Kolb is injured.
Mcnabb spoke to Andy Reid, Jeffrey Kurie and Tom Heckert about getting Vick in an Eagles jersey. Mcnabb wanted this. He knows this is his team and he knows his job as the starting QB isn't in danger.
Michael Vick signs 2-yr deal w/Eagles
- Thread starter rwill25
- Start date
Kolb is injured.
Mcnabb spoke to Andy Reid, Jeffrey Kurie and Tom Heckert about getting Vick in an Eagles jersey. Mcnabb wanted this. He knows this is his team and he knows his job as the starting QB isn't in danger.
ChefChiTown
The secret ingredient? MY BALLS
I think it's extremely ironic that so many people (not just here on the forum) are pulling the "he got off so easy just because he's an athlete" card when it comes to Michael Vick. Look, the fact is, Michael Vick served his time and paid the price for his mistakes. Ironically, the people who believe that he "got off easy" just because he's a rich, famous athlete, are the same exact people who want him to receive unfair treatment just because he's a rich, famous athlete.
If Michael Vick was a garbageman, bank teller or construction worker, would you be mad if he went back to work as a garbageman, bank teller or construction worker after he served his time and got out of prison? Would you desire that he never be allowed to work as a garbageman, bank teller or construction worker ever again? No, you wouldn't. But, IRONICALLY, just because he's a rich, famous athlete, people want Michael Vick to never be able to work in his field (the NFL) ever again.
People fucking amuse me sometimes.
If Michael Vick was a garbageman, bank teller or construction worker, would you be mad if he went back to work as a garbageman, bank teller or construction worker after he served his time and got out of prison? Would you desire that he never be allowed to work as a garbageman, bank teller or construction worker ever again? No, you wouldn't. But, IRONICALLY, just because he's a rich, famous athlete, people want Michael Vick to never be able to work in his field (the NFL) ever again.
People fucking amuse me sometimes.
Well, I do sincerely hope the man has changed his ways and learned from his horrible behavior. He has a second chance now, hope he doesn't fuck it up.
Marlo Manson
Hello Sexy girl how your Toes doing?
Yeah your right he does get allot of attention because he is a rich athlete, but on the otherhand do you think that "garbageman, bank teller, or contruction worker" would have only gotten 2 years for the same thing vick did? they would prolly still be in prison, & also with being convicted of felony charges, I contend those folks prolly wouldn't get those jobs back, unless they were EXTREMELY friendly with the owner, or they happen to be family, otherwise, were talking about FORMER "garbageman, bank teller" those companies wouldn't deal with former felons IMO, maybe a construction worker gets his job back, state run road constructon.
So yeah double standard, the more attention you get, the harder the hammer falls, & NO vick shouldn't be allowed to ever play in the NFL again, another football league fine, CFL, arena football, EuroFL, who gives a fuck, but NOT the NFL, he doesn't deserve that oppurtunity ever again IMO. :dunno::2 cents:
Ace Boobtoucher
Founder and Captain of the Douchepatrol
Ron Mexico got his second chance the minute they released him from federal custody. It's a better chance than any other felon will get and it sickens me to think he's getting 1.6 million dollars for playing a game. I think it would have been awesome if they said, "here's forty grand, enjoy your time on the practice squad and we'll see if there's a spot for you next year."
Actually the pay scale for any professional athlete is pretty revolting, considering the low pay teachers get. Our priorities are so far out of whack in the U.S.
Actually the pay scale for any professional athlete is pretty revolting, considering the low pay teachers get. Our priorities are so far out of whack in the U.S.
I'll take that bet.
Michael Vick had several options(hear that the Bengals is another team) & 'mediocre' QB's who are polarizing,two year layoff,ex convicts ,etc.......don't get 6 million dollar deals.:dunno:
Vick was a good ,but not great QB mainly because offensive coordinators in the NFL do not have the courage nor creativity to utilize a players talent. It's a coppycat League were everyone is running the same damn offense(west coast or variation).
Salary has little to no bearing on how good a quarterback or any player for that matter actually is. It's completely indicative of how he's perceived to play. Case in point: two of the highest paid QBs last year were Alex Smith and JaMarcus Russell, both of whom had a lower Passer Rating Index than the league average, and have for their entire careers.
Vick actually wasn't good. He was in fact below average. His Passer Rating index career is 94 (100 being league average), meaning he's a suitable backup, but a pretty damn terrible starting quarterback. His career Completion Percentage index is 80 (100 being league average again), that's absolutely horrid.
It's been in practice in the NFL for 2 seasons, of course it's going to be effective. It's effectiveness to date has been exclusively due to the relative ignorance around the NFL to it. That's part of the reason why I called it garbage, but the more prominent reason is because it's been in existence in the college game for the better part of 10 years, and has been mediocre in the long run. But the NFL treats it as though it's some holy grail that no-one had ever heard of, which in fact, is utterly idiotic.
That could be. But it is interesting that he chose the one city where the QB has a history of getting a love-hate reaction from the fans, and where the QB is perpetually one bad game away from losing public support.
Vick was one of the leagues highest paid players in history not simply because of what he brought in terms of passing skills but because of his prowess as a scrambler and rushing ability from the QB position.....he also had one of the best arms in the league too.
He went on to become a league MVP candidate, All Pro and probably the leading rusher among QBs....add it all up and people pay money to see a player like that perform.
Good shot at being intellectually dishonest by naming two QB's who were paid due to an unfair pay scale in the NFL. My point was that after serving two years in prison & being one of the most polarizing players in history why would a team sign a 'bad' ex NFL QB/ex convict .:dunno: The Eagles have an 8 year waiting list for ticket sales so they don't need to sell tickets:dunno:
Put your slide ruler away & look at the actual games & the W-L column when Vick was a starter against when not on the field in Atlanta(37-28 w/Vick & 3-11 w/o Vick or nearly 60% win clip with a terrible franchise he was drafted to.). That's not including his trip to the NFC Championship game.
I don't think the wildcat is the holy grail ,but what it does show is that NFL offenses/coordinators are afraid(job insecurity) to use their imaginations & that the League is a copycat one with all teams running the same damn offense. All Qb's do not have the same skill set(ie Vick/
McNabb) so it is ridiculous to try to force them all to run the same offenses.
No one here said Vick was Tom Brady/P. Manning ,but the man has a track record & more than half the League would have given up their Qb's to obtain Vick in 05.
Exactly. It is common knowledge (or should be) that Vick got an unusually harsh punishiment(rare precendence) for his crime(I personally know several guys ,who ran dogfighting rings have been arrested over the weekend, & back at work Monday Morning). If any serious time was served it was because drugs were involved also.
The "he got off so easy because he's an athlete/celebrity" perception is very prevelant in our society , but in fact these guys are subject to more stringent rulings just so the ELECTED D.A.'s won't come across as giving preferential treatment. With the public/internet lynch mobs this is NOT a good time to be a celebrity 'defendant' in this country
I'd think it would be more accurate to say that the Atlanta front office was stupid, didn't know what it was doing back then, and vastly overpaid somebody who's skills they greatly overestimated. In the final years he was there if they could have done it all over again I doubt they would pay him that much or even acquire him in the first place.
As far as somebody's ability to put fans in the seats, that my apply a little bit to MLB because it has a lot more games and no salary cap or revenue sharing, and to an even much lesser extent to the NBA or NHL, but for the NFL that is a near total non-factor that people try to bring out. With the exception of once in a great while with a team like Detroit or a team that's equally as bad for as long, it's extremely rare for an NFL team to not sell out every game.
Well people keep trying to place an intrinsic value on things that only have market values.
With respect to some of the players who get signed to major contracts...for every one who gets that kind of money there a many, many, many who don't get that opportunity.
Take a look at Brady for all that he's done being a 6th round pick...he'll never be able to recover what he has been worth to the Pats.
Vick was worth what he got paid when he got it..because the Falcons operate on market value for players as a player who hasn't played a down for you has no intrinsic value.
Alright, I'll grant you those two examples may not have been most poignant. However, you've arrived at the same conclusion as I have: the NFL has been plagued because of an unfair pay scale. Vick's being paid based on what his perceived value is, not what he's actually worth. His stats illustrate he's at best below average, and more likely, a terrible quarterback with plus scrambling ability.
:1orglaugh I like the slide ruler reference.
But thank you for bringing up the W-L issue, because that really tends to illustrate my point. Outside of the 2004 season, the team was 26-23 with Vick, and I don't know about you, but that screams mediocrity to me. Why is the 2004 season important? Because Atlanta by far had their most success of the decade that season. The Falcons offense led by Vick was so successful that they rated at 21st in the league. The defense however, just so happened to be ranked 3rd. Atlanta, (that "terrible" team) during Vicks tenure by overwhelmingly successful because of their defense, not their offense. During his tenure their offense was at best 15th in the league, however their defense at worst was 12th.
Pointing to a W-L record of a team with one particular player is completely futile, because one player does not a team make. Simply put, Vick got credit in Atlanta for leading a team to victory with an offense that, in fact, was in the bottom half of the league, while the defense was easily overlooked despite being in the top 10 the entire time.
That is something you and I agree on. The same thing happened with Tony Dungy and the Cover 2 Defense, but once time went on, teams started being able to exploit weaknesses. Bottom line, creativity only creates success in the short term, long term, it's efficiency, no matter what formation that creates success. You have to play your position well to merit any success in football.
That's true, not all QBs have the same skill sets. But the problem is, most good QBs historically have very similar skill sets: being able to complete passes, and avoid throwing interceptions, two things Vick is particularly inept at. There hasn't been a QB in the history of the NFL who has been above average with below average passing abilities. Regardless of how well Vick runs the ball, in the end if he can't complete passes, he's not a good QB. McNabb may well be the best demonstration of this concept, as he can scramble, but has a career Passer Rating Index of 108, an above average rating. Thus, it makes sense that the Eagles passing game has been pretty successful under McNabb, whereas Atlanta wasn't under Vick. Vicks numbers make him out to be a glorified running back.
Nor is anyone expecting him to be. But his statistics show him to be a below average quarterback. His career Passer Rating Index of 94 puts him in the same category as Tarvaris Jackson (92), and David Carr (91), and last I checked, those guys weren't very good, and teams aren't fighting to get them (despite the fact that Jackson was pretty damn good last year).
I honestly think it is completely stupid that are saying he should never play again or he should not be aloud in the NFL anymore. Yes what he did was wrong but come on people he did the crime and guess what HE DID THE TIME! It is so stupid for people to want to crucify him for a crime he already spent in jail for. you can't punish him for the rest of his life for it. Its over...its a done deal...
I think in football another reason why systems decline over time is because once they get popular enough the availability of good players that fit that system gets harder to find as they are spread out among more teams. A lot of new systems or resurgences of old systems come about because a good coaching staff realizes they don't have the players and probably can't get the players that are good in conventional systems in a short amount of time, but they still realize they have great players so they change the system to take advantage of that instead of forcing a system on players that aren't suited for it. In my opinion I don't really think one system is naturally more dominate than others in most cases, it's just the fact that personal that teams have work better than what some other teams have.
Take the 3-4 for instance. I wouldn't be surprised at all if it starts declining in the next few years if for no other reason than it seems half the teams use it now. Years ago when it was staring to get popularity again with teams like New England there were a bunch of "tweener" DE/OLB and other defensive tackles that didn't really fit anywhere else, but great ones were easier to find than the dominate people in the 4-3 systems. I think that's part of the reason people like Billichick went with it all those years ago. Now finding those great tweener DE/OLB is getting really difficult, and finding that dominate nose tackle that is almost essential to any good 3-4 is getting very very difficult to find. That's why the one or two great ones that come out of college a year are getting drafted so high where before they would have been lucky to come off in the first round.
I wouldn't be surprised if in a few years some teams start going back to things like a cover 2 or Tampa 2 system.
I don't know if this long post was an attempt at a filibuster or what ,but what it did confirm to me was that you REALLY don't understand football besides researching some stats.
Let's talk about that 'vaunted' Atlanta Falcons defense you think so highly of.
Fact is the last three seasons Vick was on the field the Falcons lead the entire League in rushing(3 consecutive seasons & not because of Warrick Dunn ) . Vick was basically a 7.5 to 8.5 yards attempt rusher/1000 yard rusher(MOST Qb's in the NFL dont pass for 8 yards per attempt ). When you have a QB like Vick who rushes for 8 yards per carry & a team that leads the League in Rushing (because of Vick) the defense benefits heavily from it's team dominating Time of possession.
The worst the Falcons frinished overall rushing Offense with Vick at QB was (4th) & a astonishing 3 overall (#1) finishes. The season Vick was injured(03?) the Falcons dropped to 14th in the League in rushing Offense & that super great Falcons defense you foolishly imagined went to 30th in pts allowed & 32nd(last) in Yards allowed:1orglaugh( last place overall defense without Vick's impact on rushing/Time of Possession)
If you would have watched the games & understood Vicks impact & not pull up some stats that you don't understand you would know this already.
I'll take Andy Reid's/Lurie's(the rest of the teams willing to sign a polarizing ex convict) evaluation of Vick over yours.
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