To put it another way...

[bobjustbob]

Big Pharma - they are behind the illegalization of marijuana because they know it will hurt profits. Depression/anxiety disorders are an epidemic these days, as well as a host of other conditions that pot would treat better. they force the government to spend billions on pot eradication when it should go to stopping coke, meth, opiates, etc. They also overcharge the meds they do produce. And I'm still waiting for the President/Senator/whatever who will get drug commercials off the TV. These things I mention affect all of us.

Big oil - c'mon, do I really need to spend the next 2 1/2 weeks listing the ways they fuck us all over

Bank industry - see big oil. SnL Crisis, LIBOR, the current economic fiasco. It's all the banks...the same ones who kick people out of their homes because...of the banks.

Pause: How are you asking how this affects us?

Coal - it's killing the planet, it's making our food unsafe to eat and the next mine disaster has just come a day closer.

CEO salaries - a bunch of Neros, fiddling while Rome burns. The same CEOs that are responsible for everything listed above.

Overfishing and the fake farm crisis - despite our best efforts, do you see any less people living on our planet? Every square foot of arable soil needs something growing out of it, the seriously depleted fish stocks need to be protected and managed properly. No excuses. But all we get is excuses.

All of this affects all of us, every single day.

Fine. Let's have it your way. Eliminate the coal, oil, banking, pharmaceutical, and fishing industries. Will that make our lives any better?

 

[Mayhem]

Fine. Let's have it your way. Eliminate the coal, oil, banking, pharmaceutical, and fishing industries. Will that make our lives any better?

Where did I say eliminate the industries?

You're starting to sound like a Republican.

 

[vodkazvictim]

Where did I say eliminate the industries?

You're starting to sound like a Republican.

So what woul dyou do with them, mon Cher, nationalise?

 

[Mayhem]

So what woul dyou do with them, mon cher, nationalise?

No, regulate. Every time the banking industry deregulates, we run into our next financial crisis. In terms of Big Pharma, someone has to step up and take them on. We need someone who is the equivalent of Elizabeth Warren. We need to eliminate oil subsidies, get the US Navy and Coast Guard into the illegal fishing business, perfect desalinisation technology and make sure our farms are growing food.

 

[abrogate]

I think constant correction is probably the best course of action. The pendulum needs to keep swinging and shouldn't be stuck in any one spot. As focus to regulate business becomes too strict, it should loosen. Then when it becomes too free, it needs more regulation. I don't think there is a way to get it "right". However, compared to 100 years ago, the increased regulation has improved life. Current times Supreme Court ruling that "corporations are people" is a step in the wrong direction.
Someone said it on one of the boards here, that labor laws should be looked at. I'm all for right to work. The other side of the coin is "at will" employment gives quite a bit of power to the corporation over the non-union workers. I own a small business and I see how employment law is restrictive, but employment means people, not the purchase and sale or things like desks and computer hardware. I think it should be more restrictive. I don't hire unless I'm comfortable that it will be a long term commitment. If I'm hiring with a larger risk or short term gain in mind, I'm very clear on that.

 

[Mr. Daystar]

Big Pharma - they are behind the illegalization of marijuana because they know it will hurt profits. Depression/anxiety disorders are an epidemic these days, as well as a host of other conditions that pot would treat better. they force the government to spend billions on pot eradication when it should go to stopping coke, meth, opiates, etc. They also overcharge the meds they do produce. And I'm still waiting for the President/Senator/whatever who will get drug commercials off the TV. These things I mention affect all of us.

Big oil - c'mon, do I really need to spend the next 2 1/2 weeks listing the ways they fuck us all over

Bank industry - see big oil. SnL Crisis, LIBOR, the current economic fiasco. It's all the banks...the same ones who kick people out of their homes because...of the banks.

Pause: How are you asking how this affects us?

Coal - it's killing the planet, it's making our food unsafe to eat and the next mine disaster has just come a day closer.

CEO salaries - a bunch of Neros, fiddling while Rome burns. The same CEOs that are responsible for everything listed above.

Overfishing and the fake farm crisis - despite our best efforts, do you see any less people living on our planet? Every square foot of arable soil needs something growing out of it, the seriously depleted fish stocks need to be protected and managed properly. No excuses. But all we get is excuses.

All of this affects all of us, every single day.

I can't disagree with any of this, but the fishing part. I agree that over fishing is a problem, but fish tend to swim out of American waters, and how do we stop other countries? If I'm not mistaken, Japan is still plundering the whale population, and we can't stop them. Russian waters are very close to ours, in the Bearing Sea...non of these countries care. The other stuff is within our grasp, or would be, if big oil didn't get to these politicians while they were still at a local level.

 

[Mayhem]

I can't disagree with any of this, but the fishing part. I agree that over fishing is a problem, but fish tend to swim out of American waters, and how do we stop other countries? If I'm not mistaken, Japan is still plundering the whale population, and we can't stop them. Russian waters are very close to ours, in the Bearing Sea...non of these countries care. The other stuff is within our grasp, or would be, if big oil didn't get to these politicians while they were still at a local level.

In regards to fishing, there is illegal fisheries happening in international waters all the time. Drift netting and long lining. There are laws concerning these practices. I believe that the problem has gotten bad enough for the US Navy (and other cooperating Navies) to step in and for the Coast Guard to ramp up their efforts. These fisheries have to have a radar return, so the nearest vessel (not on some priority mission) buzzes on over and either sinks it or collects it. In the case of drift nets, some of these nets cost millions. Sink enough of them, the illegal fisheries go broke and go home. And yes, there are special anchors that will put a drift net on the bottom in such a way that it will not cause further problems.

 

[Mr. Daystar]

In regards to fishing, there is illegal fisheries happening in international waters all the time. Drift netting and long lining. There are laws concerning these practices. I believe that the problem has gotten bad enough for the US Navy (and other cooperating Navies) to step in and for the Coast Guard to ramp up their efforts. These fisheries have to have a radar return, so the nearest vessel (not on some priority mission) buzzes on over and either sinks it or collects it. In the case of drift nets, some of these nets cost millions. Sink enough of them, the illegal fisheries go broke and go home. And yes, there are special anchors that will put a drift net on the bottom in such a way that it will not cause further problems.

Okay. I didn't know that. I guess I can't argue it won't work...I don't really know anything about it. Has our country even tried to get other nations on board? Or are we all alone in this one too?

 

[bobjustbob]

As long as we're not talking about the corporate institution being evil then I can get on board with this. Bad people do greedy things on all levels. It is not the institution's fault but the people that make the decisions. There are crimes committed by corporates and special interests being catered to no doubt. These people belong in jail but that's not the question from the OP. Corporations make things and employ people. The more money they make the more things they can make and employ.

 

[xfire]

As long as we're not talking about the corporate institution being evil then I can get on board with this. Bad people do greedy things on all levels. It is not the institution's fault but the people that make the decisions. There are crimes committed by corporates and special interests being catered to no doubt. These people belong in jail but that's not the question from the OP. Corporations make things and employ people. The more money they make the more things they can make and employ.

That's a fucking fair assessment. I can get on board with this, stop demonizing corporations and start holding motherfuckers accountable. Alas, corporations are designed to limit liability, so, how do you eliminate some of the corporate safety net without destroying the integrity of the structure?

 

[Mr. Daystar]

That's a fucking fair assessment. I can get on board with this, stop demonizing corporations and start holding motherfuckers accountable. Alas, corporations are designed to limit liability, so, how do you eliminate some of the corporate safety net without destroying the integrity of the structure?

Stun guns, and shock collars?

 

[Mayhem]

Okay. I didn't know that. I guess I can't argue it won't work...I don't really know anything about it. Has our country even tried to get other nations on board? Or are we all alone in this one too?

The thing is, when a fish sits on ice at the market (great or small) no one gives a damn about where it came from or how it was caught. I could single out Japan, and they are a major perpetrator, but all of Asia is guilty of fishing with no regard for the future. Shark fins and tuna are major, major items over there and where there's money, there's crime. Underdeveloped countries then participate with Japan/Asia in return for kickbacks that, in all honesty, they need. If you haven't seen it, watch The Cove, and there is a part in the middle that explains this and gives examples.

I specifically mentioned tuna and shark fins but don't be fooled. Japan/Asia will vacuum anything out of the oceans that they can sell at the market and they'll use massively, ridiculously huge driftnets to do it. The bycatch is horrendous and a lot of our problems (but not all) with worldwide fish stocks and endangered marine species is a direct result of this.

I'm not sure what you're asking when you said, "are we alone in this". We are not even in it. Except for talking and attending meaningless conferences, we have no leadership in this. If I were President, I would do what I outlined above. I would order the Navy to be on the lookout for illegal fishing operations anywhere in international waters, and where they are found, shut them down. Every ship would have the anchors and equipment to carry this out, boat crews would be trained. Hell, they'd probably enjoy the hell out of it and get even more job-satisfaction out of having joined the Navy.

 

[Mr. Daystar]

I'm not sure what you're asking when you said, "are we alone in this". We are not even in it. Except for talking and attending meaningless conferences, we have no leadership in this. If I were President, I would do what I outlined above. I would order the Navy to be on the lookout for illegal fishing operations anywhere in international waters, and where they are found, shut them down. Every ship would have the anchors and equipment to carry this out, boat crews would be trained. Hell, they'd probably enjoy the hell out of it and get even more job-satisfaction out of having joined the Navy.

I meant, are any other countries on board, and helping to get these things done? But I'm guessing from this, we voice concern, and everyone else disregards it like a joke.

 

[Mayhem]

Again, we're not even on board. Just us crazee, hippy-dippy treehuggers.

 

[vodkazvictim]

As long as we're not talking about the corporate institution being evil then I can get on board with this. Bad people do greedy things on all levels. It is not the institution's fault but the people that make the decisions. There are crimes committed by corporates and special interests being catered to no doubt. These people belong in jail but that's not the question from the OP. Corporations make things and employ people. The more money they make the more things they can make and employ.

So why do these people do bad things? To make money; capitalism manufactures bad behaviour.
And no, I'm not just trying to annoy you.

 

[bobjustbob]

So why do these people do bad things? To make money; capitalism manufactures bad behavior.
And no, I'm not just trying to annoy you.

Capitalism is to make money. Everyone can agree that there is nothing inherently wrong with that. Greed is the problem and it's not limited to those on the upper tier. Any trusted mechanic is ready to sell a 4 wheel break job to anyone that may not keep their car for another 40,000 miles. Granted, this is much different from the fucking crooks like (fill in the name) who have things set up for them that they will never go to jail. Businesses trend up and down and there are risks involved on every level. You can hate me for believing in the golden parachute but I will not deny that some of these mother fuckers turn a blind eye on questionable and or illegal activities. Let me back it down a level. A restaurant has Kobe beef and locally grown organic produce on it's menu and it just isn't the case. Same greed.


And you know I love you as much as a socialist as you are. We want our kids to go to good schools and our women treat us like shit. We pay too much for gas and shit breaks down in our house. We ain't that much different.

 

[vodkazvictim]

Capitalism is to make money. Everyone can agree that there is nothing inherently wrong with that. Greed is the problem and it's not limited to those on the upper tier. Any trusted mechanic is ready to sell a 4 wheel break job to anyone that may not keep their car for another 40,000 miles. Granted, this is much different from the fucking crooks like (fill in the name) who have things set up for them that they will never go to jail. Businesses trend up and down and there are risks involved on every level. You can hate me for believing in the golden parachute but I will not deny that some of these mother fuckers turn a blind eye on questionable and or illegal activities. Let me back it down a level. A restaurant has Kobe beef and locally grown organic produce on it's menu and it just isn't the case. Same greed.


And you know I love you as much as a socialist as you are. We want our kids to go to good schools and our women treat us like shit. We pay too much for gas and shit breaks down in our house. We ain't that much different.

You know I love you too.

You may also know that I believe that capitalism encourages immoral behaviour.