Obama's Afghanistan Speech....

[jasonk282]

Couldn't find video on Rumsfeld (maybe an illustration of how irrelevant he is?) but he basically echoed Cheney's sentiments. When do comments like these cease to be in the interest of patriotism and simply become self-serving?

It would be irrelevant but the media continutes to go after Cheney and Rumsfeld for their 'advise" and "opinions" I would get mad at the media.

I'm fucking sick of this mindless partisan bullshit. We're either all for America or we are for our political persuasion. I fear that way too many of us (both right and left) lean seriously toward the latter. Fuck you if that's you.

partisan bullshit has been going on for as long as I can remember. It's not going to go away untill there we get rid of the party system in American politics but that will never happen. You just have to vote for the guy that is close to YOUR platforms.

 

[Hot Mega]

partisan bullshit has been going on for as long as I can remember. It's not going to go away untill there we get rid of the party system in American politics but that will never happen. You just have to vote for the guy that is close to YOUR platforms.

Here's the thing though....people decry it when it happens to their ppl then they support and dismiss it as having gone on forever when their "team" engages in it.

Of course the reality is somewhere between. We need partisanship, rancor even.. if you will. But the long tradition of it should stop at our nation's borders and when the interests of Americans is paramount has evaporated. And I hate to say it but it's absolutely true that the overwhelming blame for this is the republicans and their hatchet attacks started by the likes of Rush and Gingrich.

Tiddly-wink about the bullshit but play it straight on the big shit.

 

[jasonk282]

Here's the thing though....people decry it when it happens to their ppl then they support and dismiss it as having gone on forever when their "team" engages in it.

Of course the reality is somewhere between. We need partisanship, rancor even.. if you will. But the long tradition of it should stop at our nation's borders and when the interests of Americans is paramount has evaporated. And I hate to say it but it's absolutely true that the overwhelming blame for this is the republicans and their hatchet attacks started by the likes of Rush and Gingrich.

Tiddly-wink about the bullshit but play it straight on the big shit.

Your right Rush and other have helped the partisan train run a muck. Which is why we should make our decesion about who we vote for on the issues and not the party.

 

[Facetious]

Re: Obama's Afghanistan Speech....

I just don't understand how the president thinks that our guys can complete this mission in one - one and a half years when we couldn't complete that mission in the previous eight years. The President certainly had plenty of time to come up with a plan, let's just hope that it works.
Also, I think that it's ridiculous that the president and his handlers felt that it was necessary for the the need to say word one about a 'troop withdraw' date, particularly when referencing one of the most challenging and rugged high elevation mountain war theaters known to man, all against an enemy that is native to the area (and believe that their god is on their side).

I hope for the most successful of outcomes for all Americans involved in this effort.

 

[Hot Mega]

Re: Obama's Afghanistan Speech....

I just don't understand how the president thinks that our guys can complete this mission in one - one and a half years when we couldn't complete that mission in the previous eight years.

He believes as he's state a gazillion times that it was underestimated and therefore under-resourced horrendously by his predecessor.

The President certainly had plenty of time to come up with a plan, let's just hope that it works.

Plenty of time indeed. Certainly the type of deliberation appropriate for the seriousness and consequences of the circumstances.:thumbsup:

Also, I think that it's ridiculous that the president and his handlers felt that it was necessary for the the need to say word one about a 'troop withdraw' date, particularly when referencing one of the most challenging and rugged high elevation mountain war theaters known to man, all against an enemy that is native to the area (and believe that their god is on their side).

Here's a thought....maybe we wrap it up earlier. What if the withdrawal date was 20 years from now? Would that make a difference if we committed the necessary resources and actually accomplished the goal of taking out the AQ network? So the date thing might be irrelevant after all. Can we wait and see if the date thingy even matters.:2 cents:

I hope for the most successful of outcomes for all Americans involved in this effort.

Theeeeerre ya go... That's the spirit Go USA, Go USA.....

 

[titsrock]

I somehow see not much changing to win the war in Afghanistan, and us coming out of it in 18 months no more ahead than we are now.

This is exactly the point. We are fighting a "war" where we have no real way to quantify "victory over the enemy"? How does one army declare victory over an abstract concept like terrorism?

Could 134000 troops take over Texas? Isn't Afghanistan similar in size to Texas?

We have already gotten whatever "good" there was to be had by removing Saddam from power and by defeating the Taliban 7 years ago.

We are simply wasting our soldier's lives, money and time in seemingly endless occupations.

I'm incensed that douchebag Republicans have no fucking problem writing trillion dollar blank checks to war monger but in the same breath REFUSE to remake our domestic healthcare system? Something that benefits all Americans? Shame on those moronic, hypocritical assholes

I hope Obama proves me wrong, but this Afghan surge will mean nothing in the grand scheme and in a year from now we'll all STILL be wondering what the fuck we're doing in Afghanistan:weeping:

 

[abejarano12]

While I don't argee with him sending more troops over there. I think he understand what Bush, Cheney and rest of those assholes never understood. He is sending troops that will get hurt or killed. Obama gets it he knows that people will die. I'm a history major and in all the research that I have done, I have never seen a President Of the United States witness the return of fallen troops.

 

[Nester6]

....sounded a lot like something George Bush would have made (without the inevitable malaprops and mispronunciations that is). I think it is a mistake to deploy more troops there. The enemy is not in Afghanistan any more than it is or was in Iraq. Bad call from my perspective, Mr. President. I hope I'm wrong but fear I'm not.

The more things change, the more they stay the same. I'm very disappointed.

If you send troops in , you FUCKIN do not, in the same breath, tell them when they will be pulled out as Obama did!
This just encourages the enemy. At least Bush's answer as to when they woulld come home was correctly, "When the job is done!" I don't believe Obama has a clue.

 

[Hot Mega]

If you send troops in , you FUCKIN do not, in the same breath, tell them when they will be pulled out as Obama did!
This just encourages the enemy. At least Bush's answer as to when they woulld come home was correctly, "When the job is done!" I don't believe Obama has a clue.

Question....if you encircle them and kick their asses before that date...what the fuck difference does it make???

Like I asked earlier, what if the pullout date was 20 years from now?? It wouldn't if you win or accomplish the goals first. So it's just babble to complain about a pullout date....if you're kicking their asses the only say so the enemy has in when you leave is if they die or capitulate.

 

[calpoon]

We're talking about American lives for God's sake! If Obama really meant what he said about our security, he'd take the gloves off and do whatever it took to get these guys.

Pull our troops out of Iraq...and send them back into afghan. Good move BO. :o

I don't want to sound like a cynical nut...but do you really believe that America has any interest in ever ceasing to fight an active war? War is good business, and honestly I don't think that Americans would be willing to accept what it would mean in reality to not have the military conducting operations overseas at such scales; EG., bases closing and cutting funds for military services.

 

[Facetious]

Jagger - I know you to be 100% civil, honest, measured, rational and serious, all of the things that are essential for a substantive discussion... :hatsoff:
Having said that, may I get your take one or all of these thoughts ?

Re: Obama's Afghanistan Speech....

I just don't understand how the president thinks that our guys can complete this mission in one - one and a half years when we couldn't complete that mission in the previous eight years. The President certainly had plenty of time to come up with a plan, let's just hope that it works.
Also, I think that it's ridiculous that the president and his handlers felt that it was necessary for the the need to say word one about a 'troop withdraw' date, particularly when referencing one of the most challenging and rugged high elevation mountain war theaters known to man, all against an enemy that is native to the area (and believe that their god is on their side).

I hope for the most successful of outcomes for all Americans involved in this effort.

More thoughts -

Since both political parties have to oppose one another on virtually everything and the bush admins intentions when going to war in Afghanistan was victory against Al quaeta, how can we be assured that obama's intentions are entirely and unequivocally victorious ?

What is ultimate victory in Afghanistan ? Should the democrats and republicans agree to the terms of said victory before deploying any additional military service personnel to Afgh. ?

 

[D-rock]

Jagger - I know you to be 100% civil, honest, measured, rational and serious, all of the things that are essential for a substantive discussion... :hatsoff:
Having said that, may I get your take one or all of these thoughts ?

Re: Obama's Afghanistan Speech....

I just don't understand how the president thinks that our guys can complete this mission in one - one and a half years when we couldn't complete that mission in the previous eight years. The President certainly had plenty of time to come up with a plan, let's just hope that it works.
Also, I think that it's ridiculous that the president and his handlers felt that it was necessary for the the need to say word one about a 'troop withdraw' date, particularly when referencing one of the most challenging and rugged high elevation mountain war theaters known to man, all against an enemy that is native to the area (and believe that their god is on their side).

I hope for the most successful of outcomes for all Americans involved in this effort.

More thoughts -

Since both political parties have to oppose one another on virtually everything and the bush admins intentions when going to war in Afghanistan was victory against Al quaeta, how can we be assured that obama's intentions are entirely and unequivocally victorious ?

What is ultimate victory in Afghanistan ? Should the democrats and republicans agree to the terms of said victory before deploying any additional military service personnel to Afgh. ?

Perhaps that's it. Perhaps the time limit is ok because the goals are different now than the last 8 years. Not that this is what's happening, but I can really see some people looking at it and thinking if we really haven't changed anything, if the Afghan people really don't take initiative themselves in another year and a half then there really is no hope so we should just pull out anyhow. I wonder if the time limit was put in not only as a political necessity over here, but as a way to get the Afghans’ asses in gear over there. After all people tend to get more motivated when they know time is running out on them.

 

[Hot Mega]

Perhaps that's it. Perhaps the time limit is ok because the goals are different now than the last 8 years. Not that this is what's happening, but I can really see some people looking at it and thinking if we really haven't changed anything, if the Afghan people really don't take initiative themselves in another year and a half then there really is no hope so we should just pull out anyhow. I wonder if the time limit was put in not only as a political necessity over here, but as a way to get the Afghans’ asses in gear over there. After all people tend to get more motivated when they know time is running out on them.

What can I say...other than more brilliance from D-Rock! Rep to you sir for pointing this out....

Remember, Obama decried endlessly the open-ended commitments by the Bush administration as disincentives for the Iraqis to get their act straight.

Very good point..bravo!!

 

[Jagger69]

Jag...

There are many of these but the relevant part is at about 1:30 in this vid....I suppose we can play semantics with the verbs and adjectives but I take this and everything else he said regarding Afghanistan as his intentions on escalating that war.

Ok well, in retrospect, touche' I guess but obviously since the time those statements were made and the present time the situation has changed and this fact is reflected in the amount of time it took Obama to make a decision about what to do. In that time frame, Al-Qaeda has shifted its presence to Pakistan. Sure, they could reemerge in Afghanistan but it seems that we are diplomatically going way out of our way not to offend the Pakistanis when that's where our focus should be. Are we once again taking our "eye of the ball" as he said? I just don't see how more troops are going to solve the problem. I hope I'm wrong....and fast.

This is exactly the point. We are fighting a "war" where we have no real way to quantify "victory over the enemy"? How does one army declare victory over an abstract concept like terrorism?

Could 134000 troops take over Texas? Isn't Afghanistan similar in size to Texas?

We have already gotten whatever "good" there was to be had by removing Saddam from power and by defeating the Taliban 7 years ago.

We are simply wasting our soldier's lives, money and time in seemingly endless occupations.

I'm incensed that douchebag Republicans have no fucking problem writing trillion dollar blank checks to war monger but in the same breath REFUSE to remake our domestic healthcare system? Something that benefits all Americans? Shame on those moronic, hypocritical assholes

I hope Obama proves me wrong, but this Afghan surge will mean nothing in the grand scheme and in a year from now we'll all STILL be wondering what the fuck we're doing in Afghanistan:weeping:

Exactly! (although I don't think I want to refer to my esteemed colleagues across the aisle as "douchebags" but I certainly understand the sentiment) :thumbsup:

 

[Hot Mega]

Ok well, in retrospect, touche' I guess but obviously since the time those statements were made and the present time the situation has changed and this fact is reflected in the amount of time it took Obama to make a decision about what to do. In that time frame, Al-Qaeda has shifted its presence to Pakistan. Sure, they could reemerge in Afghanistan but it seems that we are diplomatically going way out of our way not to offend the Pakistanis when that's where our focus should be. Are we once again taking our "eye of the ball" as he said? I just don't see how more troops are going to solve the problem. I hope I'm wrong....and fast.



Exactly! (although I don't think I want to refer to my esteemed colleagues across the aisle as "douchebags" but I certainly understand the sentiment) :thumbsup:

Yeah but you have to consider that he must have knew at what point he would be able to make a change if he were to become POTUS....

In his estimation the circumstances haven't demonstrably changed from when he made those statements until today....

AQ is still hold up in Pakistan and we need to enlist the Pakistanis to push from one side while we push from the other.

 

[titsrock]

I don't want to sound like a cynical nut...but do you really believe that America has any interest in ever ceasing to fight an active war? War is good business, and honestly I don't think that Americans would be willing to accept what it would mean in reality to not have the military conducting operations overseas at such scales; EG., bases closing and cutting funds for military services.

Why is this cynicism? I think it's reality. Our economy is still in the shitter (hello Jobs Summit!) and if Obama were to bring 100,000 Americans back home to flood the job market...we'll, we don't need that right now. I HOPE that's what he's thinking. I HOPE he took his time to make "his decision" simply to give the economy more time to turnaround. It didn't. Hence, it's time for the Afghan surge.

We do need some military bases around the nation, but our entire military "makeup" must change to meet 21st Century realities and beyond. As in..tanks, aircraft carriers, battleships may not be so practical anymore. Subs, transports, special forces teams, and copters may be the only assets needed anymore :dunno:

The Bush Administration gave birth to the over-reliance on private contractors, so if we're basically reliant on private contractors to support the military, perhaps we'll just shift military fighting TO the contractors..:dunno:

 

[meesterperfect]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091231/ap_on_go_ot/us_cia_afghan_attack
WASHINGTON – The Associated Press has learned that the suicide bomber who killed seven CIA employees at a remote outpost in southeastern Afghanistan had been invited onto the base and was not searched.


maybe they thought if they searched him that would be politically incorrect and offensive.
Welcome Brother........BOOM

 

[morison1954]

Al Qaeda is an idea not an organization and definitely not in a place. Politics are local. Bombing is a tactic of local freedom fighters. Obama knows this and has a full grasp of the distinction. Freedom fighters are local, like the Taliban, and without extra-territorial ambitions. Al Qaeda are a small bunch of narcissistic psychopaths with grandiose delusions of a worldwide caliphate. They are ignorant of the workings of history, have achieved fuck all, and it will remain ever thus. Their last idiot couldn't even set his undies on fire. They have poisoned the well of whatever base they had. Ordinary muslims despise them for making it rain blood shit and for defiling their religion.

Integrated intelligence services and good policing have always been the management strategy of choice as we wait for history to obliterate these turds. Fuss gives them oxygen.

Obama's war mongering is local politics. Killing contains his best chance of a second term. I used to be a supporter but the combination of the Afghanistan and Nobel speeches is finito for me. American war boy. No second term. Otherwise politicians and politics as deserved.

 

[morison1954]

Erratum and clarification to the above if you will be so kind.

"Al Qaeda is an idea more than an organization and definitely not in a place. Ideas can have vast power but AQ's only appeal to a tiny cohort of character disordered losers. Politics..."

 

[meesterperfect]

freedom fighters?
whats that the freedom to blow up innocent civilians whenever they feel like it?