Pornstars VS Prostitutes?

I think part of it relates to the performers are paid for the right to publish their likeness in videos, photographs and other mediums, and not just to have sex.

I would guess that most porn companies make money and pay taxes, so they are probably left alone to some degree. Prostitution is a part of the underground economy in most areas, like selling illegal drugs. The government doesn't get their cut in those transactions.

Personally, I think prostitution should be legal in most places.
 

Rey C.

Racing is life... anything else is just waiting.
In this case though the girl ordinarily works as a prostitute

Nope. Actually this is her first time. She needs money to buy school books. :)

and this is a typical prostitution transaction except that the uncle is paying the nephew's bill. The uncle and nephew have an ongoing connection as uncle and nephew and the girl is clearly the only one being hired in this situation. The nephew isn't paying but the nephew clearly hasn't been hired here either.

OK, so he also gives the nephew a few bucks since he's nervous. And he's not really the kid's uncle, he just refers to him as such. But why should that even matter??? Where is that in any law and what sense would it make if it was? Do you see how convoluted this becomes?


However imagine a jurisdiction where incest is legal but prostitution is illegal. (eg some European countries). Someone hires a 38 year girl and her 19 year old son and pays them to have sex. This wouldn't be an act of prostitution since both are being hired.

Yeah, I don't know about that. That's going into pretty dark territory. I'm not going there.

My point is, the dog eventually has to eat his tail, as people try to attach a morality argument to one and a legal argument to the other in these cases. It's prostitution if one actor pays another actor, but if a third party pays, it's not? Why isn't it still "art"? If the guy rents an apartment for a girl and gets sex on the side, she's his "mistress" - and it's legal (or so many a sugar daddy hopes). If he pays her directly, she's a "prostitute" - and it's illegal. Makes absolutely no sense.

I'm not likening porn actors to prostitutes. I'm just saying that a lot of faulty, pretzel logic went into creating these bogus, over reaching laws. Let consenting adults do whatever they choose to do with one another. IMO, the government has no business getting involved in either situation (except to collect taxes on the earned income).
 
I was writing in another forum that there is a whole category of porn (with Ed Powers as the ultimate example) that seems to be to be people who make porn for the main purpose of being able to fuck hot women and get away with it. There's a lot of POV out there that has no art to it, it has crappy angles and much too much of some guy that nobody wants to see - but it's porn and not prostitution because there's a video and it's being put on a DVD or internet site.

See, now if Elliott Spitzer had just filmed his sexual encounters and claimed to be a porn auteur and that he was paying the woman for her "performance", he'd have been much better off.
 
Why is it okay for Pornstars to get paid for having sex but its not okay for prostitutes? Just something I've always wondered.

Well it can be traced somewhat to the White Slave Traffic Act of 1910 (Mann Act) which was an attempt partly to prevent exploitation of white women and primarily lay the framework for harassing and charging with crimes black men for consorting with white women as the first person and target of the statute was Heavyweight Boxer Jack Johnson. :2 cents:

Long and short....an element racism and Puritanism.
 
It's funny how people still believe that applies even though it does not appear in any single legal document produced by the Founding Fathers.

:cool:

The first Amendment of the US Constitution says hi.
 
Just because the specific words "separation of church and state" do not appear in the Constitution doesn't mean that it is not represented.

Like Shayd stated, just read the 1st Amendment.

It is clear that the Constitution was heavily influenced by a religious ethic but the founding fathers were very careful to not promote a specific religion. Many people mistakenly believe that the Constitution was founded in Christian principles. The fact is that the Judeo-Christian ethic (which many religions share) influences the Constitution.

The founding fathers have very specifically stated that the US was not founded as a Christian nation (John Adams, 1797, Treaty of Tripoli).
 
Just because the specific words "separation of church and state" do not appear in the Constitution doesn't mean that it is not represented.

Like Shayd stated, just read the 1st Amendment.

It is clear that the Constitution was heavily influenced by a religious ethic but the founding fathers were very careful to not promote a specific religion. Many people mistakenly believe that the Constitution was founded in Christian principles. The fact is that the Judeo-Christian ethic (which many religions share) influences the Constitution.

The founding fathers have very specifically stated that the US was not founded as a Christian nation (John Adams, 1797, Treaty of Tripoli).

I was watching a great program last night (it was a repeat I enjoyed 1st time) on PBS about the famous case in Dover ,PA where some religious types tried to bring back creationism vs Darwin repackaged as Intelligent design.Creationists lost the case badly and in fact faced perjury charges lol.
Part of that went over the 1st amendment and whats called the "establishment clause" regarding religion.It does mean there is suppose to be a separation of church and state as it says congress (and that means all govt at all levels) is prohibited from making any law that establishes (promotes) any religion.Means govt is suppose to stay clear of religion eithier way,don't promote it and don't discriminate against it,people can have all the churches and religion they want just not govt ones or religion in govt.Creationism is an example of promoting religion so was deemed unconstitutional to be taught in schools.
 
i would say that pornstars most of the time have or a good body or a beautiful face ( or both) and prostitutes don't always have that. that is the big difference between them and that is why pornstars get payed more.
 
Why is it okay for Pornstars to get paid for having sex but its not okay for prostitutes? Just something I've always wondered.

Not an issue.

Just make sure to film all the sexy encounters you have with prostitutes (or have a professional painter present).
That way it is always art. :frenchman :glugglug:

Problem solved. ;)
 
Because the movie calls for sex even though it's not a Blockbuster it's still a movie. Like sex scenes in movies except it's all 1 sex scene.
 
It is OK for prostitutes! As long as they have freely chosen to be a prostitute & as long as they keep their earnings rather than give it to a pimp.

Some chicks prefer "pimps". In a classical sense the function a "pimp" performs is in many respects the same as would a manager or agent. Some people (including some prostitutes) would like just to perform and not worry about the business end of it or managing their finances.

I think a production company counts as a third party. If John Doe pays to have sex, that's prostitution. If John Doe Productions pays both John Doe and Jane Doe to have sex in front of a camera, that's porn.



Don't think so bud.It would be very hard for Rodney Moore to try to argue that Rodney moore productions was not him.And think about this as well in the case of prostitutes,in the case of girls who have pimps it's the pimp who gets paid and sometimes doesn't share much with the girl or doesn't share at all.Its still prostitution and all parties could be charged.

Beleive me porn is considered art and is protected and that is the difference legally.

I would say you're both correct. Certainly Peter North is the principle of his porn enterprise and through it he pays other performers while he likely has some salaried arrangement. So in the case where he produces a scene for his company featuring himself and some other person, North through his DBA pays the actress(es). His company paying her is certainly a legal distinction from him paying her directly.

Now just because someone uses a company check to pay some chick for a sex act doesn't shield them from prostitution charges nor does claiming it is art will. What the law goes by in most US jurisdictions is whether or not you have the proper permission to create the work and have paid the necessary fees. Once you've done that, you can call it whatever you want....including "prostitution".

But as I said before, the legal framework for making prostitution illegal was the "White-Slave Traffic Act" of 1910 (aka Mann Act). In practice it was used simply to selectively prosecute...
 
Some clarification on the legal angles and differences between the two.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/08/12/colb.pornography/index.html

(FindLaw) -- Jenny Paulino stands accused of running a prostitution ring on the Upper East Side of Manhattan.

Among other defense arguments, Paulino moved to dismiss the case on Equal Protection grounds. She claimed that the Manhattan District Attorney's office selectively targets "escort services" for prosecution, while ignoring distributors of adult films, who are engaged in what is essentially the same activity.

Justice Budd G. Goodman recently issued a ruling rejecting Paulino's claim, on the ground that pornography does not qualify as prostitution under the relevant New York statute.

"Prostitution," said Justice Goodman, "is and has always been intuitively defined as a bilateral exchange between a prostitute and a client." Therefore, the judge explained, the district attorney's office has not ignored one form of prostitution and pursued another, within the meaning of the law.

Though the Equal Protection argument may be weak as a matter of statutory interpretation, the distinction between prostitution and pornography is not nearly as clear as Justice Goodman suggests.

What is prostitution legally?
Most of us typically think of prostitution as involving a customer who pays a prostitute for providing sexual services. We intuit that pornography, by contrast, involves a customer paying an actor for providing sexual services to another actor.

In other words, prostitution is generally understood as the bilateral trading of sex for money, while pornography involves the customer of an adult film paying money to watch other people have sex with each other, while receiving no sexual favors himself in return.

In keeping with this distinction, notes Justice Goodman, "the pornographic motion picture industry has flourished without prosecution since its infancy."

Justice Goodman may be correct about the statute in question, although the statutory language does not help his position.

New York Penal Law defines a prostitute as a person "who engages or agrees or offers to engage in sexual conduct with another person in return for a fee." A pornographic actor does just that: Like a more typical prostitute, he or she engages in sex in return for a fee.

Still, as Justice Goodman points out, traditional interpretations of the word "prostitute" narrow the literal definition to exempt pornography.

But that leads to another question: Does the pornography exemption make sense?

Stated differently, the District Attorney's office has perhaps correctly divined the legislative intent behind the statute at issue, but there might nonetheless be something fundamentally unfair about exempting distributors of nonobscene pornography from the vice laws.

To appreciate the unfairness, let us examine some of the arguments for this distinction.

Distinctions
Most distributors of pornography would express shock at the prospect of being prosecuted for promoting prostitution. Under Miller v. California, as long as a work, taken as a whole, has "serious literary, artistic, political, or scientific value," the First Amendment protects its distribution. Given this legal principle, how could pornography be criminal, in the way that prostitution is?

The process of filming and distributing pornography is considered protected speech, under the Supreme Court's First Amendment precedents. However, the First Amendment does not insulate the commission of crime from prosecution just because someone with a camera records the crime and intends to sell that recording to customers.

In keeping with this portrayal, one could reasonably characterize pornography as the payment of prostitutes for having sex in front of a camera. Though the film itself might be protected by the First Amendment, it could constitute evidence of paid-for sexual encounters -- that is, evidence of prostitution -- if a statute were designed to extend to that sort of prostitution.

For clarification, let us take an example from another area of criminal law. Doug the drug-dealer sells Carl the customer eight ounces of marijuana. Both Doug and Carl are guilty of (different) criminal acts for having engaged in this illicit transaction. Assume that there is an audience for such transactions on reality television (all rights reserved). In anticipation of this audience, Fiona the filmmaker pays Doug and Carl to permit her to tape them carrying out their business.

Has Fiona done anything illegal? No, but neither has her First-Amendment-protected act of filming and distributing her recording altered the illegal character of Doug's and Carl's conduct. Doug and Carl may still be prosecuted for engaging in a drug transaction, despite the fact that Fiona may not be prosecuted for taping it or showing the tape.

Fiona's tape may be subpoenaed and used by the district attorney's office as evidence of the drug transactions charged against Doug and Carl.

Differences in filming
To be sure, there are some differences between Fiona and the pornography distributor, which might translate into differences between pornographic actors, on the one hand, and Doug and Carl, on the other.

In our example, Doug and Carl have engaged in a drug transaction, and the only element that Fiona has added to the mix is her filming of that transaction. In the case of pornography, however, the actors having sex are doing so precisely because they are being filmed. The taping, in other words, is not just "evidence" of their having sex; it is the entire point of that sex. In pornography, then, the recording is an integral, rather than a peripheral, part of the transaction.

What this means is that unlike Doug and Carl, the people who have sex for the camera are actors, and acting -- unlike drug-dealing or prostitution -- is part of what falls within the protection of the First Amendment.

A better analogy to pornography might therefore be a film-maker paying Doug and Carl to act as though they are dealing drugs for the camera when in fact they are not. In such a case, of course, there would be no grounds for prosecuting the two men.

Does distinction work?
The distinction between pornography and prostitution is not, however, quite so straightforward as the latter analogy suggests. A couple having actual sex for the camera -- let's call the people Jason and June -- is different from Doug and Carl pretending to deal drugs. Doug and Carl really are just acting, but having intercourse is not just acting -- it is also bona fide sex.

That is what distinguishes a pornographic film from a film in which people pretend that they're having sex when they are not. In that sense, the reality TV example of Doug and Carl may be more like adult film than it initially appeared to be. Doug and Carl truly are dealing drugs and there is also filming going on, just as Jason and June really are having sex and there is also filming going on.

Law's point of view
But why should the distinction between pretending to have sex, and actually having it, make a difference, from a legal standpoint?

The sex act is a legally significant event. If it occurs without consent, it is rape. If it takes place between a married person and a third party, it is adultery. If it occurs and leads to the birth of a child, then the man is legally responsible for that child until the age of 18. And if it happens in exchange for a fee, then it is prostitution.

Pretending to have sex, however, for a camera or in private, triggers none of these legal consequences and can therefore be characterized as mere acting.

Who is paying whom?
When pornography is correctly understood as involving real sex, the question in comparing pornography to prostitution becomes whether who is paying whom matters (or should matter) to the law. That is, should it make a difference whether Jason pays June to have sex with Jason or whether, instead, Filmore (the filmmaker) pays June to have sex with Jason?

If these two scenarios seem functionally equivalent, then there may be something seriously wrong with our laws.

Consider the following example. Jason has just turned 21, and he is a virgin. His uncle Lecher believes that Jason should have some experience with sex before he finishes college, so Lecher pays June (a family friend) to have sex with Jason. Jason happily accepts this gift, and June carries out her side of the deal.

It does seem that in this example, prostitution has taken place. The payor may not be the same person as the recipient of sexual services, but so what?

Why court protects adult movies
It's almost certain that on its current precedents, the U.S. Supreme Court would hold that garden-variety pornographic actors are indeed engaged in First-Amendment-protected activity, so long as obscenity is not involved. Odd as it may seem, what appears finally to make all of the difference is the mode of gratification for the person who is paying but not himself seeking money.

The ultimate demand for pornography comes from the viewer of pornography, and what excites him is the watching of the adult film, rather than any physical act performed on him by another person. The "enjoyment" of pornography is therefore as "speech," rather than as action.

Though real sex occurred in the making of the pornographic film, this fact is only relevant insofar as it is known (or believed) by the viewer. If, for example, the entire film were created with highly realistic computer graphics, but the viewer believed that what he saw was real, then he would enjoy the material just as much.

Because the impact of pornography occurs through the mediation of an audience witnessing a performance, rather than an audience receiving physical services from a performer, pornography and its making qualify as First-Amendment protected speech.

Does this make sense? Consider again the significance of the sexual act: legal consequences can follow from it and it can, accordingly, be regulated by the law in a variety of ways. Though two people may very much want to have sex with each other in private, the law can intervene to say that they cannot, just because one of them seeks money and the other gratification, for example.

If, however, both members of the couple are in it for the money, and there is a man with a camera taping them, then the sex is insulated by the Constitution from legal regulation.

That is in fact the law, but Jenny Paulino can hardly be faulted for calling it arbitrary."
 
Some clarification on the legal angles and differences between the two.

The only thing clear to me is Justice Goodman is a terrible jurist, moron and probably an activist Judge based on his opinion is this ruling.

"Prostitution," said Justice Goodman, "is and has always been intuitively defined as a bilateral exchange between a prostitute and a client." Therefore, the judge explained, the district attorney's office has not ignored one form of prostitution and pursued another, within the meaning of the law.
Huh!?!?? There is a place people can go and officially register as a legally defined prostitute now??? How in the world do you establish a person is a prostitute in a case without first appraising the act?? The guy is really bending over backwards and straining to form an opinion where the facts would appear to be against him.

Prostitution is any agreement exchanging money for sex. Obviously such a definition does jeopardize the distinction between prostitution and porn which would seem to complicate this Justice's ability to find against the defendant IMO.

Though the Equal Protection argument may be weak as a matter of statutory interpretation, the distinction between prostitution and pornography is not nearly as clear as Justice Goodman suggests.

What is prostitution legally?
Most of us typically think of prostitution as involving a customer who pays a prostitute for providing sexual services. We intuit that pornography, by contrast, involves a customer paying an actor for providing sexual services to another actor.

In other words, prostitution is generally understood as the bilateral trading of sex for money, while pornography involves the customer of an adult film paying money to watch other people have sex with each other, while receiving no sexual favors himself in return.

While the "Equal Protection Clause" is a fairly flimsy argument the Justice makes a fairly absurd claim in asserting his distinction. If an act were promoted and customers paid an upfront fee then the act was performed with the participants then receiving a portion of the proceeds that would be an example of the customer paying to watch. Of course that is the rare case in porn but the Justice also presupposes the production will ever see the light of day let alone be paid for by a customer.
In keeping with this distinction, notes Justice Goodman, "the pornographic motion picture industry has flourished without prosecution since its infancy."

Justice Goodman may be correct about the statute in question, although the statutory language does not help his position.

New York Penal Law defines a prostitute as a person "who engages or agrees or offers to engage in sexual conduct with another person in return for a fee." A pornographic actor does just that: Like a more typical prostitute, he or she engages in sex in return for a fee.

EXACTLY!!
Still, as Justice Goodman points out, traditional interpretations of the word "prostitute" narrow the literal definition to exempt pornography.

But that leads to another question: Does the pornography exemption make sense?

Stated differently, the District Attorney's office has perhaps correctly divined the legislative intent behind the statute at issue, but there might nonetheless be something fundamentally unfair about exempting distributors of nonobscene pornography from the vice laws.

That is in fact the law, but Jenny Paulino can hardly be faulted for calling it arbitrary."

Can you say "judicial activism"? This is the kind of activism that would even make Antonin Scalia blush IMO.
 

habo9

Banned
I think it depends on who you ask... IMHO prostitutes deserve as much respect as pornstars, who in turn deserve as much respect as actors, singers, writers, etc...;)


B.U.L.L.S.H.I.T all there doing is having sex on camera or having sex for money , everyone can have sex on camera or money , you dont need no talent for that , what a mental answer :thumbsup:
 
Short answer. Porn is legal, hooking is not.

We understand that. The question is if "hooking" is merely taking money in exchange for sex, why is porn legal but "hooking" not? Or vice versa.
 
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