Should the U.S.A. have conqured the world?

[Member2019]

Re: Don't say what I did not, maintain the CONTEXT of what I said ...

First I think any reading of the 1st post above shows an assertion that the US is somehow more benevolent as an imperalist power ...

More benevolent than the UK, Spain and -- God Help Us -- France? Hell yes! Maintain context! I don't know how specific I can be. This is the problem. Understand I'm not a left or right winger. As such, do not argue with my statements as if they are.

If you don't want to read my long posts, fine! But don't try to state what I say when it is not what I say. And even worse, don't try to take what I say and "apply" your assumptions of left or right wing to "match" what you think I'm siding with.

You have the full right to ignore me. However, you do not have any right to disagree with things I do not say.

Again back to cuba before the revolution the literacy rate was below 10%,by the 70s it was over 90% due to to Fidels policys.And I will unabashedly say I think Fidel was one of the great men of the last century.

Sorry ... you just lost me. Honestly, people don't look at what really goes on down there, but just what he likes to show you. That's what total control and dictatorships do. They shut down any independent

Even one of Michael Moore's own in his movie Sicko had some interesting things to say. The same can be said for numerous people shown in his 9/11 movie. Unfortunately, Cuba is not as free as the US, so you can find fewer people who will talk.

Even North Korea has some great statistics. As does the US control over Cuba, Puerto Rico, the Philippines, etc... versus the Spanish before, etc... It's all how you want to play it. We can play that game forever.

Even the Russians came to the conclusion that Castro would have launched tactical nukes into the US at some point, regardless of the quite public agreement and understanding that the US would never invade Cuba post-Missile Crisis. Say what you want about various US Presidents, but at least we do have a line we do not cross.

People who crossed Castro, like Chavez, are people you don't hear from again.

 

[titsrock]

Japan does not have a socialist system. A socialist system requires ****** membership. Japan has a public good system, big difference. People choose to associate with groups for group rights.

It's the difference between "common good" and "communism," big difference.

You should not conflate socialism with communism. They are two different ideologies. Socialism is successful, historically over time. Communism is not successful historically over time.

I would like to agree with you about Japan's political system because they have Universal Healthcare and one of the standard arguments against Universal Healthcare offered up by the Republicans and Conservatives is that it is socialism or socialized medicine or that our Democratic Republic can not function with Universal Healthcare. Perhaps our country could learn something from Japan about how to integrate a successful Universal Healthcare program for a populace outside of socialism.:thumbsup:

 

[D-rock]

Re: Don't say what I did not, maintain the CONTEXT of what I said ...

And I will unabashedly say I think Fidel was one of the great men of the last century.The difference in the lives of the overwhelming majority of cubans after the revolution is extremely stark for the better.Has he been repressive of dissent at times and imperfect yes but lets not forget he was also under constant pressure and threat of invasion by the most powerfull country on earth just 90 miles to his north (the US).Given that, the measures taken to protect the regime seem very reasonable IMO.

One of the great men of the last century? Is that a joke? Sometimes Friday I agree with you on a lot of things, and others you perplex me to no end. Just ask yourself it your being a little hypocritical here. I think you are. I have a feeling if Fidel was here and did the things he did that you would be constantly telling everybody how he was even a lot worse than Bush was and calling for his head, and rightfully so. I also like how you more or less totally gloss over things like the infringement of some of the most basic of human rights. That would be similar to somebody praising Hitler because he made the trains run on time despite being a flawed human being because he caused the greatest atrocities of modern times and tried to ********** take over a continent. I don't know about you but that speaks of a person that is more than a little "imperfect" or somebody that is just a little flawed. It certainly isn’t what one should consider a great man of the century. Not only that, but considering the amount of ************ he has done I wonder how many of those happy citizens would still be happy if they ever had a chance to live somewhere else and experience it then made to go back instead of being told what to like there entire lives and having it ****** into their heads. Chavez might end up being even worse than Castro at the rate he's going.

 

[Member2019]

You should not conflate socialism with communism. They are two different ideologies. Socialism is successful, historically over time. Communism is not successful historically over time.

Okay, I will concede I was mixing things up a bit. But there is still the desire of the US to see an economy grow with entities that are on the world economic stage, even if not like ours, because it's good for the wealth of the nation and employment of its workforce. Understand I was making a point versus post-WWI and terms of other wars and/or colonization.

I would like to agree with you about Japan's political system because they have Universal Healthcare and one of the standard arguments against Universal Healthcare offered up by the Republicans and Conservatives is that it is socialism or socialized medicine or that our Democratic Republic can not function with Universal Healthcare. Perhaps our country could learn something from Japan about how to integrate a successful Universal Healthcare program for a populace outside of socialism.:thumbsup:

The average Japanese citizen has a far better understanding of community than the average American. We can learn from that in general, on many things, and we must before we can tackle the harder, social issues that many Americans keep fucking up -- privately and publicly.

 

[marquis2]

Strangely enough if you need medical attention as a member of the US ****** you get socialised treatment and it works well.

 

[Friday on my mind]

Re: Don't say what I did not, maintain the CONTEXT of what I said ...

One of the great men of the last century? Is that a joke? Sometimes Friday I agree with you on a lot of things, and others you perplex me to no end. Just ask yourself it your being a little hypocritical here. I think you are. I have a feeling if Fidel was here and did the things he did that you would be constantly telling everybody how he was even a lot worse than Bush was and calling for his head, and rightfully so. I also like how you more or less totally gloss over things like the infringement of some of the most basic of human rights. That would be similar to somebody praising Hitler because he made the trains run on time despite being a flawed human being because he caused the greatest atrocities of modern times and tried to ********** take over a continent. I don't know about you but that speaks of a person that is more than a little "imperfect" or somebody that is just a little flawed. It certainly isn’t what one should consider a great man of the century. Not only that, but considering the amount of ************ he has done I wonder how many of those happy citizens would still be happy if they ever had a chance to live somewhere else and experience it then made to go back instead of being told what to like there entire lives and having it ****** into their heads. Chavez might end up being even worse than Castro at the rate he's going.

Nope it is no joke, I am dead serious about what I think of him.On this issue of "brain washing" I think we had this discussion before and my point was that it goes on everywhere.In other words I think people like americans who believe Castro has not been been much better than what he replaced and does not have overwhelming support of the cuban people are the ones who are expressing much more of a brain washed attitude.
Further If he has been repressive of dissedents at times as I said above we have to keep in mind he has been opposed by the greatest power on earth (the US) who would use every means internal and external it could have to undermine and overthrow his govt.How many plots the CIA had to **** him was recently revealed and it was very many.Before Castro 80% of all the land was the property of foreigners (mostly americans) and and literacy among the people was less then 10%.Now all the land is in the hands of the cuban people and literacy is one of the highest in the world.The cubans aren't brainwashed thinking he has brought a much better life to them and freed them from american exploitation.Castro may not have been a change that helped america and its interests but clearly it was in the cubans interests and IMO that is what a leader is suppose to do,act in his peoples interests.But not act in a way some powers like the US and the soviets as well acted which was to repress freedom in places like cuba or eastern europe for their own agenda's.Times have changed to where those kinds of policys have too much "blow back" and end up costing the country using them in the long run.A lot of our problems in the mid east and the hatred of america that has grown is due to such.We have done things in the name of capitalism etc to weaker countries especially to our neighbors to the south of us for decades and longer.Anyone who knows the history of imperalism and expolitation of such peoples is aware of this.Most american history books of the past do not reveal the truth of it to the american people but what else is new or to be expected.But the information is easily obtainable.

 

[Peter Gazinya]

Us conquer the world? Never happen, there's way too many dumb motherfuckers in this country to ever sustain a dominance over the rest of the world's population. Exhibit A: Our government. Look what our collective dumbasses have put into place over the last 230 odd years. This collection of megalomaniacal sociopaths couldn't successively run an Office Depot, you think we could conquer the world?

Guns N' Roses had a better chance of that, and look what happened to them.

 

[Member2019]

This is your major folly ...

In other words I think people like americans who believe Castro has not been been much better than what he replaced and does not have overwhelming support of the cuban people are the ones who are expressing much more of a brain washed attitude.

This, in essence, is your major folly.

You say we are brainwashed in the US. Yet we also and totally disagree with our leaders, elect them by slim margins and, otherwise, totally "go after them" with both our free media and our right to assembly.

Then you say things like "overwhelming support" in other country's justify how "right" their leaders are. Castro, Chavez, etc... In reality, look at what noy just what American (US) citizens think of Castro, Chavez, etc..., but what others in the non-US Americans think!

Supermajorities are actualy dangerous, in general, in my opinion. It's how dictators come to power, and then -- even if they were honest and genuine at first -- quickly become their own "cult of personality." Chavez already showed his when the people shot down his amendments only for him to put them into law with his ever sweeping powers later.

If there is one thing the US learned in its foundation, and has learned as part of its own acts of stupid, self-interest in the Americas and elsewhere in the 20th Century, it's that leaders should never have broad powers and the terms of their highest Executives should be limited. Otherwise the "supermajority" of the people stay dumb, disillusioned and without any freedoms.

You can talk about Chavez's popularity, but even a majority of his people disagreed with him not too long ago. He just installed the same laws later on, using the powers they previous gave him. Anyone who disagrees with him is finding themselves accused of being "in bed with the Americans" and no longer seen. Same thing Castro did. Is that freedom? Or isn't it tyranny?

Especially overusing the American angle again and again to hold citizens against their will. That's why leaders like Castro and Chavez often scare the dickens out of most non-US Americans more than the US. You can't have political prisoners here in the US without people freely protesting, per their right. There is no right in Cuba and many other places.

 

[don_equis]

Keeping in line with my controversial threads that solve nothing, I ask, retrospectively, if U.S.A should have conquered the World after the World War 2, when it was the only one with the bomb. !!

Conquered places such as Russia after war. And kept Islamic countires in check. I commonly hear "turn sand into crater of glass solids". Also, U.S.A could have expanded into Mexico. Or something. Hell NO!!

I'm going to obviously say no, because I think it woud be immoral, but the world would honestly better place? I love diversity and we do make our share of enemies and vice versa it's just the way of cultures.

This is all retrospective though.

Weird topic I know. Just basicly, woud the world be a better place with a U.S.A. control?

Good weird topic...some places like North Korea should have been turned over to South Korea, but what if then that country would turn into a civil war, we wouild get the blame for it.

 

[Artimus]

Nope. Empires are expensive to maintain and administrate. Plus people have a natural tendency to rebel against occupiers (often violently) regardless of how magnanimous those occupiers are.

 

[Member2019]

Indeed ...

Good weird topic...some places like North Korea should have been turned over to South Korea, but what if then that country would turn into a civil war, we wouild get the blame for it.

Actually, we did. It was called the Korean War. You'll find plenty of people who blame us for it, accused us of helping install a "puppet democracy," etc...

Had the North won the Korean War, taking over the South, instead of it being reduced to a stalemate, history might be very different. Instead, we still have a free South, enjoying peace for a half century, and a huge difference in the average citizen's lifestyle.

Imagine if that would have happened in other, alleged "American Imperialist Actions"? I mean, the US is blamed for atrocities caused by non-Americans, especially those ******* civilians in the name of "getting rid of the American influence."

South Korea is a great example of what happens when you just let it be. It's not perfect. And hell, the US gets blamed for the nuclear issue (even though all 6 countries, even China, have publicly stated and now agreed the 2 party agreement in 1994 was a mistake). But you do have people with good standards of living and freedom compared to the other side.

 

[marquis2]

Nope. Empires are expensive to maintain and administrate. Plus people have a natural tendency to rebel against occupiers (often violently) regardless of how magnanimous those occupiers are.

True.The British found this out-once the native inhabitants wanted us to go there was nothing much we could do about it.The biggest problem was trying to leave a stable administration.

 

[Member2019]

Unfortunately ..

True.The British found this out-once the native inhabitants wanted us to go there was nothing much we could do about it.The biggest problem was trying to leave a stable administration.

Unfortunately the people reach a point they don't want to listen to their conquerors, or anyone else who comes after them and looks like them.

Vietnam was a perfect example. People talk about how Americans don't care about the differences between Sunni, Shite and Kurd (which isn't true, most Americans actually do that I know). It can be even worse in reverse!

The overwhelming majority of Vietnamese looked at Americans no different than the French. I mean, if you're an American soldier in Vietnam, how did you prove you weren't French? Even avoiding the same atrocities that the French enacted on civilians didn't help, there were always some collateral, and that was enough, let alone the skin looked the same and the language didn't seem that much different.