Well, it's hard to really draw comparisons with the U.S. as there are too many demographic variables to consider. It would be like trying to compare in some cases a state like Montana to a state like New York. Violence and crime is up or down in places for different reasons. You can't really compare a country like France with a total population of about 60 million to the U.S. when we have states with over 30 million people...
Outlawing guns in the US ...
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Well, it's hard to really draw comparisons with the U.S. as there are too many demographic variables to consider. It would be like trying to compare in some cases a state like Montana to a state like New York. Violence and crime is up or down in places for different reasons. You can't really compare a country like France with a total population of about 60 million to the U.S. when we have states with over 30 million people...
Virtually every gun ban in every major, metropolitan area has shown otherwise. The DC Gun Ban Law was regularly chastized because it outlawed private gun ownership in the home, and absolutely did nothing to curb violent gun crimes.
The assault weapon statistics are even more interesting. The overwhelming majority is not merely illegal ownership, but actual, illegal import by organized crime.
And, finally, if you start looking at general, violent crime statistics of the US v. Europe -- removing guns from the equation -- we're pretty damn violent in comparison. You've been aligning yourself with the left a little too much.
I know you reguritate the entire left political line and never vary from it (whereas I regularly vary from the right, and even a few Libertarian at times). But this is one area that is so obvious. If you outlaw gun ownership in the US, all you do is outlaw legal, law abiding citizens from getting them.
Even more so, the assault weapon statistics have absolutely spiked over the last few years in the southwest. Several leftists have tried to blame that on the sunset of the 1994 ban, but the origin of the assault weapons are the true tale. They aren't even being sold in the US, but being imported illegally into the US.
I.e., the US is typically several times (not just double or even just only triple) the violent crime rate of most European nations. And yet, "any weapon" is used in less than half of them, and drop to a quarter or less when it comes to actual discharge. In fact, the highest rate of "any weapon" usage is a robbery with "show and not use/discharge."
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/cvict_c.htm#weapon
The full report has even more, good info (I'm still looking for the absolute "raw data" myself):
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/pdf/cv05.pdf
So let's say you remove guns.
Let's even make the utterly false statement that the lack of legal gun ownership stops all criminals from not only getting any weapon, but even from considering instigating a violent crime at all.
It wouldn't even cut robbery in half, let alone there's a strong argument many would find something else.
And then when it actually comes to harming someone, it would only drop a quarter of the actual, violent crimes as the supermajority of harmful crimes are not with firearms at all.
About the only thing that would drop significantly would be homocide, where the US leads by an order of magnitude over any one any way.
The US is extremely more violent than any country in Europe. Portugal is regularly cited as being closest (and still very far away), although some consider it not the same as, say, UK, France, Germany, which would be more on-par with the US standard of living.
It was a Sendra/Olympic Arms manufactured AR-15 rifle.
He was found guilty after the ATF railroaded him to prison by getting a crooked judge to block exculpatory evidence from being presented.
His name is David Olofsen, and he is currently appealing his case.
Alright let me explain something to the crowd that wants to ban semi-automatic rifles.
This is my AKM-47:
It fires a 7.62x39mm cartridge.
Q: What makes this rifle more deadly than any other?
A: Nothing, in fact this rifle is about as powerful as a lever-action .30-30 rifle.
Q: Can you just hold down the trigger and have it keep firing?
A: No, this fires one shot per squeeze of the trigger, as do all semi-auto rifles.
Q: How does it differ from the standard Russian military AK?
A: This specific one is chambered for 7.62 (old caliber used by Russia) rather than the newer 5.45x39mm cartridge. Also it fires semi-automatic only and has a different trigger assembly, and lacks a 2nd sear pin and sear.
Q: How easy would it be to convert to full-auto?
A: With the right tooling and skill, fairly easy. HOWEVER, I would recommend against it as doing so would insure that you would lose your anal virginity to a man named bubba.
Q: Why would anyone want this kind of rifle?
A: Because Russian ammo is cheap, the rifle is easy to repair, the rifle has a historic aspect to it, the rifle can be fairly accurate with practice.
This is my AKM-47:
It fires a 7.62x39mm cartridge.
Q: What makes this rifle more deadly than any other?
A: Nothing, in fact this rifle is about as powerful as a lever-action .30-30 rifle.
Q: Can you just hold down the trigger and have it keep firing?
A: No, this fires one shot per squeeze of the trigger, as do all semi-auto rifles.
Q: How does it differ from the standard Russian military AK?
A: This specific one is chambered for 7.62 (old caliber used by Russia) rather than the newer 5.45x39mm cartridge. Also it fires semi-automatic only and has a different trigger assembly, and lacks a 2nd sear pin and sear.
Q: How easy would it be to convert to full-auto?
A: With the right tooling and skill, fairly easy. HOWEVER, I would recommend against it as doing so would insure that you would lose your anal virginity to a man named bubba.
Q: Why would anyone want this kind of rifle?
A: Because Russian ammo is cheap, the rifle is easy to repair, the rifle has a historic aspect to it, the rifle can be fairly accurate with practice.
1. It is pretty easy to kill with knives, piano wire, bombs, or a car.
2. The right to bear arms is guarenteed by the constitution, you might as well revoke the 1st amendment while you are at it because "no one needs to swear or watch porn".
3. Which European countries?
England is having a massive wave of gun crime involving everything up to Submachine Guns.
Everyone in Switzerland owns a gun, and there is a very small rate of violent crime.
4. These awesome countries had gun control:
Germany: Registration founded 1938 by Adolf Hitler
Soviet Russia: Stringent control came about under V.I. Lenin
China: Death Penalty for having firearms
Cambodia and Laos: Pol Pot ring a bell?
Cuba
Iraq: Only Baath party members were allowed military type rifles
Iran: Look at the peaceful protests!
5. Countries that allow guns such as handguns and/or semi-automatic rifles:
USA- Anything up to full-auto- Violent Crime Rate: Medium-Low
Switzerland- Anything up to full-auto- - Violent Crime Rate: Very Low
Czech Republic- Can get full-auto with strict licensing- - Violent Crime Rate: N/A
Russian Federation- Anything up to semi-automatic rifles- Violent Crime Rate: Medium
Poland- Anything up to semi-automatic rifles- Violent Crime Rate: N/A
Bulgaria- Anything up to semi-automatic rifles- Violent Crime Rate: N/A
Ukraine- Anything up to semi-automatic rifles- Violent Crime Rate: N/A
France- Anything up to semi-automatic rifles- Violent Crime Rate: Low
Germany-Anything up to semi-automatic rifles- Violent Crime Rate: Low
Italy- Anything up to semi-automatic rifles- Violent Crime Rate: Low
New Zealand- Anything up to full-auto- Violent Crime Rate: Low
Dominican Republic- Anything up to full-auto- Violent Crime Rate: Medium
Mexico- Non-military ammuniton firearms only- Violent Crime Rate: High
Finland- Anything up to full-auto-Violent Crime Rate: Low
Norway- Anything up to semi-automatic rifles- Violent Crime Rate: Low
Brazil-Handguns and manually operated long guns- Violent Crime Rate: High
Argentina
Canada
India- Non-military ammunition firearms only- Violent Crime Rate: N/A
Iraq-One AK per household- Violent Crime Rate: High
Mr. Daystar
In a bell tower, watching you through cross hairs.
Actually, it's not. A .30-30 at least has some use over 100yards, where as a 7.62x39 really serves no decent long range purpose, and is best suited to short range combat.
They really aren't that easy. That's sort of a misconception about semi autos. It can be done, but you have to have some machine shop skills, and certain tools. Also, if you convert a firearm, you will end up in a Federal prison. Those are much safer then state facilities, where you would likely get used as a prison bitch.
Ak's aren't really accurate after 100 yards. The 7.62x39 drops fast, and looses power.
But they are fun to shoot.
you don't have the same class of assholes that the US is blessed with.
Yes we do but we call them politicians and they make their living by fiddling their expenses.
busenbust
^^^^
"Should the US Federal Constitution's Second Amendment be overturned?"
^^No. :nono:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0B_UZNtEk4
^^No. :nono:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0B_UZNtEk4
Actually it's not that easy to kill in this way , you have to get close and the victim might have other ideas.Also it requires a degree of premeditation and many gun crimes occur on the spur of the moment because a gun is handy.
England is having a massive wave of gun crime?
Home Office statistics for homicide by firearms;
2005/6 50 deaths
2006/7 59 deaths
2008/9 53 deaths
These figures are for England and Wales.
http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs09/hosb0209.pdf
There aren't a lot of shootings but they have become widely reported - a gun death is so unusual it gets onto the national news.
Actual firearms offence statistics are a muddle because they include cases when witnesses "think" they saw a firearm or even when the criminal says he is armed but no gun was seen.Replica guns,air weapons,mace canisters etc are all covered under firearms legislation.So I've only dealt with deaths through non accidental discharge of firearms.
Rey C.
Racing is life... anything else is just waiting.
Both are medium range cartridges. Neither is good for longer range shooting.
Just quickly comparing typical commercial ammo (125 grain 30-30 vs. 123 grain 7.62x39mm), both fall on their faces at 300 yards (-9.9" vs -15.3" for the 7.62). The 7.62mm falls off worse, but the fall off of the 30-30 is the reason that no real hunter would select a 30-30 to hunt a cornfield if there's a .270 at his disposal. At 300 yards, the energy from 30-30 is 301ft-lbs, for the 7.62 it's 559ft-lbs. So the 7.62 will give you a good deal more punch, but less accuracy, at 300 yards. So no one I know who hunts would take a 30-30, an AK or an SKS for anything but brush or short range deer hunting. One of the more common places to find the 30-30 or the 7.62x39mm these days is in Encore pistol series. And with even a scoped pistol, you're likely not going to take a shot outside of 75 yards - which is pretty appropriate for both the 30-30 and the 7.62x39mm, IMO. These days, .270's, .243's, 7mm Mags and the like take care of things until the big boys come out to play (.300's +).
http://www.gunsandammomag.com/cs/Satellite/IMO_GA/Chart_C/AMMUNITION+BALLISTICS+FOR+.30-.30+Winchester
http://www.rifleshootermag.com/ballistics/762_39mm_russian.html
But all that said, to be honest, I dismiss the sporting characteristics of firearms when discussing their "social appropriatness". The 2nd Amendment has nothing to do with firing up Bambi, Thumper or Tom Turkey. Don't get me wrong, I think 30-30's are fine for what they are. But if I was restricted to one firearm for the rest of my life, I'd pick up my AK and not look back.
Mr. Daystar
In a bell tower, watching you through cross hairs.
Personally, I don't like either. I was simply stating that, at least you can shoot a deer with a 30-30...sometimes that means 100yds, usually not for white tail in brush, at least in my part of the country (North East), but sometimes. I can't quote laws, but not to many people let you hunt with an ak/sks. But, they are fun to shoot. I don't hunt anymore, and if I did, I wouldn't even be allowed to use a rifle in my state, but if I did, I would go for the typical standard...30-06. Load it up for large white tail, lighten em up for smaller game. As far as a round, coming from something with a large capacity magazine, that has power, I stand by 7.62x51 every time. If I need to drop some something very large, and ferocious, or something way over on a mountain in the distance, minimum 7mm Rem. mag., but more likely, .300 Win. mag, or .375 H&H mag.
Rey C.
Racing is life... anything else is just waiting.
I live in the South East/Mid Atlanitc. We can (thankfully) use rifles here. And you can hunt with an AK or an SKS here (minimum caliber is .25 - the .243 is legal, the .223 is not), but the maximum magazine capacity is 5 rounds for rifles and 3 rounds for shotguns. Pistols? Ya know, come to think of it, I don't know that there is a maximum magazine capacity for pistols. Not that one would take a Glock with a 30 round stick magazine hunting, but now I'm curious. Anyway, for big game, the minimum pistol caliber is a .38 - if using a rifle cartridge, it reverts back to the .25.
I understand where you're coming from. And I absolutely agree with you on the 7.62x51mm NATO / .308 Winchester - thought by many to be the most ballistically perfect round there is. I've shot AR15 variants in .308 and they do punish you a bit. So in "given circumstances", I'd probably choose the AK in 7.62x39mm, just because it's easier to control the hit zone in rapid fire mode. But I have .308 rifles with Mauser actions and I think the world of them. The .308 :bowdown:
Years ago I bought a .300 Weatherby Magnum. A group of us had this grand elk hunt planned in Montana. But then the main guy committed suicide before we were to leave.
So I haven't picked that monster up in years. I don't really hunt that much anymore either. The deer come in my yard now and (I'm sure) laugh at me. It's humiliating. It's like having a hot stripper come to your door, flash her pussy at you and then laugh as she walks away. I might have to walk out with my .44 Mag and blast one of them this year... just to keep the deer population around here honest.
I understand where you're coming from. And I absolutely agree with you on the 7.62x51mm NATO / .308 Winchester - thought by many to be the most ballistically perfect round there is. I've shot AR15 variants in .308 and they do punish you a bit. So in "given circumstances", I'd probably choose the AK in 7.62x39mm, just because it's easier to control the hit zone in rapid fire mode. But I have .308 rifles with Mauser actions and I think the world of them. The .308 :bowdown:
Years ago I bought a .300 Weatherby Magnum. A group of us had this grand elk hunt planned in Montana. But then the main guy committed suicide before we were to leave.
So I haven't picked that monster up in years. I don't really hunt that much anymore either. The deer come in my yard now and (I'm sure) laugh at me. It's humiliating. It's like having a hot stripper come to your door, flash her pussy at you and then laugh as she walks away. I might have to walk out with my .44 Mag and blast one of them this year... just to keep the deer population around here honest.
Mr. Daystar
In a bell tower, watching you through cross hairs.
In Ohio, I believe it's 3 rounds for shotgun...deer and fowl. Pistol is a minimum of .357mag., and I'm not sure about maximum capacity, but I do believe you can use a Desert Eagle...so 7-9 maybe? I've never fired an AR variant, but the FAL wasn't to bad. Lets face it, .223 isn't really good for much beyond, squirrel groundhog, and humans...and you have to double/triple tap the humans! But still, it is a standard NATO round, so I stick with what will, or should be plentiful in the event things "happen". The Weatherby's are nice, and beautiful pieces of craftsmanship, but I try to stay away from guns that I would cry over dropping. Not to mention, the specialty calibers...at what? About $4.00 a round. Still, if you're going to stop something big, they make a caliber for it.
Rey C.
Racing is life... anything else is just waiting.
When I first got the .300, I bought a box of Weatherby ammo at the dealer. And yeah, they were about $50 for a box of 20. But several of my friends also had the same caliber, so we went together and had one guy make some for us. I think we averaged about $20 for 20 after that. I have enough loaded now to do me the rest of my life, no more than I've shot it.
Yeah, dropping and scarring up the Weatherby would hurt my feelings - I might cry. But I paid enough for the Leupold scope to buy a Remington BDL, so if I broke that thing, I might cut my wrists. Like a vintage Jaguar, it's more of a "trailer queen" now. Neither it nor my Shiloh Sharps see much daylight. They're just something to have, I guess.
Yeah, dropping and scarring up the Weatherby would hurt my feelings - I might cry. But I paid enough for the Leupold scope to buy a Remington BDL, so if I broke that thing, I might cut my wrists. Like a vintage Jaguar, it's more of a "trailer queen" now. Neither it nor my Shiloh Sharps see much daylight. They're just something to have, I guess.
Yes, it's lower in general, not just with firearms. The US is a very individualist and violent nature. It has been for 400 years and it has not been lowered to levels of industrialized nations in the EU in even more recent times either.
No, most nations don't have the class of media that the US does in exposing the assholes and bitches that run their governments. The US media does a great job of exposing a shitload, even if 98% of everything else they do is stir up conflict for advertising dollars (well in excess of any other nation).
