The I Told You So Obama Will Fuck Up Thread

Sorry, that's idealism (combined with revisionist history) gone wrong ...

Besides Clinton every president has done nothing but continue the bad rep for America.
I disagree. Just because the world considered W. worse than Clinton did not mean Clinton wasn't disliked during his administration.

The unilateral bombings and cruise missile attacks ("bombs from afar and won't put American soldiers in the same harm"), American special force actions without even notifying allies, Bosnia and putting things in motion before consulting NATO, etc...

Please do not re-write history. Yes, W. is far more hated.

I wish people would stop looking at peaceful answers as weak.
Actually, even Clinton has said some things on North Korea and in a few other areas. Remember, Clinton did take a "hard line" on North Korean before Jimmy Carter started the bilateral talks. Everyone agrees now that those should have never occurred, as the 6-part talks are far more effective in a "common front."

It was also shown that Iran's active work on a nuclear weapon halted in 2003, and they instead focused on enrichment instead. Sometimes "resolve" is a necessary evil, even if I personally do not agree with it, I cannot argue with some of the results at times.

Same goes for the "you're either with us or against us" mandate to states that used to sponsor terrorism. Although Clinton began the dialogue with Libya, it really "picked up quick" after 9/11.

As far war(which is pointless and immature)
So are blackmail and threats in the hope of free subsidy. I live in the real world, do you?

Obama wants to talk things out and there's nothing wrong with that.
Bullshit! Now you're living in the fantasy world. Don't re-write history as you believe.

Obama has repeatedly stated he plans to take a hard line on Afghanistan and the fringe regions of Pakistan. He said that very early in his campaign.

Do not mistake his being against the 2003 invasion of Iraq as someone who will "only talk it out." I have repeatedly stated that I trust Obama's judgement on foreign policy better than W.'s and Clinton's. He does understand things well.

Now a lot of it has been at the benefit of "hindsight." So I hope he can translate that into foresight as well.

Plus you really think a retarted ignorant dumbass Bush supporter like McCain could do any better if not worse than Bush.
Actually, McCain is well respected by several nations. He opened the door to normalizing relations with Vietnam, despite his horrific experiences in the Hanoi Hilton. Give the man some credit.

Even Obama did. McCain also disagreed very much with W. on many aspects back during the original, 2000 primary. Don't call him a "dumb ass W. supporter." Even many Democrats sided with W.'s votes on domestic and other things during 2001-2006 as well.

Obama is a peaceful human being and I rather have that kind of person than a bitch ass idiot that's too pride filled to realize that war/ violence never ends problems it only pisses people off.
You live in a dream world, especially given your lack of remembering the Clinton administration and unilateral actions and related complaints from the world. Although many have "forgotten" them as of late 2002, they still happened.

The United States has many, many responsibilities. This Clinton administration new this. I will, once again, point out both Bosnia and Missile Defense. These were US policies set in-motion during the Clinton administration. You can blame W. for a lot of things (e.g., the decision to invade Iraq), but some things were policies set by the Clinton administration where Clinton would not have done things different.

Obama will inherit the same from the W. administration too. Don't think for a moment that he won't do what is necessary for the strategic interests of the western world, even when most disagree. Clinton did not back down either.
 
An interview with an actual CANADIAN in the past couple of weeks that I heard on the radio. So I don't actually have written proof, in triplicate that I can send to everyone here, sorry.

Im canadian and i can tell you you have heard... (to be polite) unaccurate information or (to be clear) bullshit infos.
 
I personally don't understand the "I told you so" mentality. If you want America to continue to exist as the meritocracy it is today, you have to believe that the appointed leaders are at least competant until you're proven wrong. :2 cents:
 
The biggest problem I see is everybody wants to have ONE person fix everyones problems. The cause of the problems doesn't lay on one man how can the cure. Everyone blames Bush for all the problems in this country short of dying of old age. Yes he made many, many mistakes but alot of what is happening now has grown from seeds sown way before he was even in office. There are many causes for the problems. One pill cannot cure all sickness.


You are exactly right, and the worst thing is, no matter WHAT is wrong this time a year from now, it will be ALL Obama's fault. As much as I don't care for him, that isn't right either.
 
An interview with an actual CANADIAN in the past couple of weeks that I heard on the radio. So I don't actually have written proof, in triplicate that I can send to everyone here, sorry.

Coincidentally, I actually WAS in a Canadian hospital emergency room some time ago at 5 in the morning (local time). And it was definitely open for 'business' (a good thing too).

The interviewed person was wrong.
 
Well, I was actually in a Canadian hospital emergency room some time ago at 5 in the morning. It didn't seem closed to me.

Except for maybe tiny rural hospital's (more like clinics) that might close at midnight, Canadian hospital emergency department's (to my knowledge) do not close at midnight.

The interviewed person was wrong.

Emergency rooms in canadian hospitals are 24/7

You are right regarding rural clinics tho. But for real life-threatening emergencies, we have helicopter-ambulances to reach the closest hospital (quite necessary regarding the huge country we have and the fact that we cannot build hospitals in the woods! :D ).
 
Coincidentally, I actually WAS in a Canadian hospital emergency room some time ago at 5 in the morning (local time). And it was definitely open for 'business' (a good thing too).

The interviewed person was wrong.

I got ya, I've never been to Canada, I'd love to visit though, I hear it is GORGEOUS country.

That is what the guy said, maybe he was referring to one of the rural places though.


:dunno:
 
I got ya, I've never been to Canada, I'd love to visit though, I hear it is GORGEOUS country.

That is what the guy said, maybe he was referring to one of the rural places though.


:dunno:


Canada is indeed nice.

And dont worry about accidents if you ever come to visit us: we have good hospitals open 24/7 :D
 
Besides Clinton every president has done nothing but continue the bad rep for America.
The Clinton administration's foreign policy was far worse then almost any other President's ever because of one country: Rwanda

It has been proven that he and Madeline Albright knew about the incredible carnage that was about to happen in Rwanda and yet not only did nothing to help those that were about to be slaughtered. But supported the UN pulling out and let as many as 800,000 Rwandans be hacked to death (men, women and children).

Bush is useless. But it's hard to call his foreign policies cowardly. Stupid, yes. But not cowardly.

Clinton did what he always does, play it safe. I think he's a coward.

A smart, well educated and personable man. But a coward.
 
Echos of Rowanda ... but what's really at work here?

The Clinton administration's foreign policy was far worse then almost any other President's ever because of one country: Rwanda
It has been proven that he and Madeline Albright knew about the incredible carnage that was about to happen in Rwanda and yet not only did nothing to help those that were about to be slaughtered. But supported the UN pulling out and let as many as 800,000 Rwandans be hacked to death (men, women and children).
Bush is useless. But it's hard to call his foreign policies cowardly. Stupid, yes. But not cowardly.
One might argue that echos of Rowanda are at the heart of the problem now, and W. is not doing anything different.
Or the EU for that matter (although W. isn't block the security council like Clinton did, that's the only difference).

In reality, I don't blame Clinton.
There's a lot at work that really makes it difficult, as even the UN peacekeepers are running into.

Clinton did what he always does, play it safe. I think he's a coward.
A smart, well educated and personable man. But a coward.
I won't make such strong statements towards anyone.
In reality, a lot of the issues in African have a lot to do with ... tada ... resources!

They may try to make it about race and genocide, but a lot of it has to do with resources.
Why does that not surprise me?
 
Re: Echos of Rowanda ... but what's really at work here?

I won't make such strong statements towards anyone.
Okay, I'll let someone else condemn the Clinton Admin. over Rwanda for me...

From www.DemocracyNow.org from July 11, 2000.

'An independent panel commissioned by the Organization For African Unity charged this weekend that the United States...actively prevented peacekeepers from moving in to stop the mass killing of as many as 800,000 Rwandans in 1994.'
'The 318 page report challenged President Clinton's claim that the United States failure to act in Rwanda was due to ignorance of the extent of the atrocities unfolding there.'
'And it accused...Madeline Albright...of using 'stalling tactics' to prevent a military rescue mission.'

Stephen Lewis, one of the panel members, wondered at the press conference; 'how Madeline Albright lives with herself?'
 
I wonder if Israel is going to move against Iran? How will president Obama will act.
No I am a sore loser and very pissed off and just don't want to hear that everything the supermajority democrats fuck up it was Bush's fault.

who the hell cares about israel? let them defend themselves
 
Re: Echos of Rowanda ... but what's really at work here?

Okay, I'll let someone else condemn the Clinton Admin. over Rwanda for me...
I still didn't see "coward."

We all know and it's undeniable that the Clinton administration blocked the UN Security Council from moving on Rowanda until a lot of the fighting was decided.
And it's fairly well understood that the Clinton administration was "allergic" to Africa after the f-up in the Horn of Africa.
I'm sure Albright was "following orders" and probably got sick while engaged in the stalling.

But does it make him a "coward?" I chalk it more up to being inexperienced.
He wanted to avoid any African conflict, after he botched (and yes, it's on him) the prior special forces action (Denying AC-130s?! Other political BS?).

I'll be the first to say Clinton unilaterally acted more than any other President, even W. (W. just didn't get the UN resolution he wanted on Iraq).
Clinton did not bother to ask, and repeatedly struck without notice or argument (and I know several Americans, some Republicans, who prefer him because of that).

But I don't consider Clinton a coward.
 

maildude

Postal Paranoiac
The Clinton administration's foreign policy was far worse then almost any other President's ever because of one country: Rwanda

It has been proven that he and Madeline Albright knew about the incredible carnage that was about to happen in Rwanda and yet not only did nothing to help those that were about to be slaughtered. But supported the UN pulling out and let as many as 800,000 Rwandans be hacked to death (men, women and children).

Bush is useless. But it's hard to call his foreign policies cowardly. Stupid, yes. But not cowardly.

Clinton did what he always does, play it safe. I think he's a coward.

A smart, well educated and personable man. But a coward.

It was more political than that. Paul Kagame led the Tutsi RPF army and began the attacks on the Hutus first from Uganda then into the country itself. Guess where Kagame got his training? Yep. In the U.S. Additionally the neighboring country of Burundi was having similar problems. So you had three countries bordering each other in East Africa all experiencing levels of the same civil war. That's a lot of Africa to police. Plus it wasn't just the U.S. Practically no UN member state listened to UNAMIR's calls for more support. After the RPF captured the country and continued their own brand of slaughter, Kagame moved the war into Zaire, allying with a marxist leader there. During this time the U.S. was supplying arms to militia groups involved in the conflict--along with China. But not to the same side. China being a major importer from Rwanda.
 
I am here to declare A Don Equis Go fuck yourself thread.

Yep I can do that with my hands and some lotion, wanna see? I mean you really should start a thread like that since you feel so offended that can't even debate or argue, just have to get personal...:rofl: at you
 
Yep I can do that with my hands and some lotion, wanna see? I mean you really should start a thread like that since you feel so offended that can't even debate or argue, just have to get personal...:rofl: at you

Na.. I just got better things to do with my life.
 
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