I don't know what this means for the auto industry, so what?
what does it mean that GM declared bankruptcy
- Thread starter Steve362850315
- Start date
They get a chance to restructure their debts (and reduce them), greater latitude for cost savings and an opportunity to offload and/or close parts of the business. Ideally they'll emerge both leaner and stronger. The worry is that they may be too small to compete as a result, that their debts (and in particular their pension liabilities) will be too large and that they may be too damaged as a brand.
GM outside the US is heavily dependent on Opel for their engineering. They are now only a minority shareholder (the majority shareholder is a Canadian car parts company backed by Russian money) and so this lifeline could be cut off.
Chrysler in the 1970's did is right
Rover in the 2000's did it very wrong
GM outside the US is heavily dependent on Opel for their engineering. They are now only a minority shareholder (the majority shareholder is a Canadian car parts company backed by Russian money) and so this lifeline could be cut off.
Chrysler in the 1970's did is right
Rover in the 2000's did it very wrong
Facetious
Moderated
Where's the first and second $350 BILLION dollar allocations totaling $700 BILLION that the government said that they would use to save select corporations deemed too big to fail ?. Neither the dem. nor the rep party members will disclose the terms of how this massive taxpayer obligation was distributed, if it was distributed as bailout at all. :dunno:
Why did the government allegedly shore up GM with bailout revenues knowing the inevitable bankruptcy would eventually come to fruition?
Answer: So that the government could take majority interest in GM (when obama became president) thus being able to control all operations i.e. in order to nationalize the transportation sector of the ecomomy. The govt under obama also had an ulterior motive to keep the union laborers happy and working in order to retain all of those union votes as well as the campaign funds derived from monthly dues.
Let's just say that the whole friggin American macro economy and nat'l debt is unfathomable in size.
I'm getting a headache now
JMO
Why did the government allegedly shore up GM with bailout revenues knowing the inevitable bankruptcy would eventually come to fruition?
Answer: So that the government could take majority interest in GM (when obama became president) thus being able to control all operations i.e. in order to nationalize the transportation sector of the ecomomy. The govt under obama also had an ulterior motive to keep the union laborers happy and working in order to retain all of those union votes as well as the campaign funds derived from monthly dues.
Let's just say that the whole friggin American macro economy and nat'l debt is unfathomable in size.
I'm getting a headache now
JMO
I guess the government didn't know that bankruptcy was inevitable. One of the largest companies in the country came, cap in hand, to ask for money to get it through the next few months. The government could either:
- Say "fuck off" let the company fold right then and there and watch as the whole messy process unravels
- Say "OK" put in the $billions, hope that this will be sufficient but at least give management the opportunity to place the business into Chapter 11 in a controlled fashion with the support of creditors, employees and major shareholders
It's the lesser of two evils.
If domination of the transport sector is his aim, why isn't Obama nationalising Ford ?
Mr. Daystar
In a bell tower, watching you through cross hairs.
It means, they won't have to pay all of the little shops that stamped out some of their parts, which means companies like the one I work for, that process those little metal parts, won't be getting the work, which means we, in turn, will lay off more people.
As for General Motors, it means if you are able to keep from getting laid off, or down sized...you now have a Government job.
As for General Motors, it means if you are able to keep from getting laid off, or down sized...you now have a Government job.
Bankruptcy is nothing but an inevitability for GM because the senior management was too stupid or too *greedy* to do what it needed to do to avoid Bankruptcy all these years. It needed to sell off Saab, Saturn, Hummer, Pontiac and Buick. For some strange, nostalgic reason GM is keeping Buick even though the only people under 60 who drive Buicks these days are the Chinese
Ford sold off Land Rover and Jaguar and avoided bankruptcy and got rid of William Ford, Jr. and hired a *REAL* Exec to run the company.
The private equity firm that bought Chrysler once Daimler kicked it to the curb, hired a failed idiot, Robert Nardelli, to run the company into the ground. It's no surprise that Chrysler ran into the arms of a real car company.
A GM consisting of Chevrolet, Cadillac and GMC can survive and thrive in America, providing GM stops designing overpriced gas guzzling SUVs and Trucks.
Gov't Intervention was needed in order to keep GM from destroying itself, basically...
Ford sold off Land Rover and Jaguar and avoided bankruptcy and got rid of William Ford, Jr. and hired a *REAL* Exec to run the company.
The private equity firm that bought Chrysler once Daimler kicked it to the curb, hired a failed idiot, Robert Nardelli, to run the company into the ground. It's no surprise that Chrysler ran into the arms of a real car company.
A GM consisting of Chevrolet, Cadillac and GMC can survive and thrive in America, providing GM stops designing overpriced gas guzzling SUVs and Trucks.
Gov't Intervention was needed in order to keep GM from destroying itself, basically...
Mr. Daystar
In a bell tower, watching you through cross hairs.
You forgot Cadillac. A Chinese company just bought Hummer in the last couple of days...I just heard something on the news recently. The problem was greed, coming from all sides. You can't expect a worker to see an executive get a 5 million dollar annual bonus, and not want, or expect a raise in salary or benefits. The vicious circle is completed, when the executives see their $30.00 plus dollar an hour employees, getting to sit around all day, because their contract says "it ain't my job". Or they take 1/2 an hour morning, and afternoon brake, but are entitled to 1/4 hour each, then take 45 or 50 minutes for their half an hour lunch break. I have seen this, I've delivered freight to a few GM plants, don't be in a hurry, because you aren't going anywhere. Ford was the same way. I personally think it was a mistake to bail them out...let them crumble, they brought it on themselves. Besides, something better might arise from the rubble.
It means GM Bankruptcy and restructuring is Obama's Vietnam War.
The real issue is the breaking up of GM is the deglobalization of the American icon and contracted its manufacturing down to 10 million vehicles a year !
But what it really means is slashing jobs, closing plants, shutting out dealerships, suppliers, professional support and affects everyone in Main Street.
It is a gamble that is doomed from the beginning to the end. It signals the decline of the American empire after the rapid rise in Second World War and shows the real color of the greed of corporate America (this includes the Unions, UAW and CAW).
Should a corporate CEO, senior VP. VP make millions, plus bonuses, corporate jet, stock options and the workers make over one hundred thousand dollars at GM (working OT on saturdays)?
The saddest part is the corporate N.America and the Union have not waken up.
I have no problem with selling the Hummer Division to the Chinese for 300 millions and save 2,300 jobs here in U.S.
But it shows the world America is no longer a superpower with disintegration of banking, insurance and now industrial decline all due to greed, abuse of power, internal fighting among management and workers, poor engineering design and lack of work ethics on all parts.
It signals the demise of United States into a second class country. :eek:
At a cost of 1.6 million dollar to save 1 job at General Motors !
Ford has 24 billion dollars cash and making a new dynamic Fusion S and Hydrid and beat Toyota last month.
Ford mortgaged everything to get the 24 billion dollars cash to stay afloat and worked hard to get Fusion S and Fusion Hydrid out to the market.
Obama is betting on GM to make small efficient cars and Volt electric cars.
It is a very high risk gamble.
member979979
Closed Account
GM just basecially pulled a John Delorean! Without the coke deal. Although that could have helped them.
Haha. That was awesome. You really can't fit too many keys of blow in the back of a DeLorean, eh? The Flux Capacitor takes up too much space...:dunno:
We will survive the GM Bankruptcy. Chrysler survived its bankruptcy in the 80s. People see FEAR everywhere these days. That's the product of living the past 7 years under Dubya/Cheney's "Homeland Security Terror Regime"....
America needs to MAN UP, basically....
The Paulinator
Spreading the seed
A standing ovation to you sir!
Someday, in America, (if only in my dreams) Americans will learn that begging the Fed for help will only cause more problems.
Who didn't know that the bailout money would only postpone bankruptcy?
The shareholders knew, that was why they either got out or stayed away.
Foreign interests knew, that was why they waited to offer buyouts of certain assets.
Congress knew, but they have never been known for their astounding wisdom in financial matters.
The White House knew, but the bailout was set up to protect union workers from having their contracts re-negotiated under section 1113 of Chapter 11, US bankruptcy code. Or so I'm told.
GM knew, but when one finds oneself in such peril, one tends to take any arrangement to relieve the problem, however briefly.
Is anyone to blame? The failure was inevitable, and a fresh, bright-eyed administration was eager to jump in blindly and try to help. Well intentioned, I hope.
But then it may be a purely evil attempt to nationalize transportation:dunno:
Depends on where you get your information, I guess
^
Err. By "man up" I meant we need to actually solve problems and not let "the invisible hand" of the market do more damage to America than it already has.
GM has not proven capable of making sound decisions anymore regarding building "forward-thinking" cars or simply running a company more fitting its present reality. 8 "brands" all basically using the same parts and platforms with the only difference being different badges and different options--maybe that was a shitty business model to exit in 1999, not 2009.
The Gov't is making the kinds of business decisions that GM needed to make 10 years ago.
I'll go further and say that Michael Moore was correct on CNN last night. Why does GM have to only make cars? Can't they make highspeed rail components too?
Err. By "man up" I meant we need to actually solve problems and not let "the invisible hand" of the market do more damage to America than it already has.
GM has not proven capable of making sound decisions anymore regarding building "forward-thinking" cars or simply running a company more fitting its present reality. 8 "brands" all basically using the same parts and platforms with the only difference being different badges and different options--maybe that was a shitty business model to exit in 1999, not 2009.
The Gov't is making the kinds of business decisions that GM needed to make 10 years ago.
I'll go further and say that Michael Moore was correct on CNN last night. Why does GM have to only make cars? Can't they make highspeed rail components too?
The US motor companies have all performed absymally both financially and in terms of their engineering/product quality.
For years, companies like Ford/GM operated in a virtual cartel in the US market.
This cartel was rudely interrupted first by the Japanese and then the European manufacturers - who both produced better performing/quality cars than their US rivals.
The likes of GM failed to respond when the challenge was first put to them (over 20 years ago) and there is absolutely no excuse for their demise except to say that they failed.
As regards America's financial position - they're in the manure.
Spiralling balance of payments deficits, fiscal deficits, trade deficits, soaring levels of personal/corporate debt.
Basket case.
For years, companies like Ford/GM operated in a virtual cartel in the US market.
This cartel was rudely interrupted first by the Japanese and then the European manufacturers - who both produced better performing/quality cars than their US rivals.
The likes of GM failed to respond when the challenge was first put to them (over 20 years ago) and there is absolutely no excuse for their demise except to say that they failed.
As regards America's financial position - they're in the manure.
Spiralling balance of payments deficits, fiscal deficits, trade deficits, soaring levels of personal/corporate debt.
Basket case.
Facetious
Moderated
Let's just call it a "convenient fringe benefit", this nationalization of General Motors.
If anybody has it all figured out, he does.
:uohs:A rather crafty 'lil fella isn't he ? always looking for opportunities to fast track u.s. into a socialized economy, dammit !
Similarly, fannie (Federal National Mortgage Assn) & freddie (Federal Home Loan Mortgage Corp.) made way for the government to come so ever close to nationalizing the banks. What did they know and when did they know all of the foreclosures would register (?)
Let's see, what hasn't the government yet nationalized ?
Health Care
One could argue that the government made laws which made it mandatory for hospitals to treat anybody and everybody (illegal aliens included) no matter if they had the ability to pay or not. Obviously, with the lack of receivables ($$$), the private sector hospitals would eventually go bankrupt, as they are today and the government will swoop in and nationalize the hospitals. Do you see a pattern here ?
Let's see what's left . . oh yeah the energy sector - The obama admin will not allow this nations' oil corps. to drill any additional resources ; there's plenty of oil to be acquired in our own American territory, but under some bogus b.s. environmental laws as well as obama's unwillingness to press the issue, we will spend a non cost effective amount of additional future tax payer obligations to chase after unfounded reliability in alternative energy resources in order to suppliement our nations' energy requirements.
Ain't gonna happen !
Becoming bankrupt, due to intended and atrocious governmental policies, the oil companies will come and beg for the government to bail them out, thus nationalizing the energy sector.
Are we communists yet ?
:sigh:
The goverment didn't make GM bankrupt.
GM was the maker of it's own destiny.
Poor product and abysmal financial management.
It's funny reading all this talk about communism.
Fact is that the capitalist system has, for better or more probably worse, brought the US to the situation it is now in.
GM was the maker of it's own destiny.
Poor product and abysmal financial management.
It's funny reading all this talk about communism.
Fact is that the capitalist system has, for better or more probably worse, brought the US to the situation it is now in.
#Let's see what's left . . oh yeah the energy sector - The obama admin will not allow this nations' oil corps. to drill any additional resources ; there's plenty of oil to be acquired in our own American territory, but under some bogus b.s. environmental laws as well as obama's unwillingness to press the issue, we will spend a non cost effective amount of additional future tax payer obligations to chase after unfounded reliability in alternative energy resources in order to suppliement our nations' energy requirements.
Ain't gonna happen !
Becoming bankrupt, due to intended and atrocious governmental policies, the oil companies will come and beg for the government to bail them out, thus nationalizing the energy sector.
Are we communists yet ?
:sigh:
The untapped US resources would meet US oil requirements for a few months at most (such is the US demand for oil). If the US wants to become self-sufficient in energy, big changes would need to be made in energy demand (still per capita the highest in the world for large economies) and sources (not a short-term thing).
It's interesting how some commentators think that Obama is a socialist/communist. From a European persepctive he's at most centreist, and in some cases quite right wing
Agreed.
US dependancy on oil is certainly an issue - hence invasion of Iraq.
With respect to Obama, I agree by our (European) standards, he is at best centrist.
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