>>>The Republican Party Is The Problem

[gmase]

Coming back to this...

I'm from LA and grew up going to Catholic School ... You should have seen his face the time I told him I wasn't Baptized.

I'm surprised the nuns let you get away without the baptism. From what I've heard of the schools from my wife, they were fairly strict about the sacraments.

If we had a secure border we wouldn't be dealing with this. But since there is no interest in securing the border and illegals flood in ship those illegals off to the bleeding heart Governors so they can feed off the plasma of their constituency. Any Governor stupid enough to offer sanctuary to illegal aliens should have their desire put to the test. Our elected Game Show Host as well.

Fleeing Venezuela (a socialist country) should be welcomed.

 

[Little Red Wagon Repairman]

Fleeing Venezuela (a socialist country) should be welcomed.

And people from every country with worse humanitarian conditions than Venezuela too? Might as well tow much of the African continent over here. How many Ukranians, Syrians, Saudis, Afghans, North Koreans, Chinese, Somalis, Palestinians, etc & etc... will you let in too? If these people have no means of support then who is to support them and for how long?

 

[tvstrip]

What gets me is when refugees travel through multiple countries and don't claim asylum until they get to the US. If your situation is truly life or death and you are a true refugee, you shouldn't be picking and choosing what country you want to seek protection in.

There are Eritreans who flee to Ethiopia as refugees. Freaking Ethiopia is their safe haven. Those are true refugees and in my eyes have to most legit claim to refugee protection. Compare that to those who camp out by the US/Mex border, even though Mexico offers them asylum. It's hard to feel sorry when they get deported back to their home country when they were given the chance to start a new life and threw it away.

 

[gmase]

I am fine deporting them back to their home countries.

This conversation started with DeSantis’s stunt to fly Venezuelan migrants to Martha’s Vineyard before they got shuffled off to Cape Cod. To me that does not seem practical. Humans should not be pawns. Others disagree.

 

[gmase]

How about flying the migrants to International Falls, MN or Fargo, ND and then giving them a bus ride to the border?

🇨🇦

 

[Supafly]

The path to applying for Imigration is an Internationa Human Right.
That is the first part.
Then, let us talk about the smart part.
Here is a paper on the financial impact of immigration on the US economy. In short:
Without them, you would have to raise taxes to stay in the good lane:

https://www.nber.org/system/files/working_papers/w25836/w25836.pdf

 

[Little Red Wagon Repairman]

This conversation started with DeSantis’s stunt to fly Venezuelan migrants to Martha’s Vineyard before they got shuffled off to Cape Cod. To me that does not seem practical. Humans should not be pawns. Others disagree.

But allowing a bunch of migrants in in hopes for gain at the ballot box as a plan for future concentration of political power is not using people as pawns? Make sure to keep to them poor and illiterate always depending on gov't goodies or else the livestock may escape the corral and start thinking for themselves.

We need to strengthen the border so innocent migrants are not volleyed around by any politicians regardless of party. Turn them away unless our country has the need for them. I don't mind hosting people I invite to my house but I do resent my government turning me into a host so people can feed off of me for political gain.

 

[Little Red Wagon Repairman]

The path to applying for Imigration is an Internationa Human Right.
That is the first part.
Then, let us talk about the smart part.
Here is a paper on the financial impact of immigration on the US economy. In short:
Without them, you would have to raise taxes to stay in the good lane:

https://www.nber.org/system/files/working_papers/w25836/w25836.pdf

How many immigrants should we be letting in per month? At what point will it be too many? With the new migrants inside the United States how many more schools and hospitals should we build? What is your plan to deal with the housing shortage that we have already had in Southern California for a number of years? What is your plan to integrate the new migrants and how and where would you find housing for them? Do you have any plan or desire for them to learn English so they can prosper and get a better job so they can slowly work out of poverty and reach a higher economic class becoming less dependent on the government and taxpayers?

 

[gmase]

But allowing a bunch of migrants in in hopes for gain at the ballot box as a plan for future concentration of political power is not using people as pawns? Make sure to keep to them poor and illiterate always depending on gov't goodies or else the livestock may escape the corral and start thinking for themselves.

We need to strengthen the border so innocent migrants are not volleyed around by any politicians regardless of party. Turn them away unless our country has the need for them. I don't mind hosting people I invite to my house but I do resent my government turning me into a host so people can feed off of me for political gain.

I disagree with your premises. No one is allowing migrants into the country for ballot box gains. As noted earlier, there is a risk in assuming a voting bloc is monolithic and only votes in one direction.

Government goodies like social security? I'd like to see how much of it is spent in Florida. As for government handouts, here are the worst states (you see lots of red ones there):

 

[Little Red Wagon Repairman]

Government goodies like social security?

So paying into Social Security during your lifetime is the same thing as being handed benefits just because you have the ability to breathe while contributing nothing also in the act of breaking the law while bringing other dependent mouths to feed, educate, and care for?

 

[gmase]

So paying into Social Security during your lifetime is the same thing as being handed benefits just because you have the ability to breathe while contributing nothing also in the act of breaking the law while bringing other dependent mouths to feed, educate, and care for?

I don't think SS contributes to the deficiencies noted in the table I presented, do you? There has to be something else involved (another source if you need one: https://smartasset.com/data-studies/states-most-dependent-on-the-federal-government-2022). SS is a government benefit which is 'guaranteed' regardless of contributions which we both know dwarf payouts - especially as people live longer. The end result will be like the pension schemes which sent airlines and steel companies into bankruptcy. The PBGC is around for a reason. Furthermore, illegal immigrants don't vote, don't contribute to SS, and don't collect SS.

Migrants have been the enemy of the state for well over a couple centuries. You mentioned earlier about allowing immigration for votes. The opposite is also true - the other side uses the matter for their own voting (and fundraising) purposes. DeSantis did not do this for any other reason than with electoral motives in mind. It was a stunt - pure and simple - that worked. The electoral issue now is the same as the issue in 2018, 1918, or 1868 - only the head of government has changed. Biden is not much different than Trump in actions, but they obviously differ in rhetoric.

 

[gmase]

How many immigrants should we be letting in per month? At what point will it be too many? With the new migrants inside the United States how many more schools and hospitals should we build? What is your plan to deal with the housing shortage that we have already had in Southern California for a number of years? What is your plan to integrate the new migrants and how and where would you find housing for them? Do you have any plan or desire for them to learn English so they can prosper and get a better job so they can slowly work out of poverty and reach a higher economic class becoming less dependent on the government and taxpayers?

Age-old questions really: https://www.theguardian.com/artandd...-migrants-built-the-transcontinental-railroad

The early workers in mines and steel mills came from eastern Europe. The Irish - especially the Catholics - were certainly frowned upon in earlier eras. Each group seems to have assimilated over time - learned the language so-to-speak.

 

[Little Red Wagon Repairman]

I don't think SS contributes to the deficiencies noted in the table I presented, do you? There has to be something else involved (another source if you need one: https://smartasset.com/data-studies/states-most-dependent-on-the-federal-government-2022). SS is a government benefit which is 'guaranteed' regardless of contributions which we both know dwarf payouts - especially as people live longer. The end result will be like the pension schemes which sent airlines and steel companies into bankruptcy. The PBGC is around for a reason. Furthermore, illegal immigrants don't vote, don't contribute to SS, and don't collect SS.

Migrants have been the enemy of the state for well over a couple centuries. You mentioned earlier about allowing immigration for votes. The opposite is also true - the other side uses the matter for their own voting (and fundraising) purposes. DeSantis did not do this for any other reason than with electoral motives in mind. It was a stunt - pure and simple - that worked. The electoral issue now is the same as the issue in 2018, 1918, or 1868 - only the head of government has changed. Biden is not much different than Trump in actions, but they obviously differ in rhetoric.

I replied about Social Security after you mentioned Social Security.

Illegal aliens don't vote but any life they produce inside the US is a citizen and can vote at 18. I think these people were allowed in the country for political benefit to change the voting demographics but you feel the motivation is different. I don't think either one of us will budge on that. Politicians are not driven by morality. We both know that.

 

[gmase]

Politicians are not driven by morality. We both know that.

You are correct there.

Movements have been, and are, driven by morality: civil rights, voting rights, abolition, et al. Morality does have a place.

 

[Little Red Wagon Repairman]

You are correct there.

Movements have been, and are, driven by morality: civil rights, voting rights, abolition, et al. Morality does have a place.

But as soon as politicians get involved in and commandeer those movements it ends up being for their own personal gain. The guy you voted for laughs behind your back the same as the guy I chose. We are all pawns to them.

Many of these modern "civil rights" characters make their money through dividing people and causing friction. If we all got along how would they make money?

Can you give me 5 current politicians that you feel are driven by morality over personal career goals?

 

[gmase]

But as soon as politicians get involved in and commandeer those movements it ends up being for their own personal gain. The guy you voted for laughs behind your back the same as the guy I chose. We are all pawns to them.

Many of these modern "civil rights" characters make their money through dividing people and causing friction. If we all got along how would they make money?

Fundraising on fear is as good as gold. Zealots of all stripes have done it for millennia. Why stop now when it is so easy to stoke fear?

Being cynical is not helpful though. For example, Trump was worse than I expected and he only got worse with time. His movement - which I originally discounted - is rightly feared. The post-election shenanigans changed my overall opinion of him - which was low to begin with.

Can you give me 5 current politicians that you feel are driven by morality over personal career goals?

I won’t even try. At one point in my life I thought Joe Paterno was upstanding. He was generally, but not in all matters.

The word ‘movements’ was used intentionally as they should rise about personalities. Abolition was a moral cause. John Brown was not. Desegregation and voting rights are moral causes, but the leaders may have flaws. Flawed people can still do the right thing.

 

[Little Red Wagon Repairman]

Being cynical about politicians is better than being a true believer. People with too much faith are the ones who get taken for a ride. Giving politicians the stink eye is good as those who are known to lie the most must provide enough evidence so they are seen as truthful. No matter how immoral you and I are we still have better morals than they do.

 

[tvstrip]

I am fine deporting them back to their home countries.

This conversation started with DeSantis’s stunt to fly Venezuelan migrants to Martha’s Vineyard before they got shuffled off to Cape Cod. To me that does not seem practical. Humans should not be pawns. Others disagree.

I'm not too familiar with the whole Desantis/Vineyard situation. Doing a quick read, is he literally just taking illegal migrants and dumping them blue states like flaming bags of shit, and saying "You like them so much, you deal with them"?

 

[D-rock]

Can you give me 5 current politicians that you feel are driven by morality over personal career goals?

I'll admit it's pretty challenging, but it's also very telling that out of all federal level politicians the ones by far the most likely to not only be driven by morality, but also do it in a way where they actually give a damn about people and want to make the majority of people's lives materially better, are all progressives. It sort of says something doesn't it? I'm talking about morality about doing good unto the vast majority of others, and not the faux morality of the politicians that want to dominate most others for their own benefit using the excuse that their sky daddy told them to while also not even following their own God's rules when it doesn't suit them.

If most progressives have any fault it's that they are cowed too easily by others in their party and don't speak out against them enough, and not because their morality or their policy positions are bad.

 

[D-rock]

I'm not too familiar with the whole Desantis/Vineyard situation. Doing a quick read, is he literally just taking illegal migrants and dumping them blue states like flaming bags of shit, and saying "You like them so much, you deal with them"?

Well, there's also the whole blatantly lying to them to do it, virtually kidnapping them under false pretenses, and trafficking them across the country when he has no federal authority to do so. Add on he's doing it for some political stunt where cruelty is the point, but as long as all that is somehow ignored, yeah what you say is sort of true.

Also, it's weird he went out of his own state to do it, and doesn't seem inclined to shuttle Cubans in his own state for some weird reason.