And thank God for that. OPPS!!!!
Yes let us all thank the Lord for the Glorious day the Bible /b/ pissing match thread was started :bowdown:
The bible explained by /b/
Yes let us all thank the Lord for the Glorious day the Bible /b/ pissing match thread was started :bowdown:
Apparently, many of you or people you know haven't had many life altering experiences where it was obvious that a higher power was at work. Or maybe you have and are too blind to see it, or just in denial as I stated above. I can tell for a fact that there are powers other than science that are at work which humans cannot comprehend.
For instance, I know a man who was practically on his death bed at the hospital. Three different doctors told him he had less than a week to live and to make out a will. This man prayed because he felt he wasn't ready to die yet. This was about three years ago. He is working a full time job and functioning just fine. Many of his friends say it is a miracle he is even walking around.
I know another man who was in a car wreck and the bones in his feet were literally turned to powder. The doctors said his feet needed to be amputated because they would just grow back as solid bone and he wouldn't be able to walk anyway. He refused to have his feet amputated and a year after the wreck his feet healed. He can use his toes and everything.
There are also several accounts I've heard of cancer disappearing. Not to mention the many times my prayers have worked.....so much in fact that it couldn't just be a coincidence. So while you all worship your little Dawkin's books (hmmmm, a bunch of people believing blindly in a man's writing that they don't even know........isn't that what atheists claim about the Bible all the time?) I will continue to observe the actual observable facts of the happenings in the world around me.
:hatsoff:
For instance, I know a man who was practically on his death bed at the hospital. Three different doctors told him he had less than a week to live and to make out a will. This man prayed because he felt he wasn't ready to die yet. This was about three years ago. He is working a full time job and functioning just fine. Many of his friends say it is a miracle he is even walking around.
I know another man who was in a car wreck and the bones in his feet were literally turned to powder. The doctors said his feet needed to be amputated because they would just grow back as solid bone and he wouldn't be able to walk anyway. He refused to have his feet amputated and a year after the wreck his feet healed. He can use his toes and everything.
There are also several accounts I've heard of cancer disappearing. Not to mention the many times my prayers have worked.....so much in fact that it couldn't just be a coincidence. So while you all worship your little Dawkin's books (hmmmm, a bunch of people believing blindly in a man's writing that they don't even know........isn't that what atheists claim about the Bible all the time?) I will continue to observe the actual observable facts of the happenings in the world around me.
:hatsoff:
I don't worship Dawkin's books. I'm not his biggest fan at all. Not every atheist reads his books. Some just don't believe in god because they have come to that conclusion independently of any grand atheistic text.
Its very dangerous to start attributing recovery from illness to praying to God. Particularly in regards to cancer. & where is the evidence from your "several accounts". & I dispute your claim that "it couldn't just be a coincidence". How many people globally have, when diagnosed with cancer, prayed to their god to be healed? How many of them have then been miraculously healed? Those that weren't, did they just not pray hard enough? :dunno:
Every time I'm in financial trouble I beg to Fortuna, the goddess of luck. It's superstition & I know it (I compare it to the superstitions sportspeople have), but strangely enough I've always gotten out of my financial problems, after which I've (nearly) always thanked her.
Considering the amount of people who don't do this & who go down trying to deal with the same financial problems I have already dealt with, this cannot be a coincidence.
According to your logic, this must mean that Fortuna exists...
Lack of an explanation is not evidence :hatsoff: As to your observable facts. A fact is something wich is the same for everyone. For example, I'm a woman, you need oxygene to live, you can drink water in its liquid form. Those are facts. You experiencing something a certain way and subsequently claiming it to be a fact does not make it one. Surely you must be able to understand that.
I'm not saying people shouldn't take medicine or anything like that to recover from an illness, I'm just pointing out things that can't be scientifically explained. So please explain to me medically or scientifically how the cancer just "went away." No chemo or anything.......just gone. And my friend whom three doctors said would be dead within a week? How were all three of them wrong?
As for my evidence? I don't think there is a way I can prove that on a porn forum. I'm not going to ask them to come here to give testimonials. :1orglaugh
Even if I did, you would probably just claim it was me all along........so, you just have to take my word for it. Or not, hell you're grown people....its your decision what you want to believe. I'm just stating accounts I've witnessed.
I actually know a woman who believes in God that is dying fron cancer. I don't know why God works the way He does, and I don't claim to know. Isn't there a saying that God works in mysterious ways? :dunno:
So please....explain. Scientifically, how is a dead man walking around and going to work everyday. His liver is shot. Oh, and he has diabetes too. Please.........explain. :hatsoff:
Rattrap
Doesn't feed trolls and would appreciate it if you
There may very well be things that we haven't quantified and/or qualified yet. There's all sorts of stories of amazing human feats, and doubtless some are true.
However.
This doesn't at all point to a God. That's fitting the facts to the conclusion, rather than the conclusion to the facts. Why must we ascribe our feats to some other power? Who's to say that human beings don't have our own innate, yet-undiscovered power? It's certainly far more plausible than "God". I don't necessarily doubt your anecdotes - but it's a sure stretch of logic to say they make God.
The problem with arguments from personal experience is that the human mind is grossly fallible. We're programmed to see patterns even when they do not exist; it's how we evolved. That's why people see the man's face on Mars, or Satan's face in the smoke from the Twin Towers. That's why I see the number 47 absolutely everywhere.
Do you know why drugs are often used to create spiritual moments, and why in those moments one feels like everything is truly connected, and divine? Literally, it's pathways in your brain getting mixed. Networks that weren't normally connected become so, so your brain wiring connects in a funny way, reproducing that effect on your view of the world. Drugs, as we all know, are good for mucking about with the brain's chemistry, though it doesn't necessarily take any outside influence to produce this effect.
You're going for a cheap shot here, but it simply isn't so. You say "blindly"; every argument from Dawkins I've read I've considered and looked elsewhere for supporting and opposing evidence/logic.
In any case, you see Dawkins popping up so often because he's filled a niche more successfully than anyone else, writing popular science for a general audience. You don't have to have studied any philosophy of religions to understand The God Delusion, for example (though it certainly enhanced it!). The Greatest Show on Earth, while a bit heavy, needs no prior education behind the typical high school-level of evolution to get it. For what it's worth though, my favorite text on thinking critically remains the book by Carl Sagan I mentioned earlier in this thread. The invisible dragon in my garage cured my cancer!
I don't doubt your "observable facts of the happenings in the world", but your conclusion to what causes them is dubious.
Well if he's walking around and going to work everyday then clearly he's not dead.
But if he's dead then having diabetes is the least of his problems!
Well if he's walking around and going to work everyday then clearly he's not dead.
But if he's dead then having diabetes is the least of his problems!
Har har! You know what I meant.
:wave2:
Hi new here, Decided I'd get in on the action! Sporty havent you heard of the placebo effect? Modern medicine only does so much, At the end of the day it is up the individual to recover. Did you also know that the liver is a highly regenerative organ? Also their are many past alcoholics that have done incredible damage to their bodies as well as junkies still walking around, live and kicking after decades of abuse.
Plus its urban legend as well but paramedics could tell you stories about people dying from non fatal wounds whereas someone completely fucked up survives. Quite simply it is will power, the desire to live sub consciously and the fight in a person to live.
Many of the cases you stated, the personal belief and faith of that individual likely plays a large role that enables them to make a recovery. This in no way proves that god exists but rather that the individual was able to recover, their faith perhaps augmented what was going on sub consciously and their body did the rest.
You should look up some eastern philosophy and stuff regarding Chi it really is rather interesting. Eventually this energy will be quantified by science.
ed007
Banned
This is the perfect example of why I keep coming back to this thread. This is hilarious but the problem is I think you are actually being serious. :eek:
I wish there was a way to get you to take a few huge steps back so you can read your post from a different perspective: a picture and frame type scenario.
I "think" which means I'm not sure that most non believers
just want some hard evidence. You haven't provided any.
Where is your "evidence" of a higher power? I personally "think" there could be a higher power but I have yet to see any real evidence. You haven't provided any.
If you are right that there are powers that humans cannot comprehend then why are you trying to make us understand something you have admitted we and "you" can't comprehend?
Interesting stories but once again no evidence.
Hmmmm! I have to ask what did you pray for and what did you get?
A new pair of socks and a red hat, perhaps?
Why doesn't this higher power answer everyone's prayers?
Why did this higher power decide to answer your prayers and not Patrick Swayze's. He died of cancer last year. RIP.
I believe mrtrebus answered this point well. :hatsoff:
I'll just add once again you have no evidence who has or hasn't read Dawkin's books. I haven't.
I just want to see some real hard evidence. I feel like a broken record. :wave2:
I believe Boothbabe answered this point well. :hatsoff:
I can't wait for you to deliver just one piece of evidence that you can prove. I don't "think" it will ever happen, will it? :dunno:
I'll give you two examples of providing evidence:
1.
Up until very recently I didn't believe that the OCSMs were
real. However, having watched a few minutes of a few
webcam shows I can confirm they are who they say they are. Just for the record, I think webcam shows are quite boring unless the OCSM has something interesting to say.
But the point is I know they are who they say they are.
It's called hard evidence. Petra and/or Roald can also confirm they are who they say they are. I'm 100% confident and I don't need to reply on "faith". That's just not good enough.
2.
If I said I think I'm a multi millionaire most intelligent people would pay no attention. However, if I said I have 10 million pounds in my bank account. I would expect a few people like Will E Worm or Boothbabe etc. to ask me to prove it. If my reply was just have faith. What would you think? I'm sure the answer would be ed007 is full of
However, if I agreed to go to a relevant bank of your choice and get a cashier to print out a statement of account that proved I indeed have 10 million pounds in my account that's called hard evidence. I would not expect anyone to rely on faith. Can you guys not understand this concept? The difference between a fact that can be proved and faith which can't be proved.
I take faith from hard proof aka evidence. Nothing less and nothing more will do.
Thank you. :wave2:
I wish there was a way to get you to take a few huge steps back so you can read your post from a different perspective: a picture and frame type scenario.
I "think" which means I'm not sure that most non believers
just want some hard evidence. You haven't provided any.
Where is your "evidence" of a higher power? I personally "think" there could be a higher power but I have yet to see any real evidence. You haven't provided any.
If you are right that there are powers that humans cannot comprehend then why are you trying to make us understand something you have admitted we and "you" can't comprehend?
Interesting stories but once again no evidence.
Hmmmm! I have to ask what did you pray for and what did you get?
A new pair of socks and a red hat, perhaps?
Why doesn't this higher power answer everyone's prayers?
Why did this higher power decide to answer your prayers and not Patrick Swayze's. He died of cancer last year. RIP.
I believe mrtrebus answered this point well. :hatsoff:
I'll just add once again you have no evidence who has or hasn't read Dawkin's books. I haven't.
I just want to see some real hard evidence. I feel like a broken record. :wave2:
I believe Boothbabe answered this point well. :hatsoff:
I can't wait for you to deliver just one piece of evidence that you can prove. I don't "think" it will ever happen, will it? :dunno:
I'll give you two examples of providing evidence:
1.
Up until very recently I didn't believe that the OCSMs were
real. However, having watched a few minutes of a few
webcam shows I can confirm they are who they say they are. Just for the record, I think webcam shows are quite boring unless the OCSM has something interesting to say.
But the point is I know they are who they say they are.
It's called hard evidence. Petra and/or Roald can also confirm they are who they say they are. I'm 100% confident and I don't need to reply on "faith". That's just not good enough.
2.
If I said I think I'm a multi millionaire most intelligent people would pay no attention. However, if I said I have 10 million pounds in my bank account. I would expect a few people like Will E Worm or Boothbabe etc. to ask me to prove it. If my reply was just have faith. What would you think? I'm sure the answer would be ed007 is full of
However, if I agreed to go to a relevant bank of your choice and get a cashier to print out a statement of account that proved I indeed have 10 million pounds in my account that's called hard evidence. I would not expect anyone to rely on faith. Can you guys not understand this concept? The difference between a fact that can be proved and faith which can't be proved.
I take faith from hard proof aka evidence. Nothing less and nothing more will do.
Thank you. :wave2:
Finally, proof that god exists
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gödel's_ontological_proof
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gödel's_ontological_proof
Will E Worm
Conspiracy...
:1orglaugh No
Will E Worm
Conspiracy...
No :tongue:
It only explains enough for you to understand