“The Unspoken Alliance:” What Did Israel Learn From Apartheid South Africa?

[Ulysses31]

Those millions voted a terror group (Hamas) into power that now not only makes the lives of the Palestinians more miserable on a daily basis but those of millions of Israelis as well.

When people get desperate and angry they vote for the extremist groups who promise to fight the oppressors, especially as Fatah had failed (not really their fault as despite vowing to do so Bush never sought to resolve this middle east conflict but proceeded to make more of his own in his 2 terms in charge), even if that group is no more than a right wing organisation. The exact same thing happened in Germany when people voted for Hitler as he promised to avenge the shame brought upon Germany by the treaty of Versailles, and look what he ended up doing to Germany.

 

[sualcalay]

People choose what they think is best for them...which may not always be the best for them. It's a risk we all take everyday, this time it was just done in a large scale.

 

[emceeemcee]

Those millions voted a terror group (Hamas) into power that now not only makes the lives of the Palestinians more miserable on a daily basis but those of millions of Israelis as well.

It's the Israelis holding up the building materials, food and medicine at entry crossings, not Hamas.


Forcibly depriving a population of food,shelter and medicine is a major breach of the geneva convention, you'll find. It's certainly not the behaviour of a civilized country.

 

[celebrian]

I find these kippas they wear so cute !!!

 

[GregCentauro]

Forcibly depriving a population of food,shelter and medicine is a major breach of the geneva convention, you'll find. It's certainly not the behaviour of a civilized country.

I'm tired of this dreary to and fro.

Israel abides to any solid agreement based on mutual respect. There are steady peace-deals with Egypt and Jordan who accept Israel's non-negotiable rights. Why can't there be just such an agreement with the Palestinians?

Barak offered anything the Palestinians could have asked for (and maybe even more) at Camp David in 2000. Yet Arafat refused the outstretched hand and squandered a historic chance.

As long as Hamas, Hezbollah and its backers along with the profoundly antisemitic UN don't guarantee Israel peaceful coexistence, there is no reason for Israel to play by its enemies' rules.

 

[JayJohn85]

Ahh well once they have wiped out the palestinians, At which stage Uncle Sam probably be completely appalled, miffed and horrified. This will result in them being unable to hide behind uncle sam which considering Saudi Arabia(who could actually fight them as they too are armed to the teeth) and other muslim nations would likely be an all round bad thing for the jews.

 

[GregCentauro]

All right, I give up. Let Iran and its cronies finish the Nazis' job. You carry on without me.

:wave2:

 

[JayJohn85]

lol naw Israel is right it is surrounded on all sides by enemies and its understandable somewhat....They are just wrong in their approach, Getting your back against a wall and having big ass guns isnt going to solve it. They should now try a friendlier approach like maybe engage and get on with their neighbours, If they actually improved the palestinians lot in life they may even become productive israeli citizens instead of suicide bombers....Peace would have a chance and regional attitudes may even change given time through diplomatic dialogue with its closer neighbours and trade. Dont get me wrong there will be malcontents for years but eventually people would realise its a bad position both parties are in, They are in it now and they must face reality. Mutual annihilation or peace and prosperity.(yea sure they could wipe out the palestinians but they would get served eventually uncle sam isnt quite so well soon the other two will be flexing, Russia and China....With that comes spheres of influence shit again, And Iran has been ever a old ally)

Change is a powerful force but so is resentment.

 

[emceeemcee]

I.
Why can't there be just such an agreement with the Palestinians?

1.The PLO adopted the two solution back in the 80s, with resolution 242 as the basis link

2.Hamas have stated publicy they are willing to settle the dispute at the 67 lines (these are the lines Israel is required to by international law to withdraw to) link

3.The Arab peace initiative which calls for a two state solution based on 242 has been on the table for nearly 10 years link

4.Every year the UNGA votes on a solution to the problem, offering up a two state solution as an end to the conflict, again based on 242. Every year the vote is the same- every country in the world votes in favor of the proposal except Australia, Israel, Marshall Islands, Micronesia, Nauru, Palau, United States. link

5.Consistant polling shows the Palestinians want a two state solution link


With alll that in mind, how can anyone seriously suggest for a moment that it's the Palestinians who don't want to make peace?


The Israelis could have facilitated the two state solution at ANY time by a) agreeing to it and then b) removing their military from the west bank which they are required to by law. Instead they have chosen to keep their military there and build houses, illegally, on land that does not belong to them.


So why haven't the Israeli's done it? There is only one reason- they want more land.

Barak offered anything the Palestinians could have asked for (and maybe even more) at Camp David in 2000. Yet Arafat refused the outstretched hand and squandered a historic chance.

This is another common claim that doesn't stand up to any scrutiny.

What was offered to the Palestinians was just some islands of territory in the west bank. They were cut off from East Jerulesum (which would have been the important financial hub) and most of the roadblocks, checkpoints and Israeli settlements would have stayed. The islands were cut off from each other and surrounded by Israeli roads settlements. Israel would have continued to control the border between Jordan and all the airspace. It was not a serious offer. Map of what Israel proposed-

 

[Ulysses31]

All right, I give up. Let Iran and its cronies finish the Nazis' job. You carry on without me.

:wave2:

That's not entirely accurate. The problem most Arab states have with Israel is mostly to do with how it was created and acts and admittedly in extreme cases (Ahmadinejad) its very existence. This is more to do with the state of Israel (not people) rather than the genocide of all the Jews (Nazis). Most Jews and Arabs have lived side by side in relative peace in the middle east for many centuries when only few Jews remained and the majority had spread out across Europe. The problem began as with any country from the mass emigration of jews to israel from Europe (European guilt over inactivity during the holocaust led to high numbers of visas being issued which shot up the jewish numbers in palestine rapidly) following the second world war that created a lot of tension and hostility in the British mandate of Palestine. It's the equivalent of 100,000s of mexicans showing up in the southern states of america in a short period of time, these rapidly increasingly numbers will no doubt cause tension amonst the people already living there. I won't bother going into what happened from then on as you can blame either side (depending on how far back in history you want to go) but be clear that no one has persecuted the Jews historically more than Christians with modern day white supremacist groups still vying to wipe the jewish people out as opposed to targetting the state of israel, which is the chip on the arabs shoulder. Once again I'm trying not to take sides but am just offering a deeper insight into these complicated troubles from all perspectives.

 

[Trident1]

You don't think Israel actually cares about America, do you?


They're just there to get what they can out of you....money, weapons, UNSC vetoes, people to fight their wars for them.....

They need us, we need them. We've had a relationship with Israel for a long time and will for the foreseeable future. We will never allow Israel to be defeated by the barbarians that surround it.

If the uber liberals don't like it well......................here's a tip.......:thefinger

 

[emceeemcee]

They need us, we need them.

They definetley need you no doubt about it.


But why does America need Israel?

We will never allow Israel to be defeated by the barbarians that surround it.

Seizing land through military invasion and depriving a population of food, medicine and shelter was considered barbarism . Wars were fought against Hitler and Saddam for those very reasons.


So why can Israel do it and not be considered barbarians?

 

[georges]

I'm tired of this dreary to and fro.

Israel abides to any solid agreement based on mutual respect. There are steady peace-deals with Egypt and Jordan who accept Israel's non-negotiable rights. Why can't there be just such an agreement with the Palestinians?

Barak offered anything the Palestinians could have asked for (and maybe even more) at Camp David in 2000. Yet Arafat refused the outstretched hand and squandered a historic chance.

As long as Hamas, Hezbollah and its backers along with the profoundly antisemitic UN don't guarantee Israel peaceful coexistence, there is no reason for Israel to play by its enemies' rules.

absolutely:thumbsup:
UN is filled with antisemitic sobs and unfortunately all what the plaestinian government is good for, it is for nothing because it can't make disappear the radical islamist groups like hamas, fatah, alaksah martyr brigadesor the hezbollah. The problem also in the middle East is Syria who has been financing terrorist organizations since a long time and Bachar El Assad is more or less the same piece of shit than his father Bachar El Asad.

 

[georges]

They definetley need you no doubt about it.


But why does America need Israel?



Seizing land through military invasion and depriving a population of food, medicine and shelter was considered barbarism . Wars were fought against Hitler and Saddam for those very reasons.


So why can Israel do it and not be considered barbarians?

Israel has some key industries like IT, military industries and medical industries which are in strong relationships with their American counterparts. Israel brings a lot to America in terms of technology and savoir faire.

Backing up the hamas and any other terrorist organization and encouraging the citizens of your own country to go suicide bombing is worse than everything.It is being deprived of the sense of education and reasoning by your own.

Israel is one of the few democracies in the middle east, it is not comparable to Syria, Iran, Iraq, Yemen, Saudi Arabia and Emirates.

 

[mickeit]

Zionism was the biggest mistake in human history, madness is such that they want to make Jerusalem (Holy City of three religions) the capital of the "Jewish empire".

Absurd as this are the Jews of the USA, allying himself with racists and white supremacists, why?

The truth all that hath understanding know very well: OIL! OIL! MONEY! POWER! OIL!

 

[LaLiLuLeLohan]

Ahh well once they have wiped out the palestinians, At which stage Uncle Sam probably be completely appalled, miffed and horrified. This will result in them being unable to hide behind uncle sam which considering Saudi Arabia(who could actually fight them as they too are armed to the teeth) and other muslim nations would likely be an all round bad thing for the jews.

Is your avatar meant to be ironic?

 

[LaLiLuLeLohan]

Zionism was the biggest mistake in human history, madness is such that they want to make Jerusalem (Holy City of three religions) the capital of the "Jewish empire".

Absurd as this are the Jews of the USA, allying himself with racists and white supremacists, why?

The truth all that hath understanding know very well: OIL! OIL! MONEY! POWER! OIL!

I'm not going to get roped up in this idiot punch bowl , BUT, if you truly think Zionism is the biggest mistake of humanity, then I'll bet you six dollars that you can hold your breath for four minutes and fifty-nine seconds.

1...2...GO!

 

[mickeit]

They need us, we need them. We've had a relationship with Israel for a long time and will for the foreseeable future. We will never allow Israel to be defeated by the barbarians that surround it.

If the uber liberals don't like it well......................here's a tip.......:thefinger

Jews billionaires who run the U.S. economic sistem and as everyone knows the U.S. itself, did this "miracle":

"Racists, Republicans (mainly TEXA-S, OR -CO), American white supremacist idiots believe this crap."

It is hardly a "miracle" when we recall the level of intelligence of these idiots.
If the Americans were really critical thanked the "barbarians" by delaying the triumph of "Jewish empire" for the day when Israel triumphs completely (think hard) in the Middle East, will happen to the U.S., and his "American Empire" the same happened to the "British Empire".

Replace them!:thefinger

 

[mickeit]

I'm not going to get roped up in this idiot punch bowl , BUT, if you truly think Zionism is the biggest mistake of humanity, then I'll bet you six dollars that you can hold your breath for four minutes and fifty-nine seconds.

1...2...GO!

So I'll bet you sixty dollars that you can suck your own balls for four hours and fifty-nine minutes.:rofl:

ONE...TWO...GO! AGAIN!

 

[Trident1]

So I'll bet you sixty dollars that you can suck your own balls for four hours and fifty-nine minutes.:rofl:

ONE...TWO...GO! AGAIN!

WTF are you huffing?