Survey: Europeans back veil ban, Americans opposed
Wait, denying women the right to wear veils is promoting their rights? I understand the argument...the idea that this isn't voluntary among these women. But there have been scores of Muslim women...single, educated Muslim women who explain that this is a voluntary decision among many of them. Wasn't there female college students that actively protested a similar ban in Turkey? And if veils are outlawed, don't you think the men that you argue control them would just keep them out of the public eye further?
I have a problem with the veils and a problem with the ban. I really don't have a concrete opinion. But the notion of denying somebody a right to ensure that they have rights seems a bit dishonest to me.
GregCentauro
Banned
Most Muslim girls and women don't wear the headscarf or burqa of their own choosing. It is common practice for many Muslim schoolgirls in Europe to leave the house veiled and secretly change into casual wear on their way to school, knowing full well that if their family finds out, they would face serious consequences.
A ban would not solve the problem but it is a symbol. Just like the scarf is not just a piece of cloth but a symbol.
Like Johan said, France's society in particular is based on secularism. That means no religious symbols are allowed in the public domain. It's a simple rule that doesn't discriminate against any group, because it applies to all groups.
Of course, you will always find the odd woman who wants to go veiled. I want to stroll naked through town sometimes. I'm not allowed to do so. Is that an infringement of my civil rights or is it a way to sustain public order? You'll be the judge.
I agree. It's only going to make many of them be locked away in a house but hubbies won't let them out and that is way worse than people complaining about the burka. Though I understand why they don't want them to wear them while driving. You can't see left or right really in them. It's not safe for the them or the general public.
Knowing hundreds of muslims through friends and customers I've never heard of girls leaving their homes veiled and changing into casual wear, firstly you would never get away with it and secondly you can't often wear veils in school, mainly due to Health & Safety. I've heard of muslim girls leaving home dressed conservatively (ie headscarves, long sleeve tops, trousers or long skirts) then changing into lower cut sleeveless tops or skirts (or shorter skirts) if they are going to college or a party or a club etc. You'll also find that most women that wear veils in Europe do so voluntarily, I've seen women out shopping wearing veils whilst their mum or/and sometimes sister will be dressed casually with their hair flowing and make up on, this would make no sense if they were being oppressed by the males in the home, come to think of it I don't recall seeing a family where all the women were veiled, there's always a mix and some days a women will be unveiled and on another day she will have on a headscarf or veil, some days they just feel like wearing it. I think a major factor in how muslim women (and men) now dress is the war on terror, many view this as a war on islam and have isolated themselves into their own community as they feel targeted by non muslims, and the easiest way to isolate yourself is to dress differently. Over the past 5-10 years I've seen many women begin wearing veils or headscarves as well as men growing their beards and wearing traditional islamic dress and regularly attending mosques, guys who I never thought would become so religious.
Although I'm sure wearing the veil is voluntary in the majority of cases, I feel many of the women wrongly interpret what the religion asks of them, some people believe the veil is more of a cultural thing that has morphed into a religious one. In any case I'm all for the veil being banned in public places, there's health & safety and security but also in areas such as schools or workplaces I feel the veil is a barrier to effective communication and ultimately integration. Seeing someones facial expressions is key to understanding that person and getting to know them on even the basic level, if we want a harmonious integrated society we need to at least see one anothers faces, women can continue wearing their veil at home or private/family functions if they still choose to do so.
Another case of governments trying to bandage something and failing miserably.
Banning it won't solve anything, if anything it will make it worse, not to mention it's basically government saying "We can decide what religious beliefs are O K .
The only way to get these women to not be "oppressed" if you truly think that they are is to educate them and let them make their own decision, that's freedom.
Banning it won't solve anything, if anything it will make it worse, not to mention it's basically government saying "We can decide what religious beliefs are O K .
The only way to get these women to not be "oppressed" if you truly think that they are is to educate them and let them make their own decision, that's freedom.
If somebody want to follow a stupid religion and they don't hurt anybody else it's not my job to stop what they do. It's also not my place to tell somebody else what religion or principles they want to pass on to their children. However, I do think there are legitimate security concerns with people able to go around in public with their faces covered. I think this is an instance where the people over there that want to ban burkas and veils got it right, but they got it right for the wrong reasons.
So blind people can't be part of a harmonious integrated society I guess. . .:dunno:
emceeemcee
Banned
hmmm
I don't much care for Islam, or any other retarded skygod religion but I don't think legislating against this is the way to go, sounds like it comes from the same mindset as passing laws against discussion of the holocaust. If this burqa shit is going to change it's going to have to do it by the women themselves wanting to throw off the veil and having the courage to tell their husbands to get fucked for telling them to wear it or else. In short, more heretics are what is required here. Ayaan Hirsi Ali is a trend setter.
Then again, they don't let you walk into a bank with a motorcycle helmet on for a reason so there is the whole question of security.
But then again, what if they actually want to wear them? Then what's going to happen? Can't tell people what to wear....
I don't much care for Islam, or any other retarded skygod religion but I don't think legislating against this is the way to go, sounds like it comes from the same mindset as passing laws against discussion of the holocaust. If this burqa shit is going to change it's going to have to do it by the women themselves wanting to throw off the veil and having the courage to tell their husbands to get fucked for telling them to wear it or else. In short, more heretics are what is required here. Ayaan Hirsi Ali is a trend setter.
Then again, they don't let you walk into a bank with a motorcycle helmet on for a reason so there is the whole question of security.
But then again, what if they actually want to wear them? Then what's going to happen? Can't tell people what to wear....
vodkazvictim
Why save the world, when you can rule it?
If the survey team had been able to find the ninjas to survey their opinions then things might have been different, but of course hey couldn't.
Now the ninjas will find the survey team...
Just wear the headscarves. I've seen plenty of women wearing them here and there are no problems. You've still got your religious thing going on but it also shows your trying to fit in with the rest of society in the country you chose to immigrate to.
I'm an immigrant and I'm all for keeping your customs and beliefs from your old country but you have to realize that when you come to a new country you have to adapt to it and not the other way around otherwise just stay in your old country and quit bitching.
I'm an immigrant and I'm all for keeping your customs and beliefs from your old country but you have to realize that when you come to a new country you have to adapt to it and not the other way around otherwise just stay in your old country and quit bitching.
I don't like countries where the authorities tell people what to wear or not to wear. Like Saudi Arabia.
If people like to wear veil, niqab or burka or walk around stark naked must be their own choice.
I met the one with the scarf in Copenhagen. She is a punk and a muslim. A good example that muslim women are as different as any other women. And not that homogenous mass many of you like to make them.
If people like to wear veil, niqab or burka or walk around stark naked must be their own choice.
I met the one with the scarf in Copenhagen. She is a punk and a muslim. A good example that muslim women are as different as any other women. And not that homogenous mass many of you like to make them.
very true my friend :yesyes::elaugh: but it is because of these damn socialist son of bitches that always were in favor in mixity social as well as assisting these fucking rotten ragheads by paying them healthcare and social security since 1975. Socialists have unfortunately won the regional elections but in 2012 we will have again the presidential elections, I will vote for the right and I will make everything possible so that the left can't pass. The left wing in the France is the plague and the source of all the main problems,the ragheads in question vote for the leftists. So fuck leftism and its ideas :thefinger::violent:
Think about this Georges for a sec. If the average guy on the right...thinks and talks like you...is it a wonder why people there side with the left for if nothing more than not identifying with people who think and talk like you?
Not everyone sides with the left in France, but mainly the poor uneducated people, the students, the teachers, the persons having a liberal job and the ghetto crowd backs the left and always did. I and several other people know who are the troublemakers in my country and who is involved in burning cars, attacking jewish students, breaking stores's shop windows, harassing respectable girls, but also what is to be constantly blackmailed by ragheads asking for things they don't deserve. There has been far too much lenience and tolerance when not punishing them enough severely. You have no clue of that because you don't live in my country. It is because of badinter, another socialist idiot that the death penalty has been abolished in France in 1981. I assume my convictions plainly and fully as I always did. I am not going to show pity for scumbags and anyone burning cars, breaking shop windows, harassing girls and trying to rape them as well as attacking other people because of their religion. Everyone in France knows who these scumbags are and where they come from. For your information, there is also racism against whites in France.
Well duh. Being from France shouldn't you know better than anyone the left represents most of those you cite since the origins of left/right politics comes from French Estates of Realm?
Not to excuse anything you said here because I personally don't know other than to say there are "troublemakers" of all types almost everywhere.
But are saying France was trouble, crime and idiot free before people originating in other nations got there? For the record...yes...everyone knows racism exist and whites aren't the exclusive perpetrators of it.
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