Lutherans to allow sexually active gays as clergy

Wainkerr99

Closed Account
All you are doing is dodging, not even bothering to give an explanation to the questions asked. Maybe if you were able to explain, more people would undertand. But it seems like you don't undertand yourself.

I'm also very curious, if you are such a Christian, why are you in porn message board talking about porn. A porn industry that promotes fornication in every sense, sex merely for pleasure, adultery, and overwhelmingly portrays "unnatural/unreproductive" sex acts like blowjobs and anal penetration?

I assume you mean to ask: "Why are you on a porn message board that talks about porn?"

Well, I guess Will believes it's a tough job, but someone's got to do it.

Do you think porn is evil?

This board does promote all these things you mentioned, but it also has some good sites. If you look around a bit you will see there are celebrity sites, sportswoman sites, there are forums where funny pictures are shown, there is a games section, stuff like that. Petra and her crew have done a phenomenal job over the many decades that she has been working here. The many, many decades. Just kidding!

If you say porn is evil, then you agree that there is good and there is evil. Which to choose?

If porn is evil, what are you doing here?

Here is a question for you. Why do people who love porn always haul out "Judge not lest ye be judged" when confronted about it? If it is evil, then why do people go for it? At what point does the evil stop? Is war alright simply because people say so? I mean, maybe the Saddam Hussein's of this world were right, and we were wrong. Who are we to judge, right? You can't judge one and not the other.

By the way, Jesus did tell the disciples they can judge. (John 7:24).

I understand people may want to indulge their sexual proclivities* without humiliation, but maybe there is a right and a wrong. If one points the wrong out, one is 'judging'. If you say, 'cool', you are accepted by the masses.

Then the dissidents are the religio-fanatic hardcore nutjobs who are full of hate and lack all type of reason.

One would certainly have a materialistic, human centric, temporal view of life. This, then, would exclude any sort of spiritual understanding. It would pertain to a purely physical reality. There is no spirit. Of course, such people usually pontificate "God helps those who helps themselves", and "Oh, I thank god every day", or, 'Judge not lest ye be judged'.

They either give some mental acknowledgment to a deity, which last all of one second, or want to throw the Christianity back in the faces of any who would contradict them on religious grounds, simply telling them to live by their own rules.

Funny enough, such people always find Hinduism, Buddhism or even Islam an option. So much for man being only a body. I have no idea why they think Christianity advocates the meanie approach. I certainly have hardly ever encountered anything but love and acceptance from mainstream Christians.

Did you know Supreme Master Ching Hai advocates absolutely no porn?

Just thought I would mention.

You know what? Fair enough, TT. I have been reading your posts over the past month. I must say you have shown remarkable restraint. A lot of what you put down is interesting. You have done some research.

I for one, don't know much, I never did. I was always the one at school who listened to everyone else. They would talk about the price of peanut butter in Japan, for example. The proliferation of ants under the third stone on the left under a tree in some swamp in Florida. That sort of thing. I don't know how folk do the find it here thing to hotlink. No clue. Some day when I have time I will find out. If I remember.

What I do know, though, is what comes from the heart.

This is the part where I get mighty peeved. When one talks of what one knows, oneself and countless others. When one perceives a reality beyond this one, then tries to cast these pearls before the, shall we say, to put it delicately, people, of this board, only to get them trampled upon, then to have these same folk turn around and tear into one, even some having the bravado to be so sure there is no God that they feel free to curse Him to His Face, then, dear TT, one wants to simply sit back and cry.

If one can talk about things sanely without the usual repartee, sarcasm and stubborn refusal to open one's minds, at all, then, maybe, one can have a point to start from.

If one were to do a spot of research, believe just a little, like, mustard seed little, it would be a point to start from. One needs to begin somewhere. It is not the final destination that is so important, as the journey that is interesting and the things one learns along the way.

Christianity is a learning process. The Zulu have a word, "siyafunda", we are learning. One needs to start somewhere, though, right? All the answers do not come all at once.




* I like the "sexual proclivities". I don't know whether you saw the film "Intolerable Cruelty" with George Clooney and Catherine Zeta Jones? It is from the court scene.
 
^^Your leaps in logic are truly Evil Knievelesque. It is Will E that is damning for people for what they do. All True Transsexual is doing is pointing out the hypocrisy of damning people because of a strict interpretation of the Bible when he also chooses to ignore other passages such as “Do not covet thy neighbors wife” and avoid temptations of the flesh.
 

Will E Worm

Conspiracy...
That's right avoid the questions and bash the Christians. :tongue:

1. If you say porn is evil, then you agree that there is good and there is evil. Which to choose?

If porn is evil, what are you doing here?

2. This board does promote all these things you mentioned, but it also has some good sites. If you look around a bit you will see there are celebrity sites, sportswoman sites, there are forums where funny pictures are shown, there is a games section, stuff like that.

3. Here is a question for you. Why do people who love porn always haul out "Judge not lest ye be judged" when confronted about it? If it is evil, then why do people go for it? At what point does the evil stop? Is war alright simply because people say so? I mean, maybe the Saddam Hussein's of this world were right, and we were wrong. Who are we to judge, right? You can't judge one and not the other.

By the way, Jesus did tell the disciples they can judge. (John 7:24).

4. If you don't believe in God or any "god" then why judge people?
If you don't believe in that person's deity then you cannot use said deity against them. ;)

Just use more excuses to bash Christians or anyone that believes differently than you do.
 
That's right avoid the questions and bash the Christians. :tongue:

1. If you say porn is evil, then you agree that there is good and there is evil. Which to choose?

If porn is evil, what are you doing here?

2. This board does promote all these things you mentioned, but it also has some good sites. If you look around a bit you will see there are celebrity sites, sportswoman sites, there are forums where funny pictures are shown, there is a games section, stuff like that.

3. Here is a question for you. Why do people who love porn always haul out "Judge not lest ye be judged" when confronted about it? If it is evil, then why do people go for it? At what point does the evil stop? Is war alright simply because people say so? I mean, maybe the Saddam Hussein's of this world were right, and we were wrong. Who are we to judge, right? You can't judge one and not the other.

By the way, Jesus did tell the disciples they can judge. (John 7:24).

4. If you don't believe in God or any "god" then why judge people?
If you don't believe in that person's deity then you cannot use said deity against them. ;)

Just use more excuses to bash Christians or anyone that believes differently than you do.


Unlike you, Will E Worm, I am not dodging this questions. And unlike you, I rather answer back with some well-thought out explanation of what I'm thinking. I have not have the time to do that yet, or have found other things more interesting at the moment.

I am just asking you for some explanations for this questions that I asked. How is that bashing? Just because you don't even understand what you believe in, doesn't mean I am insulting you and other so called Christians for raising this questions.

Furthermore, I grew up in Christianity and as someone who was raised with this religion, I have even more rights to raise this questions that don't make any sense to me.
 

Will E Worm

Conspiracy...
Unlike you, Will E Worm, I am not dodging this questions. And unlike you, I rather answer back with some well-thought out explanation of what I'm thinking. I have not have the time to do that yet, or have found other things more interesting at the moment.

I am just asking you for some explanations for this questions that I asked. How is that bashing? Just because you don't even understand what you believe in, doesn't mean I am insulting you and other so called Christians for raising this questions.

Furthermore, I grew up in Christianity and as someone who was raised with this religion, I have even more rights to raise this questions that don't make any sense to me.

I've already addressed you and a lot of people on here.
Comment #76

That's right avoid the questions and bash the Christians.

If porn is evil, what are you doing here?

If you don't believe in God or any "god" then why judge people?
If you don't believe in that person's deity then you cannot use said deity against them.

Just use more excuses to bash Christians or anyone that believes differently than you do.
 
I assume you mean to ask: "Why are you on a porn message board that talks about porn?"

Well, I guess Will believes it's a tough job, but someone's got to do it.

Do you think porn is evil?

Do I think porn itself is evil? No. Do I think there is evil in porn? Yes. Mainly because the way sometimes women and other groups are portrayed which is extremely degrading.


This board does promote all these things you mentioned, but it also has some good sites. If you look around a bit you will see there are celebrity sites, sportswoman sites, there are forums where funny pictures are shown, there is a games section, stuff like that. Petra and her crew have done a phenomenal job over the many decades that she has been working here. The many, many decades. Just kidding!

If you say porn is evil, then you agree that there is good and there is evil. Which to choose?

If porn is evil, what are you doing here?

I have never said porn is evil. Quote me if I'm lying. All I'm saying is that it goes against the teaching of Christianity, because it promotes fornication, adultery, unredroductive sex just for pleasure, etc.

Of course this site has other things that are not related to porn, however, if one was only interested in those things one would be visiting other sites that are mainly about that. Not a site that is mainly about porn, so obviously there is some interest in porn.

Here is a question for you. Why do people who love porn always haul out "Judge not lest ye be judged" when confronted about it? If it is evil, then why do people go for it? At what point does the evil stop? Is war alright simply because people say so? I mean, maybe the Saddam Hussein's of this world were right, and we were wrong. Who are we to judge, right? You can't judge one and not the other.

Actually because of people judging others is that we have dictatorships, opression, wars, conflicts etc. One thing leads to the other.

However, judging and prejudging are two different things. In order to be able to judge, you have to be objective, not biased. So you can try to judge all you want, but please, PLEASE, don't be a damn hypocrite about it. Because if you are, then its really prejudice what we are talking about, not objective judgement. And at least, if you are so willing to judge others, be able to defend your conclusions logically.


By the way, Jesus did tell the disciples they can judge. (John 7:24).

I understand people may want to indulge their sexual proclivities* without humiliation, but maybe there is a right and a wrong. If one points the wrong out, one is 'judging'. If you say, 'cool', you are accepted by the masses.

I assume you say this in reference to gays since this is what the subject is about. Yes, there is right and wrong, and perhaps something inbetween. But if you say something is wrong, then give a logical explanation for it, and once again don't be a hypocrite about it. Pointing out the hypocricy and irrationality in the beliefs of this people who accuse others as wrong is only fair and just.

Also, why should gays be humiliated for the way they have sex when it is with another consenting adult? It's their bodies, their lifes, so definitely yes, who the hell do others think they are to pass judgement? Do you. I'm not particularly refering to you with this statement, however.

Then the dissidents are the religio-fanatic hardcore nutjobs who are full of hate and lack all type of reason.

One would certainly have a materialistic, human centric, temporal view of life. This, then, would exclude any sort of spiritual understanding. It would pertain to a purely physical reality. There is no spirit. Of course, such people usually pontificate "God helps those who helps themselves", and "Oh, I thank god every day", or, 'Judge not lest ye be judged'.

They either give some mental acknowledgment to a deity, which last all of one second, or want to throw the Christianity back in the faces of any who would contradict them on religious grounds, simply telling them to live by their own rules.

Funny enough, such people always find Hinduism, Buddhism or even Islam an option. So much for man being only a body. I have no idea why they think Christianity advocates the meanie approach. I certainly have hardly ever encountered anything but love and acceptance from mainstream Christians.

Did you know Supreme Master Ching Hai advocates absolutely no porn?

Just thought I would mention.

I don't think Christians are all bad, and I don't think other religions are any better either. Some make a little bit more sense than others though, but that's about it. The problem others and I have is when people use religion to create division, force their self-righteousness on other people, even moreso when they can't even explain or undertand their fundamental beliefs.

You know what? Fair enough, TT. I have been reading your posts over the past month. I must say you have shown remarkable restraint. A lot of what you put down is interesting. You have done some research.

I for one, don't know much, I never did. I was always the one at school who listened to everyone else. They would talk about the price of peanut butter in Japan, for example. The proliferation of ants under the third stone on the left under a tree in some swamp in Florida. That sort of thing. I don't know how folk do the find it here thing to hotlink. No clue. Some day when I have time I will find out. If I remember.

What I do know, though, is what comes from the heart.

This is the part where I get mighty peeved. When one talks of what one knows, oneself and countless others. When one perceives a reality beyond this one, then tries to cast these pearls before the, shall we say, to put it delicately, people, of this board, only to get them trampled upon, then to have these same folk turn around and tear into one, even some having the bravado to be so sure there is no God that they feel free to curse Him to His Face, then, dear TT, one wants to simply sit back and cry.

You are being a little romantic here, and hopefully, speaking allegorically.
I can't say there is no God/s just like I can't affirm there is, although I believe there is something beyond our limits. But I don't undertand how me or others here have "curse Him to His Face" merely by raising some questions about basic tenets of the Christian and other Abrahamic religions. If you can't understand and explain what you believe in, then there is a serious problem.


If one can talk about things sanely without the usual repartee, sarcasm and stubborn refusal to open one's minds, at all, then, maybe, one can have a point to start from.

If one were to do a spot of research, believe just a little, like, mustard seed little, it would be a point to start from. One needs to begin somewhere. It is not the final destination that is so important, as the journey that is interesting and the things one learns along the way.

Christianity is a learning process. The Zulu have a word, "siyafunda", we are learning. One needs to start somewhere, though, right? All the answers do not come all at once.

* I like the "sexual proclivities". I don't know whether you saw the film "Intolerable Cruelty" with George Clooney and Catherine Zeta Jones? It is from the court scene.

Most religious people want others to "believe just a little," but do they care to believe others points of views, especially when it questions their mere authenticity? Most do not care to have an open mind about other possibilies.
 

Will E Worm

Conspiracy...
Do I think porn itself is evil? No. Do I think there is evil in porn? Yes. Mainly because the way sometimes women and other groups are portrayed which is extremely degrading.

It's not "degrading."

PETA uses and degrades women more than anything.

These females sign contracts to perform in films.

They aren't force into porn. They may have regrets, but that's because they didn't think before hand.

unredroductive sex just for pleasure, etc.

A female doesn't have a child every time they have sex. You should know that. Read Song of Solomon, sex is to be pleasurable.
 
I've already addressed you and a lot of people on here.
Comment #76

That's right avoid the questions and bash the Christians.

If porn is evil, what are you doing here?

If you don't believe in God or any "god" then why judge people?
If you don't believe in that person's deity then you cannot use said deity against them.

Just use more excuses to bash Christians or anyone that believes differently than you do.

This is what your reply was:

----------"Oh, no "she."

It's obvious you have never read the Bible.

We will never see eye to eye on this.

Just bow out gracefully. "------------

Is this is your way of addressing people?

Please tell me how am I BASHING Christians, by raising this questions?
LOL. That reminds me of when I was a kid, and was told that if I questioned anything in the bible, that it was a blasphemy, and I should feel guilty about.
I guess that's the way religion manipulates people so they stop thinking.

I never said that I believe porn is evil, what I said was that it goes against the teaching of Christianity, AGAIN, because it promotes fornication, adultery, unreproductive sex acts and all other sorts of "sin."
So actually the question is, what is you, who claim to be a Christian doing here?? Can't even try stop sinning youself, but want to judge others who you believe are sinning, just in a different way than you are. :rolleyes:
 
It's not "degrading."

PETA uses and degrades women more than anything.

These females sign contracts to perform in films.

They aren't force into porn. They may have regrets, but that's because they didn't think before hand.



A female doesn't have a child every time they have sex. You should know that. Read Song of Solomon, sex is to be pleasurable.


I'm not saying porn actors are being degraded. I said porn sometimes portrays acts that are degrading to women and other groups. Such as rape, treating women like garbage, etc. It's all an act, but is degrading. And I only mentioned those acts because I am not really religious, I'm sure the list would be a lot longer if I was.

Is nice that you cut and paste not even complete sentences, and then say I'm the one trying to avoid the questions. You as a Cristian should know that the bible condems fornication, coveting another man's wife, etc. When you desire and support a porn actor who's having sex with multiple partners, or may be married, what do you think you are doing??
 

Will E Worm

Conspiracy...
I never said that I believe porn is evil, what I said was that it goes against the teaching of Christianity,

If porn isn't evil then why do you have a problem with anyone being here?

If you're not a Christian and you don't believe in God then you can't use Him against Christians. You can't use what you don't believe in.


I'm not saying porn actors are being degraded. I said porn sometimes portrays acts that are degrading to women and other groups.

For something to be degrading it would have to be done to that person.
Obviously it is not, therefore it isn't degrading.
They sign up, they are paid.

It ends there with payment to the performer.
 
If porn isn't evil then why do you have a problem with anyone being here?
:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

I don't care what people do, or what sites they visit. I'm just pointing our your hypocrisy as a Christian here.


If you're not a Christian and you don't believe in God then you can't use Him against Christians. You can't use what you don't believe in.

??????????????????????? I'm using God against Christians???:rolleyes:




For something to be degrading it would have to be done to that person.
Obviously it is not, therefore it isn't degrading.
They sign up, they are paid.

It ends there with payment to the performer.

It's degrading because of the message it sends. But you are free to believe whatever you want. I just answered the question of if I think porn is evil, and I said not in itself, but that it contains acts that I consider evil. I also stated that porn goes against the teachings of Christianity and stated the reasons why. Keep dodging them...typical. :thefinger
 

Wainkerr99

Closed Account
TrueTranssexual;3556088 I have never said porn is evil. Quote me if I'm lying. All I'm saying is that it goes against the teaching of Christianity said:
Indeed. Not just Christianity. I have read some posts where boarders have cited other religions as being more tolerant. Truth is, those religions aren't. Would you say fornication etc is evil? Maybe if the people who made this porn had some sort of moral compass a bit more, who knows what could happen.[/COLOR]

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Of course this site has other things that are not related to porn, however, if one was only interested in those things one would be visiting other sites that are mainly about that. Not a site that is mainly about porn, so obviously there is some interest in porn.

So there we go.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Actually because of people judging others is that we have dictatorships, opression, wars, conflicts etc. One thing leads to the other. However, judging and prejudging are two different things. In order to be able to judge, you have to be objective, not biased. So you can try to judge all you want, but please, PLEASE, don't be a damn hypocrite about it. Because if you are, then its really prejudice what we are talking about, not objective judgement. And at least, if you are so willing to judge others, be able to defend your conclusions logically.

Naturally.
Maybe if women were the boss more, wars would be reduced. Have you ever noticed how women can resolve disputes just by talking? Imagine.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

I assume you say this in reference to gays since this is what the subject is about. Yes, there is right and wrong, and perhaps something inbetween. But if you say something is wrong, then give a logical explanation for it, and once again don't be a hypocrite about it. Pointing out the hypocricy and irrationality in the beliefs of this people who accuse others as wrong is only fair and just.

Also, why should gays be humiliated for the way they have sex when it is with another consenting adult? It's their bodies, their lifes, so definitely yes, who the hell do others think they are to pass judgement? Do you. I'm not particularly refering to you with this statement, however.

I don't think Christians are all bad, and I don't think other religions are any better either. Some make a little bit more sense than others though, but that's about it. The problem others and I have is when people use religion to create division, force their self-righteousness on other people, even moreso when they can't even explain or undertand their fundamental beliefs.

I have to point out that whereas there are some instances of churches going quite batty about gays, the usual stance is to 'hate the sin, but love the sinner.' This refers to everyone as "all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God." Jesus Himself reprimanded some chap who pointed out about Herod. Jesus' point was whether you were Herod or just some ordinary dude you still need to find your way home.


You are being a little romantic here, and hopefully, speaking allegorically.
I can't say there is no God/s just like I can't affirm there is, although I believe there is something beyond our limits. But I don't undertand how me or others here have "curse Him to His Face" merely by raising some questions about basic tenets of the Christian and other Abrahamic religions. If you can't understand and explain what you believe in, then there is a serious problem.

No, not you, TT. I don't want to go there but it was someone else a while back.


Most religious people want others to "believe just a little," but do they care to believe others points of views, especially when it questions their mere authenticity? Most do not care to have an open mind about other possibilies.


My point exactly. Folk who go to Church usually go on a learning curve. Part of that is attending small groups, where one hopefully learns to treat others in and outside the church kind of like family. You must know Christians come from all walks of life, TT. I don't think one can offer up answers without really understanding another's point of view. I hope I am understanding you right.

It is kind of like standing outside the University doors grumbling about never receiving any new knowledge, when they never bother to attend classes. One can have an open mind about other possibilities. I mean, I have an open mind about evolution, prehistoric man vs the Creation story, Noah's Flood vs the Incan report of the same thing, etc. However, I am not going to take everything I know to be true, say to myself, Hmm, maybe I should try Buddha, or Mohammed, or the guys who now are holier than Mohammed, or the new guys who are holier than the recent guys who were holier than Mohammed, or whatever, and put aside all I know and believe, actually,not believe any more, know to be true about God, just because of having an 'open mind'.

Does this make sense to you?

I can read about a comet dropping a few chemicals on Earth, and say, you know what, that guy I prayed for who stood up and walked even though he was flatline dead for a few minutes, and then told me how horrible hell is, must be all a big hoax, or something. THAT'S IT!!!!! A rock dropped onto the edge of a glacier millions of years ago and suddenly life started. Let me go and trumpet my new found open mindedness on Freeones.

Please don't think I am being sarcastic toward you. Have you noticed how when one quotes another person, it gives the feeling like the person you are quoting is some kind of conspiracy theorist? One just takes excerpts, which suddenly seem all ominous. :1orglaugh

 

Will E Worm

Conspiracy...
:1orglaugh:1orglaugh:1orglaugh

I don't care what people do, or what sites they visit. I'm just pointing our your hypocrisy as a Christian here.

You mean your hypocrisy. As you believe porn is not an evil.
If it's not an evil in your eyes then you can't judge someone else for looking.

??????????????????????? I'm using God against Christians???:rolleyes:

You're trying to.

It's degrading because of the message it sends.

Lots of things send a bad message.

It doesn't mean they are degrading.

PETA sends a horrible message and degrade women more than any group.

They say meat is bad and it isn't.

PETA uses women to forward their agenda, by using women for their looks and in turn using them like pieces of meat for their own twisted agenda.

PETA's Inhumane Treatment Of Women
 
Damn, I really must have some restraining in order not to be a real smart ass with some people. :eek: :rolleyes:

None of the questions I originally asked were explained, only mere acussations for me raising them, the subject had to be further twisted into whether porn is evil and now how PETA degrades women.
Answering questions with more questions, very vaguely, or just with another subject altogether...it's getting boring now.:sleep:
 

Wainkerr99

Closed Account
So you can pick and choose which of the Old Testament commands that you want to adhere to?

No, luddie.

Acts 10:9-19



9 About noon the following day as they were on their journey and approaching the city, Peter went up on the roof to pray.
10 He became hungry and wanted something to eat, and while the meal was being prepared, he fell into a trance.
11 He saw heaven opened and something like a large sheet being let down to earth by its four corners. ”
12 It contained all kinds of four-footed animals, as well as reptiles of the earth and birds of the air.
13 Then a voice told him, “Get up, Peter. Kill and eat.”
14 “Surely not, Lord!” Peter replied. “I have never eaten anything impure or unclean.”
15 The voice spoke to him a second time, “Do not call anything impure that God has made clean.”
16 This happened three times, and immediately the sheet was taken back to heaven.
17 While Peter was wondering about the meaning of the vision, the men sent by Cornelius found out where Simon’s house was and stopped at the gate.
18 They called out, asking if Simon who was known as Peter was staying there.
19 While Peter was still thinking about the vision, the Spirit said to him, “Simon, three men are looking for you.
20 So get up and go downstairs. Do not hesitate to go with them, for I have sent them.”


I am just putting this down for easy reading. I hope no-one hauls out the whatever thing it is called when you quote verses from a Bible or book on a forum. I forget the term. People get really huffy about it.

I would hate to sin against the honourable members of this board by doing something evil like that. Bad Wainkerr. BAD Wainkerr99.
 

Supafly

Retired Mod
Bronze Member
Hey Wainker,

you, a lot of aothers and me are seemingly wasting way too much of time and energy on trying to making sense of Friday's rants.

If I am not completely mistaken, there is the possibility to put him on the ignore list and thus not having to endure him any longer.

I for one will probably put him on my list today.
 

Supafly

Retired Mod
Bronze Member
Hey Wainker,

you, a lot of aothers and me are seemingly wasting way too much of time and energy on trying to making sense of Friday's rants.

If I am not completely mistaken, there is the possibility to put him on the ignore list and thus not having to endure him any longer.

I for one will probably put him on my list today.

Sorry, I didn't mean Friday, I ment Will E Worm :1orglaugh
 
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