What are your thoughts on labor unions?
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Mr. Daystar
In a bell tower, watching you through cross hairs.
The Teamsters, used to be a great union, but not anymore. The Mid-West union fund is messed up. Probably due to corruption. Currently there are only 2 union companies left in Cleveland, due to deregulation, and corruption, new hires are working 7 years, for 1 year of retirement benefits. The United Auto Works, and the unbelievable power they had, or still have, is part of why cars cost so much. But in some ways you can't blame them. They see a suit in the front office get a $500k bonus for saving the company a couple of million, and the guys in the pits are doing all the work.
As far as American unions go, they started out with good intentions, and to help the working man, but because of abuse and corruption, have become less and less helpful.
As far as American unions go, they started out with good intentions, and to help the working man, but because of abuse and corruption, have become less and less helpful.
Theopolis Q. Hossenffer
Every Nation Needs a God-Emperor!
I was a union member for most of my working life. Also spent time as a union officer. ,I believe in unions but the major issue I have always seen is unions that get so big that they have a paid "Leadership" that becomes drunk with power and the members money. Those folks are what gives unions a really bad name. With the way many companies are today and how they treat their workers I would much rather be in one than not. The idea(except in rare circumstances) that an individual has more power alone dealing with a company than with a group is just a company sponsored fallacy.
Mr. Daystar
In a bell tower, watching you through cross hairs.
Organized crime was into the unions long before Gotti came along.
John_8581
FreeOnes Lifetime Member
Union presidents and vice presidents, and the other higher ups within those organizations get into trouble when they dip their hands into the Health and Welfare and Pension Funds of the members that they are supposed to be fiduciaries for. That Holy Water will always get them in trouble.
Mr. Daystar
In a bell tower, watching you through cross hairs.
Don't forget about the golden parachutes. My wife lost a job because the company was mismanaged. She lost 4 weeks vacation pay, and the assclown that flushed the company down the shitter got to keep his 7 series BMW company car. I think anything over a town car, or sedan de ville, is a bit much myself. The part that pisses me off was, she wouldn't let me know who and where he was. She was afraid I was going to do something stupid. I was just gonna take the rims and tires and sell them, for her lost pay. No violence was intended.
Theopolis Q. Hossenffer
Every Nation Needs a God-Emperor!
It was not the least bit unusual in the days before the Government(Federal) got involved for a company to fire an employee just as they were about to retire. In ancient times it was not unusual to spend 20 to 40+ years at the same company. As an aside anyone who did not do that usually was considered unreliable. A "smart" company would find a reason to fire a person, usually a male, so they did not have to pay his pension. Considered good business by many. And what was the guy gonna do. Get a Lawyer?
Having worked for some shitty employers in the private sector, I can definitely say that unions have their use. In low paying jobs, getting a lawyer after being treated like shit, or unfairly dismissed isn't an option. Or at least, not a viable one, compared to just sucking it up and moving onto the next job.
That said, there are certainly good and bad unions (& their leaders). Showboating by union leaders to "prove their worth" is annoying. Take the Canadian strike - the union "accepted" the deal at 1am on May 1st. That just caused confusion among the strikers who went to bed being told when/where to picket monday morning. You can bet that the reason the union did that was just to be able to say they reached a deal on May day. That was the same offer that was made on Friday, and they could have easily put the members at ease over the weekend by accepting it then, instead of delaying it so they could call it a "May day deal".
That said, there are certainly good and bad unions (& their leaders). Showboating by union leaders to "prove their worth" is annoying. Take the Canadian strike - the union "accepted" the deal at 1am on May 1st. That just caused confusion among the strikers who went to bed being told when/where to picket monday morning. You can bet that the reason the union did that was just to be able to say they reached a deal on May day. That was the same offer that was made on Friday, and they could have easily put the members at ease over the weekend by accepting it then, instead of delaying it so they could call it a "May day deal".
Harpsman
Light one for Me
Holy moly!
The brass neck of these people blinds them from the cringe of this sort of tokenism.
A friend works for local Government. A <1% (£552) annual pay rise offer was refused but the Government forced it through.
He receives just above national minimum wage. He has 33 years service done.
Last month he received an invite to an outstanding contribution recognition ceremony - given his length of service. A 45 minute affair where he would be presented with......drumroll..... yes, you guessed it, a certificate.
Contempt.
The brass neck of these people blinds them from the cringe of this sort of tokenism.
A friend works for local Government. A <1% (£552) annual pay rise offer was refused but the Government forced it through.
He receives just above national minimum wage. He has 33 years service done.
Last month he received an invite to an outstanding contribution recognition ceremony - given his length of service. A 45 minute affair where he would be presented with......drumroll..... yes, you guessed it, a certificate.
Contempt.
@Mr. Daystar & others:
Thoughts on the current auto strike?
Thoughts on the current auto strike?
Mr. Daystar
In a bell tower, watching you through cross hairs.
I think expecting 40 hours of pay, for 32 hours of work, and a raise that brings them to around $47 per hour is pretty fucked up, considering the quality cars they build. But I don't really think CEO's and other similar executives should be making $29 mil a year either. Ultimately the consumer eats the cost, and all they're doing is driving those consumers to other brands. I've delivered to Ford and GM facilities, and I can assure you there's a tremendous amount of time being stolen as it is, and I can't really remembering anyone working really hard, so I think they're out of line to ask for what they are asking.
100%
The union saying "Give us a 40% raise because that's what the CEO got" isn't a rational ask.
Are worker's wages not keeping up with inflation? Have there been no wage increases in years? These are more persuasive arguments
And the Exec shouldn't be circle jerking themselves, especially if their performance doesn't warrant it. Plus they should know the optics look horrible to the workers/unions when they do that.
Come to think of it, when you think of "Auto workers strike", am I the only one who pictures the "Big 3" US makers? I don't recall German/Italian/Japanese auto workers going on strike.
My opinion on labor unions is like any organization made of people throughout history they can possibly succumb to graft or incompetence, but on the whole it is much MUCH superior to have them than to not have them. Almost every job that exist around me that is unionized has far superior pay, benefits, and protections for the workers than the comparable jobs that don't. It's not a coincidence that's the case.
Considering the massive profit and the massive wealth inequality of this country I don't care if the rich end up getting less because of them, and I sure as hell also don't care about the stockholders or there lessened profits.
Considering the massive profit and the massive wealth inequality of this country I don't care if the rich end up getting less because of them, and I sure as hell also don't care about the stockholders or there lessened profits.
If men were angels, their would be no need for unions.
maildude99
Closed Account
Say what you want about unions, but if you can think of a better way of holding big business leaders and the management teams that answer to them in check, I'm all eyes. It's a balance in the free market...like Congress or The Supreme Court are supposed to be. But, like them, there is political hegemony and underhandedness. You can stare from the Right and blindly trust the actions of industry and white collars if you want. You can Left-ly defend and bolster the creation of unions indiscriminantly, despite the effect on small business, if you want. But the fact is that we do not have a viable alternative. And it's gonna be the working classes that suffer in the likely event of a shoving match. Don't forget: this country was set up...albeit ideologically...to be a defender of the common man, not a shill for big money. Sure...that's not the way it's turned out. So much for all this talk of freedom. But, like freedom, unions come with a price. And that price is maybe small businesses suffer most, or maybe unsavory elements infiltrate the union heads. In any event, this democracy is a wound, a scab, and a tear. It will always be so if we continue as we have. And as long as a cheap car is more than 20 grand, and a Big Mac meal is 18 dollars, I'll take the pains of unionization over the hunger and squallor of minimum wage.
