Should Britain have sunk the Bismarck? Sailor reveals how Germans tried to surrender

Sad if and probably true and further proof of the atrocities committed in wartime on a whim through anger by all sides where the rules of engagement become worthless. RIP Sailors of The Bismarck and The Hood

Should we have sunk the Bismarck? Tormented sailor reveals how Germans tried to surrender before ship was destroyed costing 2,000 lives


With her steering jammed and her speed slashed by torpedo attacks, the Bismarck and her crew of 2,200 were a sitting duck for the Royal Navy.

And in two hours the German battleship was a helpless wreck of twisted metal, raging fires and dead and dying crew.

But the ship’s agony was not over. After the bombardment by British battleships, she was finished off by torpedoes, slipping under the Atlantic with all but 200 of those aboard.

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Tommy Byers, pictured left aged 78 and, right, as a young sailor during WWII. He witnessed the attempted surrender of the Bismarck 70 years ago


For the Royal Navy it was a triumph – revenge for the Bismarck’s destruction of the pride of the fleet, HMS Hood, days earlier.

But the son of one of the British sailors who saw Bismarck’s end 70 years ago today has come forward to claim that the battle might have ended very differently – because the German crew tried to surrender at the height of the bombardment. Tommy Byers, a sailor on the British battleship Rodney, maintained until he died that the ship hoisted a black flag – the naval sign calling for parley.

He and a second seaman also saw a Morse code flash, which they interpreted as surrender, along with a man waving semaphore flags conveying the same message.

Royal Navy officers were made aware of the signs but were determined to follow Winston Churchill’s order to ‘sink the Bismarck’. The Prime Minister wanted to avenge the Hood, on which all but three of its 1,418 crew had died.

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Tommy served as a gunnery officer on HMS Rodney, whose mighty 16-inch guns destroyed the Bismarck. He told his son that the deaths of 2,000 men on board the Bismarck had tormented him


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Bismarck view from astern, before her May 1941 breakout to attack Allied shipping. The stern fell off when she turned over on being sunk, due to poor welding


Had the Bismarck been captured, the lives of hundreds of Germans could have been saved. The ship would also have been a prized catch, giving Navy engineers an insight into the design of Bismarck’s mighty sistership, Tirpitz.

The revelation has been unearthed by author Iain Ballantyne for a book about the Bismarck which has been published 70 years after the sinking on May 27, 1941.

One account he came across was an interview Mr Byers gave to his son Kevin before he died in 2004 aged 86.

Mr Byers, a gunnery officer on Rodney, saw the battle unfold through binoculars at a distance of two miles. The Rodney had closed to what was point-blank range in gunnery terms because the Bismarck was no longer firing back.

Mr Byers said: ‘Very early on men started jumping over board. They couldn’t stand the heat. One particular fella on top of B turret was waving his arms in semaphore.

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The Bismarck at sea during her doomed May 1941 deployment into the Atlantic


‘I saw this and I told the gunnery officer, Lieutenant Commander Crawford. He said, “I don’t want to know about any signal now”. She then flew a black flag…but he (Crawford) wasn’t having any of it.

‘Then she started blinking with her Morse lamps on the yard arm and he (Crawford) said “Don’t report anything more like that”.’

Kevin Byers, 52, from Portaferry, County Down, said: ‘Dad knew what he saw. He felt guilty he didn’t do more at the time but he wasn’t of high enough rank to be heard.

‘Something like 2,000 men died and this nagged away at him for the rest of his life.’

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Tommy Byers in 1948 towards the end of his Naval career


The second witness was Lieutenant Donald Campbell, the air defence officer on HMS Rodney. In his account of the sinking he said he saw the morse signal. This was also reported by a sailor on the cruiser HMS Dorsetshire.

The Bismarck had been hunted down relentlessly.

Crippled by torpedo attacks from the carrier Ark Royal, she tried to limp towards France but was cornered by Rodney and another battleship, King George V.

Terry Charman, of the Imperial War Museum, said the admiral on Bismarck had sent telegrams to Hitler that the ship would fight to the end. But he added: ‘It may be some of the crew wanted to surrender, they were in a hopeless position.’

Ian Ballantyne's book Killing The Bismarck is published by Pen and Sword Books.



Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...troyed-costing-2-000-lives.html#ixzz1NUz26MOb
 

Will E Worm

Conspiracy...
Re: Should Britain have sunk the Bismarck? Sailor reveals how Germans tried to surren

No, they should not have sunk the Bismarck.
 

LukeEl

I am a failure to the Korean side of my family
Re: Should Britain have sunk the Bismarck? Sailor reveals how Germans tried to surren

If the Bismarck wasn't sunk then what would Johnny Horton sing about?
 
Re: Should Britain have sunk the Bismarck? Sailor reveals how Germans tried to surren

Well the British understandably wanted revenge for the sinking of the Hood. That vessel went down with all but a tiny handful of survivors.
The Germans on the Bismark should've realized that after that sinking they were doomed.
 
Re: Should Britain have sunk the Bismarck? Sailor reveals how Germans tried to surren

how many POWs did the nazis starve or work to death? how many unarmed civilians did they massacre?
 

Mauser98k

Closed Account
Re: Should Britain have sunk the Bismarck? Sailor reveals how Germans tried to surren

had Bismarck not destroyed Hood, and if the story that Bismarck tried to surrender was true, the English would have welcomed it with arms wide open. Bismarck was a beast and would have plagued convoys for years. the sinking of Bismarck was the epitome of revenge.

that being said, i've never heard a German survivor say they tried to surrender. and i really doubt they would have let Bismarck fall into enemy hands while Germany was still at the height of her power.

if they did surrender, they would have disembarked and scuttled her for sure.
 

squallumz

knows petras secret: she farted.
Re: Should Britain have sunk the Bismarck? Sailor reveals how Germans tried to surren

shoulda coulda woulda!
 

Ace Boobtoucher

Founder and Captain of the Douchepatrol
Re: Should Britain have sunk the Bismarck? Sailor reveals how Germans tried to surren

Fuck yeah! Sink that fucker. Twice.
 
Re: Should Britain have sunk the Bismarck? Sailor reveals how Germans tried to surren

you know what, the Brits sank her. that was a very long time ago and it cant be changed. why bitch and moan about it now. british sailors that had their doubts about the situation deserve their thoughts, as they were there. but we have no say in it. let it be.
 

Rane1071

For the EMPEROR!!
Re: Should Britain have sunk the Bismarck? Sailor reveals how Germans tried to surren

Actually I've read that some of the German crew still claim that they scuttled the Bismarck rather than let it fall in British hands. ... and many British observer's said that they pounded the hell out of it, but it wouldn't go down.
 
Re: Should Britain have sunk the Bismarck? Sailor reveals how Germans tried to surren

Bismarck was a beast and would have plagued convoys for years.




The Bismarck like all other battlewagons was a floating target, just waiting to picked off by air power. Had she not been sunk in '41 she would've been by '42. The Bismarck's sister ship the Tirpitz (or as I call her Tirptitz) sat in a Norwegian fjord waiting for her eventual demise by Lancaster bombers later in the war.
 
Re: Should Britain have sunk the Bismarck? Sailor reveals how Germans tried to surren

Actually I've read that some of the German crew still claim that they scuttled the Bismarck rather than let it fall in British hands. ... and many British observer's said that they pounded the hell out of it, but it wouldn't go down.
The Bismarck was a beast of a battleship. I've read varying accounts of how many times it was struck. The lowest number I've ever heard was at least 300 hits, and some accounts had it being hit more than 1,000 times.

The Bismarck like all other battlewagons was a floating target, just waiting to picked off by air power. Had she not been sunk in '41 she would've been by '42. The Bismarck's sister ship the Tirpitz (or as I call her Tirptitz) sat in a Norwegian fjord waiting for her eventual demise by Lancaster bombers later in the war.
At first, it was in the fjord, because the Germans were afraid to bring her out, knowing the British would come after her, but a British mini-sub broke thru the sub nets and damaged her. After that, she was just a sitting duck and the bombers eventually got her.
 

Supafly

Retired Mod
Bronze Member
Re: Should Britain have sunk the Bismarck? Sailor reveals how Germans tried to surren

Even as a German, I think she had to be sunk. It is similar to the bombing of Dresden - A strong signal that makes the nazi spirit crumble.

That must be the mad logic of war - If you take prisoners and play fair, things will go on much longer.
 

Rane1071

For the EMPEROR!!
Re: Should Britain have sunk the Bismarck? Sailor reveals how Germans tried to surren

The saddest thing was after it went down. When they were picking up the Bismarck survivors there was apparently word of U-boats in the area. So theyhad to leave a lot of men in the water because the couldn't take the risk or getting attacked.
 
Re: Should Britain have sunk the Bismarck? Sailor reveals how Germans tried to surren

The saddest thing was after it went down. When they were picking up the Bismarck survivors there was apparently word of U-boats in the area. So theyhad to leave a lot of men in the water because the couldn't take the risk or getting attacked.

I remember hearing about that, probably worse than the actual sinking. The British sailors were more than happy to pick up German survivors who were no longer a threat but left so many stranded in the water after the U-boat threat was announced, when you hear that Churchill was intent on getting vengeance for the Hood it makes you wonder if there was an order from the top to say there was U-boats in the area to avoid picking up any survivors. Commands like that were easy for the generals etc to make but would have been very distressing the the British sailors who could see fellow men stranded in the water begging for help and then have to sail away and leave them to drown, maybe at the time the hatred of the enemy or the war mentality made it easier but I guess as the years go by it begins to haunt you as it seems to have done with the sailor in the article.
 

Rane1071

For the EMPEROR!!
Re: Should Britain have sunk the Bismarck? Sailor reveals how Germans tried to surren

I remember hearing about that, probably worse than the actual sinking. The British sailors were more than happy to pick up German survivors who were no longer a threat but left so many stranded in the water after the U-boat threat was announced, when you hear that Churchill was intent on getting vengeance for the Hood it makes you wonder if there was an order from the top to say there was U-boats in the area to avoid picking up any survivors. Commands like that were easy for the generals etc to make but would have been very distressing the the British sailors who could see fellow men stranded in the water begging for help and then have to sail away and leave them to drown, maybe at the time the hatred of the enemy or the war mentality made it easier but I guess as the years go by it begins to haunt you as it seems to have done with the sailor in the article.

Your right Uly, I wouldn't be surprised if Churchill did order it. But Hitler ordering the U-boats to commit "total war"didn't help. That just added to the fear mariners already had for submarines ... I can still remember one documentary I saw where they interviewed survivors from both sides. This one British seaman who was helping pick the survivors up saying how he was still haunted by it all these years later.
 
Re: Should Britain have sunk the Bismarck? Sailor reveals how Germans tried to surren

Your right Uly, I wouldn't be surprised if Churchill did order it. But Hitler ordering the U-boats to commit "total war"didn't help. That just added to the fear mariners already had for submarines ... I can still remember one documentary I saw where they interviewed survivors from both sides. This one British seaman who was helping pick the survivors up saying how he was still haunted by it all these years later.

Reminds me of this incident with the German and British roles reversed.

http://board.freeones.com/showthread.php?t=474887&highlight=Laconia
 

Rane1071

For the EMPEROR!!
Re: Should Britain have sunk the Bismarck? Sailor reveals how Germans tried to surren

That was a good article. I remember a BBC doco called "War of the Century" that mentioned that. Just show's that there's good and bad on any side. Also the futility and stupidity of war.
 

meesterperfect

Hiliary 2020
Re: Should Britain have sunk the Bismarck? Sailor reveals how Germans tried to surren

of course they should have.
what the hell else they gonna do let it go?
taken the whole crew prisoner and taken the ship?

At this point I'm just wondering why The USA and England were even fighting the Germans in the first place.
 
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