did they? I guess they're still working on that one too.:dunno:

 

[georges]

Well, in Europe there's plenty of freedom, especially in certain countries, and to some degree more than in America (e.g freedom of press). Also in Australasia, parts of Africa and Latin America, lots of freedom, in many places on a similar level to the U.S. So it's not like we're the only one. I don't hate freedom and democracy, I love it: I just think THIS government will do anything it takes to stay "on top of the world" and is not to be trusted.

So like you say, can't do that in China. Right, to a point. But "or other parts of the world"? Wrong, there are plenty of places where you can. Freedom is not what's great about America, it's EVERYTHING, and we shouldn't have to give up some of what's great for this freedom everyone raves about, which in my opinion, doesn't cost our lives and us sending military forays into other people's lands, because I've lived in and visited so many countries that share similar freedom, but without any of the military offensives, global selfishness, or obsession with "we must fight for our freedom". Places where the media doesn't have such a hold on everyone that everyone things anyone is trying to "take our freedom away". South Africa was taking a lot of people's freedoms away (about 85% of the country) until the 90s, and we were one of their best friends. What does our government really believe in?

As for not reading one post about me loving America: there've been plenty. Mostly a long time ago, when I used to have to defend myself from this same claim all the time: you hate America. From Nightfly, if I remember. Anyway, maybe when I have time and my computer's not being as slow as a mofo, I'll look back and find one or two of them. I don't have time to go into all the reasons I love America now, nor should I have to, shouldn't it be obvious? I'm a free-thinking, completely-out-there, highly political, multi-ethnic, sports-loving, travel-loving, sex-loving, hot-women-loving, freedom-loving, democracy-loving musician. There aren't many places in the world that cover all of those bases though the damn sports need to include the Premier League sometime soon. Although I did just go to Tully's Wings and watch the Premier League Review Show, so it can't be all bad.

I do a lot more than bitch. I only bitch on the threads that I find something that moves me to speak out, which is anything about our military offensives, or that involves dicrimination against one group or person... I don't tear down freedoms, on the contrary: I want us all to be free to say whatever we think about our leaders... they are supposed to represent us. If we can't be honest about what we think about them and their actions, and when we think they're lying, then what kind of freedom do we have? If I can't campaign against our military and say they are like terrorists until we stop using them offensively, and purely for defense (for starters), then what kind of freedom do we have? It might not make me very popular, but is that not one of the reasons America IS great (like all the other countries where there is freedom of speech)... we are free to express those opinions, without being "punched in the face" (ha), or being told to "get out".

Peace to you, Vader. We live in the same country. Just because you don't respect the opinions of those that bash the crap out of our government, which doesn't seem very American of you, I'm not going to tell you you hate America. So just because I can't stand our government or what they do abroad (or domestically), don't assume I hate America. I went through a LOT of shit to move here because I love it here and I would go through it all again. If I live anywhere else it will be because I like to move around, not because I don't like it here. California in particular is insanely wonderful, the best place I ever lived by a million miles.

I'll show faith in my leaders when faith is due. When we have a Gorbachev, a Mandela, a Gandhi, another Clinton... I had faith in Clinton BTW... almost blind faith... so there. I don't hate all American governments, period. Just generally speaking. If you'd seen the things I'd seen around the world, the blood on our soldiers' hands, maybe you'd think less of our leaders too, maybe you'd even think less of those "glorious" soldiers some of whom we both call friends, but that you call heroes and freedom fighters, and that I call khaki-adorned terrorists. Note: I do not hate our soldiers or Islamic terrorists or anyone else - I just hate the things they do... i.e. following orders even when those orders are inhumane... and killing innocent people.

Fox

PS also, the California threads, the "favourite place in the world" threads, all go on about how much I love this and that part of America and why... you don't have to love a government to love a place... I can't stand Tony Blair, either, and Thatcher, who was our leader for longer than GWB will be leader here, I think was one of the great evil empirical leaders of our time, and I despise her.

Perhaps you never asked yourself the question if people hate or severely dislike leftist/socialist point of views.You are English but do you have the American citizenship? If no, then you aren't an American.
When a worthless organization like the UN fails and when a wannabe USE (united states of europe or europe of 25) fails too ask yourself the question what is better than USA for preventing problems.
Having the same far leftist/socialist/communistic views than Nightfly or Brino don't make you like USA certainly not but that is my opinion. Many countries in Europe lost a lot of what they had great and were ruined because of socialist or euromondialist false right wing politics and way of thinking. If you don't like America, then don't live in it and please stop bashing it.
What has Mandela done economically fopr South Africa? Nothing good.
Gorbachev was corrupt and he agreed to destroy the berlin wall not for the benefit of his own people but for money that went in his pockets. Russia was much safer under its URSS period. Today Russia is a paradise of mafias, corrupted politicians, where only older members of the GRU,KGB and other unhonest people have money. A big majority of Russians hate Gorbachev.
It is always people like Michael Moore that bitch too much about the government.
Pragmatism, realism, efficiency and organization are things that I value a lot in politics.
Unfortunately the left wingers in Europe are utopians, anti american, irrealistic and totally irresponsible people and they have clearly shown their untrustworthiness.