Legalizing marijuana could help California get out of debt

[Facetious]

Prop 18 probably doesn't when it comes to marijuana as that one pertains to safe drinking water or something.

BTW, why is your plane passing gas?

 

[Mauser98k]

with as much debt as we're in, that wouldn't even scrape the surface.

 

[Hot Mega]

with as much debt as we're in, that wouldn't even scrape the surface.

Aside from the fact that it's senseless that it's illegal in a world where cigarettes and alcohol is legal...we wouldn't be wasting billions trying and jailing people for it nor billions more working up counter operations to interdict it and we would be realizing tax revenue from it's sale.

So maybe you're right but it's a start.

 

[thegame2119]

I'd probably start smoking pot again if it were legalized, but this prop. is pretty pointless. Even if it passes weed would still be illegal under federal law, which means the feds could still arrest you for buying/selling/using it. It also means that anyone who makes income off of it would be reluctant to report it on their taxes.

I think the bill needs to be rewritten or we should just wait until it's federally legalized.

 

[D-rock]

with as much debt as we're in, that wouldn't even scrape the surface.

A lot of people would be surprised by the cost it takes to keep people incarcerated and to prosecute them in the first place. If you add up all of it that had to be done because of laws against marijuana it's a substantial amount.

 

[ForumModeregulator]

The only problem with trying to make a profit is that obviously the people makin lots of money are going to simply undercut the federal rates and sell for cheaper. And if its cheaper in the first place, all these outrageous figures we see now (value of pot) are going to disappear as the supply in a legal market increases dramatically. The black market is still going to exist. Debt, and large amounts of revenue should not be expected from legalization.

But awesome parties, and tons of super cheap danks flooding the market should be.

 

[bustybbwlover]

pot being the major source of income for the drug cartels is another reason legalization would be helpful

 

[ForumModeregulator]

pot being the major source of income for the drug cartels is another reason legalization would be helpful

hmmmm...id say cocaine and opiates make the most money...

this is a lousy reason to legalize...

 

[bustybbwlover]

i didn't mean it should be the only reason just another reason it'd be helpful (i think the fact that it's much less detrimental than alcohol is reason enough) and as to the cartel income

marijuana, which now earns cartels about $8.5 billion or about 61 percent of their annual estimated income of $13.8 billion. Cocaine sales earn the cartels about $3.9 billion, and methamphetamine about $1 billion, he said.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/topstories/2008-02-21-2221217072_x.htm

 

[larss]

maybe it would be better to just keep things the way they are now so as to keep prices reasonable :dunno:

Prices are not reasonable now, due to the fact that it is illegal. Legalisation would bring down the prices drastically as it is not expensive as such to grow, any more than any other crop. You could probably sell the stuff in the same was as tobacco for around the same price, and the tax on that would be substantial.
Remember that most of the profit on weed goes to the drug cartels, and not the growers.

What's to stop people from growing it themselves and paying nothing?

As with alcohol and cigarettes, it is more convenient to buy it ready packed.

So you buy cheap tax-free gear in surrounding states, then hop over into Cali and smoke it legally. Genius.

The so called cheap tax-free gear would not be cheap - see my first comment above.

 

[HELLRAISER]

Decriminalize and legalize all drugs rather than the opposite by pouring trillions of taxpayers money to fund the war on drugs, incarcerate and cause prisons to overflow with non-violent drug offenders and ruining their careers by doing this, and using the money saved to really rehabilitate drug addicts

 

[ForumModeregulator]

i didn't mean it should be the only reason just another reason it'd be helpful (i think the fact that it's much less detrimental than alcohol is reason enough) and as to the cartel income
http://www.usatoday.com/news/topstories/2008-02-21-2221217072_x.htm

They should legalize marijuana based off of the medical facts only. Reduction of Cartel profits is pure speculation and is highly unlikely that it would help take down their organizations.

Prices are not reasonable now, due to the fact that it is illegal. Legalisation would bring down the prices drastically as it is not expensive as such to grow, any more than any other crop. You could probably sell the stuff in the same was as tobacco for around the same price, and the tax on that would be substantial.
Remember that most of the profit on weed goes to the drug cartels, and not the growers.

Yes, as I spoke earlier briefly and to highlight the point...yes marijuana would be cheaper. But if taxed heavily its almost guaranteed that people are going to continue to buy an unregulated product from the sources they already have now. These people who run this business are not dumb, and they will simply lower their price (still tax free) than what the state or federal price. Undercutting will guarantee a profit for them still, and customers will obviously oblige if it means a cheaper product. Legalizing it will NOT take away the business.

Decriminalize and legalize all drugs rather than the opposite by pouring trillions of taxpayers money to fund the war on drugs, incarcerate and cause prisons to overflow with non-violent drug offenders and ruining their careers by doing this, and using the money saved to really rehabilitate drug addicts

Really ? thats the answer? It would be absolutely insane and irresponsible for government to legalize all drugs. I dont care how much of a waste the war on drugs is. This is just a terrible answer. Not for morals or anything, but purely on a health basis. Marijuana I could see. But the day you can go to your local walmart and pick up some mushrooms and acid would be (although really fucking fun) chaos.

 

[bustybbwlover]

i'd be shocked if the loss of some of their weed income 'took down' the cartels (this is only california after all) but the fact that it would affect them is unquestionable and a check in the plus column for legalization, in my opinion

 

[thegame2119]

Marijuana I could see. But the day you can go to your local walmart and pick up some mushrooms and acid would be (although really fucking fun) chaos.

Um... I can get mushrooms at any of my local grocery stores.

Wait... is there something about 'shrooms that I don't know?

 

[HELLRAISER]

They should legalize marijuana based off of the medical facts only. Reduction of Cartel profits is pure speculation and is highly unlikely that it would help take down their organizations.

Legalization and decriminalization of drugs would certainly reduce cartel profits

Yes, as I spoke earlier briefly and to highlight the point...yes marijuana would be cheaper. But if taxed heavily its almost guaranteed that people are going to continue to buy an unregulated product from the sources they already have now. These people who run this business are not dumb, and they will simply lower their price (still tax free) than what the state or federal price. Undercutting will guarantee a profit for them still, and customers will obviously oblige if it means a cheaper product. Legalizing it will NOT take away the business.

High taxation wouldn't lead to people buying from their current sources. They'd grow their own marijuana without fear of arrest, seizure and imprisonment.

Really ? thats the answer? It would be absolutely insane and irresponsible for government to legalize all drugs. I dont care how much of a waste the war on drugs is. This is just a terrible answer. Not for morals or anything, but purely on a health basis. Marijuana I could see. But the day you can go to your local walmart and pick up some mushrooms and acid would be (although really fucking fun) chaos.

What's absolutely insane and irresponsible is for you to state opinions without backing them up with citing credible sources, experts and facts. What's also is terribly insane and stupid as pissing in the wind is for fear mongering ignorant Americans to justify the prohibition of all drugs and the trillions of dollars pissed away to criminalize non-violent drug offenders. Wake up to reality so you can realize that there's already chaos due to the unnecessary prohibition and wasteful spending of taxpayers money on the war on drugs.

 

[Hot Mega]

What's to stop people from growing it themselves and paying nothing?

There's already precedence for how to deal with this.

Theoretically if you buy the plant seeding from somewhere you pay the tax like any other plant seeds you'd buy and growing it for your own personal use would be no different from growing your own tomatoes.

You would also regulate who sells it by licensing professional growers to produce and distribute it as we do in licensing professional distillers.

They should legalize marijuana based off of the medical facts only. Reduction of Cartel profits is pure speculation and is highly unlikely that it would help take down their organizations.

Maybe not...ending prohibition didn't take down liquor manufactures but it did take liquor off the black market and the producers then paid duties and other taxes instead of keeping all the money in the black market.

Yes, as I spoke earlier briefly and to highlight the point...yes marijuana would be cheaper. But if taxed heavily its almost guaranteed that people are going to continue to buy an unregulated product from the sources they already have now. These people who run this business are not dumb, and they will simply lower their price (still tax free) than what the state or federal price. Undercutting will guarantee a profit for them still, and customers will obviously oblige if it means a cheaper product. Legalizing it will NOT take away the business.

Again..the major point would be decriminalization...not end the business cycle. The business will find it's way like tobacco, alcohol, etc.

Really ? thats the answer? It would be absolutely insane and irresponsible for government to legalize all drugs. I dont care how much of a waste the war on drugs is. This is just a terrible answer. Not for morals or anything, but purely on a health basis. Marijuana I could see. But the day you can go to your local walmart and pick up some mushrooms and acid would be (although really fucking fun) chaos.

Why would it be insane? Theoretically people who don't do those kinds of drugs now wouldn't go do them just because they are legal as with it being illegal now hasn't stopped those inclined to.

 

[larss]

Yes, as I spoke earlier briefly and to highlight the point...yes marijuana would be cheaper. But if taxed heavily its almost guaranteed that people are going to continue to buy an unregulated product from the sources they already have now. These people who run this business are not dumb, and they will simply lower their price (still tax free) than what the state or federal price. Undercutting will guarantee a profit for them still, and customers will obviously oblige if it means a cheaper product. Legalizing it will NOT take away the business.

Of course. People will go to the illegal distributors instead of the legal ones just because they will have to pay tax - just like everyone does when they buy tobacco and alcohol.

No, people will go to the easier, legal source rather than the illegal more dangerous one.

 

[ForumModeregulator]

Legalization and decriminalization of drugs would certainly reduce cartel profits



High taxation wouldn't lead to people buying from their current sources. They'd grow their own marijuana without fear of arrest, seizure and imprisonment.



What's absolutely insane and irresponsible is for you to state opinions without backing them up with citing credible sources, experts and facts. What's also is terribly insane and stupid as pissing in the wind is for fear mongering ignorant Americans to justify the prohibition of all drugs and the trillions of dollars pissed away to criminalize non-violent drug offenders. Wake up to reality so you can realize that there's already chaos due to the unnecessary prohibition and wasteful spending of taxpayers money on the war on drugs.

1. We were discussing just marijuana, so in reality only legalizing marijuana would not have a significant outcome against bankrupting a multibillion dollar org...

2. My point is that the black market legalized drugs is going to recognize that in order to make profits (which they will) they need to make their products cheaper than the government prices. Once they do, people will buy from them instead undermining the whole "drugs will raise the government money" bullshit.

3. You talk about just the "non violent" offenders. Let me remind you that where there is crack cocaine, you will much higher density of VIOLENT crime. That is a fact. This is not an issue about fear. This is an issue (in my mind) in the safety of the public. Do you really want the government to just say "fuck the health and wellbeing" of its people? Legalizing and regulating drugs such as meth, cocaine, heroin..that would be insane. Its time for you to wake up and realize that drug related crimes are not all just the innocent little hippie smokin a joint.

"Studies show a correlation between drug use and crime - violent crimes such as homicides, assaults and domestic violence. Why is this? It's quite simple - drugs cause violent behavior.

A report in the Journal of the American Medical Association (7/6/94) reports that cocaine use is linked to high rates of homicide in New York City and that "homicide victims may have provoked violence through irritability, paranoid thinking or verbal and physical aggression which are known to be pharmacologic effects of cocaine."

Data from the National Institute of Justice (U.S. Department of Justice) Drug Use Forecasting (DUF) program underscore the crime-drugs link. Of a sample of males arrested in 23 U.S. cities in 1993, the percent testing positive for at least one drug in the DUF survey ranged from 54% in Omaha to 81% in Chicago. Among female arrestees, the percent testing positive for any drug in 20 cities ranged from 42% in San Antonio to 83% in Manhattan.

The violent behavior caused by drugs won't magically stop because the drugs are legal. Legal PCP isn't going to make a person less violent than illegally purchased PCP. So, crimes committed because of drugs will increase as the number of drug users increase with the legalization of drugs. The psychopathic behavior that drugs cause will not somehow magically stop because drugs are legal." http://www.gargaro.com/drugs.html

This isnt ^ exactly how I feel, but it captures most of it...

REMEMBER drugs are not bad because of "the man" making them illegal, they are BAD because they are BAD for you. What the hell is so hard to understand about that? I dont need facts to tell you that it would be absolutely pointless to legalize all drugs. More drug users, will mean more rehab centers and taxpayer money going towards more drug programs. We wouldnt be wasting our money fighting crime, wed be wasting our money on the waves of addicts.

 

[larss]

2. My point is that the black market legalized drugs is going to recognize that in order to make profits (which they will) they need to make their products cheaper than the government prices. Once they do, people will buy from them instead undermining the whole "drugs will raise the government money" bullshit.

No, most people will not buy from illegal sources if there is a legal one available. They do not do it now with alcohol and tobacco, so why would weed be any different?

 

[ForumModeregulator]

First off, I think many forget I support drug usage...I enjoy it actually. But that being said from an experienced view point...drugs are still bad for your health! Marijuana is the ONLY drug, I feel should be legalized/decriminalized.
so just gettin that straight...when im talkin about the other drugs, i really mean drugs other than MJ...

There's already precedence for how to deal with this.

You would also regulate who sells it by licensing professional growers to produce and distribute it as we do in licensing professional distillers.

Maybe not...ending prohibition didn't take down liquor manufactures but it did take liquor off the black market and the producers then paid duties and other taxes instead of keeping all the money in the black market.

Why would it be insane? Theoretically people who don't do those kinds of drugs now wouldn't go do them just because they are legal as with it being illegal now hasn't stopped those inclined to.

No there isnt. Alcohol was 1 substance. Legalizing all drugs...well that list is quite longer, and involves many different drugs that have individually unique effects. One person can smoke cannabis and drive a car. You cant really drive a car when your loaded up on heroin...TRUST ME...

Giving a harmful drug to a "professional" is not going to make the drug safer. That is my point. These drugs are dangerous. And that's why they are illegal. Is cannabis really bad? meh...not really. But if you were to manufacture ecstasy tabs and give those away...jesus christ think about the overdoses and addictions that would be seen. Easy access to harmful drugs, THATS why it would be insane. Its already easy enough to get them, making them more readily available is not a good choice.

Of course. People will go to the illegal distributors instead of the legal ones just because they will have to pay tax - just like everyone does when they buy tobacco and alcohol.

No, people will go to the easier, legal source rather than the illegal more dangerous one.

Dont you see the craziness in your logic? "than the illegal more dangerous one". NOOOOO...You can not make PCP, or Crack any less dangerous, just because its manufactured "legally". Its going to make no difference. Those drugs are dangerous anyway you serve em up. THATS THE POINT. These drugs are unhealthy. And in the end, drug users are NOT going to buy their drugs from the government, when they realize how expensive its going to be, when their local dealer still has the same stuff at a tax free (just as convenient to get) much lower price.