Outlawing guns in the US ...

[marquis2]

Huh? Or were you making a joke.

Again, I hope you were making a joke. A ship was far more than a four masted sailing vessel in the 1790s.

Just like firearms were more than just a musket then as well.

No. A ship was only used for a four master.Other vessels had their own descriptions.
Believe it or not, even as late as WW1 there were naval personnel who objected to calling the Royal Navy vessels "ships"

 

[weedout]

Sorry for my english.
Why do killings happen so oftenly in the States whereas they do less in Europe for example? the solution is so simple that i still can't realize why they keep saying it's a basic right, if we make guns illegal, less of them will travel and will be sold, except illegally, consequently, less people will have the opportunity of bearing arms and pull a trigger and kill people, that's as stupid as mathematics. Since it's legal, every man in the US is a potential criminal. That's turning people's life into fear.

 

[Ol-Skool-Perv]

I believe we should have the right to bear arms and be good citizens as most who do are. It's too late to make guns illegal in order to stop the flow of weapons on the black market. Of course, like all law-abiding criminals do, thousands and thousand of weapons will be turned into police upon them being made illegal.

Unfortunately, guns in the hands of a undeveloped/unstable/inferior minds will always lead to cowardly gunplay and subsequent tragedies as these people get their way using their gats instead of brains.

My WWII serving grandfather taught me the proper lessons of firearm ownership, and now because of our stupid laws in Canada, I can't inherit his two pistols without a fuckin restricted weapons permit. Well, inherit legally anyway(wink). We spent billions on a Gun Registry but for some reason only unregistered/stolen weapons are still being used by criminals.

Good people + guns = strong and safe community. Unfortunately, the "community" concept is taking a beating in this self-isolated, self interested society we're rapidly turning into

 

[Mr. Daystar]

Sorry for my english.
Why do killings happen so oftenly in the States whereas they do less in Europe for example? the solution is so simple that i still can't realize why they keep saying it's a basic right, if we make guns illegal, less of them will travel and will be sold, except illegally, consequently, less people will have the opportunity of bearing arms and pull a trigger and kill people, that's as stupid as mathematics. Since it's legal, every man in the US is a potential criminal. That's turning people's life into fear.

Do you really believe that all of the war lords in Africa, or the tribal leaders in the Middle East, that wage war, and terrorize the UNARMED citizens that live in their borders, and the neighboring borders, purchased their guns from the US? Those guns, that are murdering innocent people, came from corrupt governments, and bankrupt governments, not from the US, not even from criminals in the US. If you want to punish potential criminals, you better start making cars illegal, and baseball bats, and kitchen knives...shall I continue?

 

[busenbust]

I'll ask Charlie Heston, LOL.

 

[Facetious]

Sorry for my english.
Why do killings happen so oftenly in the States whereas they do less in Europe for example? the solution is so simple that i still can't realize why they keep saying it's a basic right, if we make guns illegal, less of them will travel and will be sold, except illegally, consequently, less people will have the opportunity of bearing arms and pull a trigger and kill people, that's as stupid as mathematics. Since it's legal, every man in the US is a potential criminal. That's turning people's life into fear.

Stupid as mathematics ? "Awashington" DC, with some of the most prohibitive laws, in terms of obtaining a firearm, is always ranked among the top 5 most dangerous cities in America.

 

[Hot Mega]

The motto of the L.A. Police Dept. is, "to protect and serve". That's a lie, it is logistically impossible for the police to protect every individual...After all, they're too busy chasing down people who aren't wearing seat belts, staging elaborate stings to snare those menacing women who want to rent their bodies for sex and arresting people for getting high. Nope, all the cops can do is show up after you're dead, draw a chalk line around your corpse and tape off the area.

Innocent people ought to be able to protect themselves from criminals...plain and simple.

 

[Member2019]

Do you really believe that all of the war lords in Africa, or the tribal leaders in the Middle East, that wage war, and terrorize the UNARMED citizens that live in their borders, and the neighboring borders, purchased their guns from the US? Those guns, that are murdering innocent people, came from corrupt governments, and bankrupt governments, not from the US, not even from criminals in the US. If you want to punish potential criminals, you better start making cars illegal, and baseball bats, and kitchen knives...shall I continue?

Actually, Belgium, Austria, France and several other nations, especially Russia, have a much worse history when it comes to their export restrictions (or lackthereof). The US' has been far more limited to the Americas (although often still far less than the Russians) and select wars, like after the Russian invasion of Afganistan.

In fact, one of Austria's most recent actions, selling a new sniper rifle to Iran, under immense protest of the UK, US and others. Sure enough, not even a month later, it had claimed the life of its American, as Iranian directly supplies Iraqi Shiites.

 

[Mr. Daystar]

Actually, Belgium, Austria, France and several other nations, especially Russia, have a much worse history when it comes to their export restrictions (or lackthereof). The US' has been far more limited to the Americas (although often still far less than the Russians) and select wars, like after the Russian invasion of Afganistan.

In fact, one of Austria's most recent actions, selling a new sniper rifle to Iran, under immense protest of the UK, US and others. Sure enough, not even a month later, it had claimed the life of its American, as Iranian directly supplies Iraqi Shiites.

So, you agree, are correcting, or adding to my statement? I'm trying to be sure I understand your post.

 

[Member2019]

So, you agree, are correcting, or adding to my statement? I'm trying to be sure I understand your post.

All members of the UN Security Council have hardly been innocent.

In the case of Africa, you have a lot of former, European Imperalist with a lot of influence, funding and control of some of the trade.

In the Americas, you have a lot of US involvement, especially against the Russians during the Cold War (now days it's even more interesting, on many sides).

Frankly, none of this has anything to do with the individualistic and violent nature of the US in general. That's why when countless locales in the US outlaw guns, they do little to reduce violent crime. DC is a perfect example.

 

[Maev]

Americans despite being the most powerful country in the world are fightened violent and hate filled, and want to respond to anyone who disagrees with them be blowing them to bits. Look that the size of their army!! Their whole society is crazy and frightening to the rest of the world.

They like being frightened, they just cannot see a different way of getting on with each other or with the rest of the world. Until that changes they will keep their guns.

Amazing how Europeans get on without them?

 

[bodie54]

Despite being a strong 2nd amendment advocate I voted for option 4, which seems a much more reasoned, democratic proposal than the overwhelming favorite of the voters here, the inflexible option 5.

 

[Roughneck]

Despite being a strong 2nd amendment advocate I voted for option 4, which seems a much more reasoned, democratic proposal than the overwhelming favorite of the voters here, the inflexible option 5.

As someone who voted in favor of the "inflexible option 5", let me tell you that I don't really mind option 4.

My reasons for choosing 5 over 4 lie simply with my personal philosophy regarding the absolute sanctity of property rights.

cheers,

 

[bodie54]

As someone who voted in favor of the "inflexible option 5", let me tell you that I don't really mind option 4.

My reasons for choosing 5 over 4 lie simply with my personal philosophy regarding the absolute sanctity of property rights.

cheers,

I can fully appreciate that philosophy RN. But option 5 isn't directed at the 2nd amendment only. It states, "No, and I don't think any Amendments of the Bill of Rights should ever be repealed".

The words "any" and "ever" prevented me from choosing #5 over #4.

 

[stampede2873]

:Whips out concealed carry permit:

Go ahead... try and take them.

 

[miles123]

First off...I want to say there are some good posts here and it is mostly a polite and nice exchange. Thanks!

I believe the right to carry arms exists not for home protection from thieves or murderers, but rather to defend against government bodies. If the tanks and LWRCs roll up my street I don't see myself or the rest of the militia (a.k.a revolution) having a chance in hell throwing rocks in the street.

Although I align with neither party, this is something I don't understand regarding the stereotypes that liberals don't like the 2nd amendment and conservatives love it: Why are many (yes, I know not all) of my democratic friends fighting against the second amendment? Most liberals "I" know have a touch of revolution in them and this has to be one of the most fundamental ideas in support of that. For those of us that bitch about "W" or "Obama" we ought to be holding on to this right tightly.

Additionally, some posts have asked questions as to why crime rates are so much higher in the U.S.A., than Europe or other countries. Diversity, minimal risk, and wealth are what I believe the answers are though I certainly am not the expert.

1. Diversity in the fact that the U.S. is a more ethnically diverse country than any other you will find right now on the planet. Lots of groups of people come in with hatred towards other groups. The (insert country or ethnicity here) _________, _________, and _________ ethnic groups don't always get along. The _____________ and the ___________ don't get along...etc...so on and so forth. Now put them all in the same city together or better yet...the same street. Centuries of anger built up just in time for your neighbor's bake sale. You know the one that you hate so much and don't know why.

2. I agree with the post that criminals will still get guns if you make them illegal, but those that are law abiding will not have them. Why are so many crimes committed with stolen firearms or ones with the serial numbers removed? Criminals.

Additionally, crime statistics are illusive in the fact that a large number of murders every year are related to immigrants (usually illegal). Someone just entered who is involved in drug trafficing and is murdered. This goes down as a criminal statistic on the U.S.'s books even though said person may have only been in the country a week, he adds to the yearly body count nonetheless. Now make it two rival drug cartels and the diversity point above and you can have a hefty body count with people who don't even pay taxes. This leads to the points on wealth and minimal risk.

3. If you are going to the "land of opportunity" (yeah right). You must remember it is the land of opportunity for criminals as well. Why would you rip of something in your home country when you can go to the U.S. and steal something that will pay for your entire family to live like kings back home? It is the same as stealing a car, why steal a piece of shit, when you can steal a mercedes and the penalty is the same. It is all the same "GTA" business. Who wouldn't steal the Mercedes?... and the U.S. is full of them (theoretically speaking). Oh and btw...you will need to be caught red handed doing this and probably more than once before you have a severe amount of incarceration. The incarceration will, of course, will be the burden of legal tax payers.

Furthermore, with all the wealth there is a large population here that can afford to buy them more so than most other countries in the world. I wish we were more like some Asian countries I've lived in. The population is very anit-drugs. People simply don't want to do them. It pangs me that the U.S. isn't smarter and its citizens don't avoid buying drugs like the plague. Major/Violent crime would be reduced drastically if we weren't such a seller's market for illicit drugs.

I have more to say, but jesus....I'm tired of thinking about it.

Thanks guys for letting me vent. Keep it up.

 

[Lucky7000]

An armed population was rightfully seen by our forefathers as one of the most fundamental foundations of American life, as seen by the fact that it's the 2nd Amendment, rivaled only in necessity by free speech and opinion itself. It refers to the fact that we the people have control over our fate and aren't at the mercy of the government when a life or death situation occurs.

As usual in such discussions I've seen people reference crime rate comparisons, but you have to understand such statistics will be skewed for one simple reason: the USA IS HUGE. You can't just apply sweeping statistics as a generalization for the whole country; you'll find that the areas with the least crime also happen to be the areas with the highest amount of LEGAL gun ownership and the least population density.

The Areas with the most crime are areas with the highest population density and the LEAST amount of LEGAL gun ownership. Due to our sheer size and expansion style, we have more square footage of densely populated, urban areas than European nations and this skews the statistics.

For example, go ahead and look up the official crime reports from NYC and London's respective police departments. In NYC guns are LEGALLY obtainable (though frustrating) and in London they are totally OUTLAWED... yet London seems to have an astronomically higher crime rate. Both cities have the same population.

Crime has nothing to do with a piece of metal, that's all a gun is. It has to do with the environment, parents, economic conditions, and efficiency of law enforcement in catching criminals and providing education.

It all boils down to this: do you want to live for the lord of the manor in the hopes that he'll help you when your life depends on it, or do you want to be able to build, maintain, and protect your own life, land, and family? Neither is wrong, it's all a matter of opinion and this is why we have borders.

If the USA ever bans guns on the federal level we will have a civil war and rip apart into 5 different countries at least.

 

[Riffy]

Hmmm... never been to the USA although I would like to (if they'd have me) so my opinion on the gun issue isn't the most informed in the world, so this is just my 2 cents.

I think the whole world (not just the USA) would be better off if guns didn't exist. OK so that's not gonna happen, but less guns would be better than more guns. I can't think why more guns would be better.

As for the often spouted fact that "It's my Constitutional right to bear arms"... yes it may well be, but that Constitution was drawn up yonks ago... and the US has changed it's Constitution on a few occasions (so I understand) so it's not unchangeable is it? It has been and can be changed again.

So that's it from me. Living in a place where just the odd farmer Giles has a gun and probably the cops 6 miles up the road... yes and a nutter too maybe... but not every fucker round me has one... even that angry guy up the road who gets in a bad mood for no reason. Just think if he had a gun.... What? You mean in the USA he could just go get one from the local 7-11! Errr.. OK..:2 cents:

 

[Lucky7000]

What? You mean in the USA he could just go get one from the local 7-11! Errr.. OK..:2 cents:

One of the biggest misconceptions I see foreigners have about the US is that you can just waltz into any corner store and buy a gun, and that just about everyone around you has one. Totally false, many local jurisdictions employ strict licensing, background checks, and then some.

 

[miles123]

.


As for the often spouted fact that "It's my Constitutional right to bear arms"... yes it may well be, but that Constitution was drawn up yonks ago... and the US has changed it's Constitution on a few occasions (so I understand) so it's not unchangeable is it? It has been and can be changed again.

:

I like this post.

I agree with you in that things are changeable. That actually is what an amendment is, a change. I don't think things should be unchangeable, I just think that this one doesn't need to be changed.

I do feel the adage: "American is a land made of immigrants" needs to be re-thought.

I guess I mostly agree with your post that things shouldn't be set in stone, but I just think that for now guns aren't the problem, but other "unchangeable" things should be changed now.

Your opinion is welcome btw....so don't worry about it. Just because you may not have a lot of experience with the U.S. doesn't mean you can't speak about it.