Pornstars and Abuse

[plucap]

I wrote this in another thread I believe.
I think that just as there are different people in every profession, porn stars can't be generalized either.
There are some girls I think it's quite apparent in though. Jenna Jameson is a good example. She never seems to enjoy porn and often look high as a skyscraper in her scenes. There's no sense of joy in them, which is partly why I don't like her work.

On the other hand there seems to be a lot of women enjoying their lives. Gianna Michaels is the archetype of a happy porn star if you ask me. She's not plasticized to the extreme and she always appear very vital and happy. Major turn on to me at least.
And then there are some who just seem to be nymphomaniacs and are very horny. Nothing wrong with that.

But saying every porn star is traumatized and this is that is just bullshit. I do believe it's much more common amongst porn stars than in general though, just as bulimia is more frequent in the modeling business.

 

[xxaru]

Yes, I'm singling out women here. However, I will acknowledge that males are sometimes the targets of degrading sexual treatment, etc. at the hands of females (or even other men). That is probably much less common, though.

There are tons of videos that are degrading to both men and women out there. It doesn't have to be just the sexual acts that degrade, but how the scene/video is portrayed. There are plenty of videos that get made all the time where the sexual acts are fine, but the girl and/or the guy gets portrayed in a degrading way. Prime examples that come to mind are nearly all of the interracial videos out there.

 

[Blink]

There are tons of videos that are degrading to both men and women out there. It doesn't have to be just the sexual acts that degrade, but how the scene/video is portrayed. There are plenty of videos that get made all the time where the sexual acts are fine, but the girl and/or the guy gets portrayed in a degrading way.

I was thinking about degrading sexual acts. At least in hardcore porn, most of those seem to be focused on making women appear subservient and/or perverted. I usually ignore both plots and personalities (simulated or not); almost everything that I watch is gonzo and it's muted most of the time.

Prime examples that come to mind are nearly all of the interracial videos out there.

I won't deny that racism is a problem. That has deeper roots in society, though. It may be on the rise recently, but then, so are plenty of other undesirables.

Attacking racism in porn is certainly the wrong approach; free speech ensures that degradation and objectification will remain with us until the deeper issues are addressed. The alternative is censorship, and the elimination of any particular kind of degradation is not worth the inevitable backlash. The problem will most likely worsen. The same thing goes for objectification (which may include fetishism).

Abuse (harm) is another matter entirely. That needs to be addressed in a big way, and soon.

 

[xxaru]

Abuse (harm) is another matter entirely. That needs to be addressed in a big way, and soon.

I don't think you can separate the two (abuse and degradation) like that because they go hand in hand in porn. Most videos that you would consider abusive (harmful) are mearly portrayed as such because the woman often times is never abused at all. It's usually played up all for the camera (for effect). But when someone watches that video, it comes across as abusive and I can understand why you'd want to stop that. But to stop that, we need to put a stop to how these videos are being portrayed, not just the actions that take place in them. Case in point, I could make a video with choking, spitting, rough anal sex, etc. (the same type of stuff that you would consider abusive in one film), and film it in such a way that it doesn't come across as abusive. So it's not just about the acts themselves, it's also about how the directors portray these acts.

 

[Pathogen]

http://www.hbo.com/docs/programs/katiemorgan/index.html

Katie Morgan does it because she loves sex and needed to pay off debt.

 

[Blink]

I don't think you can separate the two (abuse and degradation) like that because they go hand in hand in porn.

Perhaps I'm being overly technical here, but consult the dictionary definitions of abuse and degradation. They are separate things. No degrading act is harmful, however distasteful it might be. Abuse, OTOH, is harmful.

Most videos that you would consider abusive (harmful) are mearly portrayed as such because the woman often times is never abused at all.

... Have you forgotten what we talked about in this thread already? Rough anal sex and extreme anal insertions in porn are abusive (i.e. harmful).

See this post for some background and these posts for evidence that pornstars are experiencing problems.

 

[xxaru]

Perhaps I'm being overly technical here, but consult the dictionary definitions of abuse and degradation. They are separate things. No degrading act is harmful, however distasteful it might be. Abuse, OTOH, is harmful.

That’s your opinion. And I’m not trying to say the terms have the same meaning. Yes, they are different terms, but in porn abuse and degradation almost always accompany one another. When have you seen a porno that is abusive, yet not degrading?

... Have you forgotten what we talked about in this thread already? Rough anal sex and extreme anal insertions in porn are abusive (i.e. harmful).

You’re jumping the gun here. It is still up for debate whether these acts are harmful, and (if so) to the extent they are. I thought we agreed on that already in the previous thread.

 

[Facial_King]

It's hard to discuss this openly and honestly because I think most people - including porn stars and people who consume porn - are operating on a policy whose primary mission is avoidance of feeling wrong and/or guilty about anything.

Like this - knowing that girls in porn do porn at least in part because of some current or past abuse would make me feel bad for watching porn and promoting an industry that maintains such negative and harmful relationships. Therefore, because I really enjoy watching porn and getting off with it (sexually or otherwise), I think it must not be true about the abuse, because it's critical that I not feel bad, guilty, ashamed, or complicit in something so wrong as that....

The reality must shift to make us feel okay about ourselves.

 

[Blink]

That’s your opinion. And I’m not trying to say the terms have the same meaning. Yes, they are different terms, but in porn abuse and degradation almost always accompany one another.

That's true, but my major point is that they are separate concepts.

You’re jumping the gun here. It is still up for debate whether these acts are harmful, and (if so) to the extent they are. I thought we agreed on that already in the previous thread.

We came to no such agreement about whether they are harmful. I think it's been fairly well established that both rough anal sex and extreme anal insertions are harmful. Period. The main concerns being significant friction and radial pressure, the effects of those on the delicate rectal lining (whether that's referring to the single cellular layer of epithelium or the entire mucosa), and hazardous lubricants.

The extent to which the aforementioned acts are harmful is still debatable, though. It's safe to say that physical trauma will always occur, but not so safe to predict what symptoms might manifest as a result. I also have yet to see any studies pertaining to cumulative effects of trauma (building up over time).

 

[calpoon]

I see your thinking here, blink, but I think that it's all matter of motivation. psychical trauma in itself is not abuse, because we all do things that are hurtful to us. But the intention isn't to harm, it's just that whatever the perceived benefit is outweighs the potential risk.

I do think that degradation is a form of abuse, but a different form. it's not a physical form, but I've said before, and most will agree that emotional and psychological abuse is just as traumatizing, if not moreso.

 

[Blink]

I see your thinking here, blink, but I think that it's all matter of motivation.

Motivation or intention is not relevant. Whether harm is brought about through ignorance, malice, or whatever, the end result is the same.

psychical trauma in itself is not abuse, because we all do things that are hurtful to us.

Damage, harm, and abuse (verb forms) are all synonymous according to various Thesauruses. Let's not get into a battle over semantics.

But the intention isn't to harm, it's just that whatever the perceived benefit is outweighs the potential risk.

People can't make informed choices when they're not aware of the risks. As I've said before, the medical community isn't putting enough effort into educating people.

 

[xxaru]

People can't make informed choices when they're not aware of the risks. As I've said before, the medical community isn't putting enough effort into educating people.

Educating who? As far as I know, the medical community has never advocated things like anal sex. And I don't believe people are having as much anal sex (nor as rough anal sex) as is portrayed in porn videos. So should the medical community be educating the pornstars?

Anybody who does porn should already be well aware of the dangers they face. You know that with certain jobs come certain risks. And porn is a job that has risks; there's no doubt about that. I don't know what it is that you want the medical community to do. :dunno:

 

[calpoon]

Motivation or intention is not relevant.

I really disagree. I didn't say we should ignore the consequences. On the other hand, ignoring the motivations for actions will not help to mitigate bad consequences from arising. It will do the opposite, IMO.

Damage, harm, and abuse (verb forms) are all synonymous according to various Thesauruses. Let's not get into a battle over semantics.

and you said that degradation is not abuse, so I think we are having an argument over semantics here.

 

[Blink]

Educating who? As far as I know, the medical community has never advocated things like anal sex.

They don't need to advocate it. They need to educate everyone (pornstars included) about the risks. Regulation might be required to make that happen (as was the case with smoking), and I won't oppose that.

And I don't believe people are having as much anal sex (nor as rough anal sex) as is portrayed in porn videos.

I won't go dig up even more anecdotes about problems (there are plenty out there). I'll just paste this quote from my sig link instead:
"Studies report that up to 43% of adult women have participated in anal intercourse... The incidence of acute sexually transmitted rectal and gastrointestinal syndromes is increasing." (Chapter 9 of Current Diagnosis & Treatment of Sexually Transmitted Diseases, 1st Edition [Published April 16, 2007].)

and you said that degradation is not abuse, so I think we are having an argument over semantics here.

No, I said that they're separate concepts. You're the one who initially made the distinction, remember?

I think we can all agree that degrading acts, abusive acts, and objectification are all undesirable. However, I personally am only concerned about physical acts that cause significant physical damage at this time. Clear enough?

 

[Member010]

Bump

 

[EMP777]

Bump

Again.

I registered here, and on some other boards, especially for this kind of topic.

I admit to watching porn from time to time. But the more I hear of pornstars quitting the biz, and explaining why, the more I struggle with it still being ok for me to watch it.
And when I watch stuff like the Belladonna video on youtube (link below), i get disgusted and I just wanna throw up. I feel so sorry for her and everyone else in similar situations.

I mean, I don't pay for the material I've watched, so I don't support the industry. But by watching it, I still make the statement that it's OK. And it's not. It's anything but.

If you're wondering what exactly makes me think this way, it's partly from reading Jenna's book, and Hyapatia Lee's book.
Especially the latter tells of a lot of drugs and suicides in the industry. Also STDs.

Then it's Shelley Lubben's statements about how horrible the industry is, how it's ridden with STDs, drugs and abused people.
They all seem to paint exactly the same picture.

Examples of pornstars who talk bad about the industry (youtube links):

Belladonna (note especially the part at about 3 minutes in where she's in a prison doing a 12 guy gangbang. She says it was like being thrown in a cage with hungry lions. She was forced to do things nobody would like to do, and she cried afterwards. In part 2 she speaks of wanting to take her life, and not wanting to do this anymore.)

Another example:
Jersey Jaxin

Then it's things like Gauge drinking so much at a strip club that she almost died. Does a healthy happy person really do something like that? I know I don't... and nobody else that I know personally either.

And the people on this forum that says "some girls just like sex that much". Come on, get real. Being on a porn set isn't like having sex with your girlfriend/boyfriend. It's uncomfortable, they stop you all the time to take pictures, and sometimes you're bleeding, you've got body fluids all over the place... it's just nasty. And guys shoot needles in their dicks to stay hard... it's more widespread than you think. (caverject if you need to know)

No.... I've definitely made up my mind, and porn is BAD. It shouldn't exist. People should treat each other with love and respect. Sex should be about 2 (or more) people enjoying each other, in love and or in lust. That's it.

I know that before I started watching porn, I didn't think about facials, deepthroating, anal (I'm still disgusted by IRL) and other stuff like that. No, I got off just by looking in a clothing catalog.

When I first started watching porn, I remember actually thinking when seeing a girl gag on a cock, that, "she really can't like doing that.. that's horrible". But as time went by, I got desensitized.
And you know what? I think I was right. It is horrible. She didn't enjoy it.

I could go on, but what's the point. But that's my view of all this. Comments?

EDIT: You are NOT allowed to post "uploaded" content from sites like YouTube, IronBabes and such. (Even if you did not upload it yourself.). Links deleted.

 

[Evil]

Yeah I know, but I'm addicted to porn.

 

[Blink]

No.... I've definitely made up my mind, and porn is BAD. It shouldn't exist. People should treat each other with love and respect. Sex should be about 2 (or more) people enjoying each other, in love and or in lust. That's it.

The current porn industry is "bad" right now, but that doesn't mean it always will be. Given all of the corruption in our society, it shouldn't be surprising that the porn industry and porn content itself mirrors that.

Porn should exist. I certainly don't want to see something that I enjoy go away or be censored, although I do want to see major improvements. I'm not sure what the best means are to that end, though. I'm thinking government intervention and education both, probably with the former enforcing the latter. Of course, the current government intervention (obscenity prosecution) is entirely wrongheaded, and as for education... that's currently a lost cause.

Don't give up hope so easily. A lot of people are getting fed up with the way things are, and sooner or later positive changes must come about... Although that may be contingent upon similar changes in other areas of society first...

 

[Marlo Manson]

I don't think the majority of pornstars are abused or sexually assaulted / victimized!

I do think allot of girls have had the terrible horror stories and rotten life experiences, I don't know for certain the percentages or the number of girls that have had those nightmarish experiences?

IMO the majority of girls who do porn are just girls trying to get paid fast, prolly cuz some think sex is fun, some genuinely love sex, some deal with it purely for the $$$, and some do it cuz its easy good $$$ and then some do it for any or all of the reasons mentioned above!!! :dunno:

I think women become Exotic XXX dancers / pornstars for the same reason guys sell drugs / and commit high paying criminal acts if they don't like working or the guys who try to live the fast life.. and I think for the most part girls don't do that hard stuff guys do..

Cuz its easier and I think although dangerous as well, the girls are somewhat safer dancing / or becoming a starlet I am sure they can and do risk violence, abuse, disease, and other unsafe situations but I think its less risk then the types of unlawful enterprise / bidness men do to make the ridiculous amounts of $$$ thats NOT legitimate!

So I think the enticement of dancing or becoming a pornstar enables women to have and somewhat live a similar lavish "PAID" life style like that of the guys who are doing really dangerous stuff to make their $$$ the easy way! BTW. these are strictly my opinions, and thoughts! no official research was done :2 cents::hatsoff:

 

[Blink]

I don't think the majority of pornstars are abused or sexually assaulted / victimized!

I disagree -- but there's no point arguing either way since there don't seem to be any reliable statistics showing how many female pornstars were abused and when (before entering the industry and/or within it after joining). I still can't find any online reference for Drew Pinsky's purported claim that this thread started with, either.