It's a MYTH - GM autoworkers do NOT make $70/hour !!

[Kil4Thril]

What are plumbers or construction people supposed to use for work? You cant haul a trailer with a Ford Focus as well. F150's have there use, just not for driving you and your briefcase to work. GM, Ford or Chysler should reduce the lines that do not sell and continue reducing the amout of dealers.

I agree with most of your other points. I agree that people who make allot of money justify there own pay scale, but when they look at Union workers they seem aghast at what they make.

I live in a mostly blue collar neighborhood with some White collar mixed in Detroit. Average house is $70-$150,000, Usually have two 4 year old domestic cars or trucks in the driveway, 2.2 kids, kids will have to pay there own way through college, if they go, vacation trip is too Florida in July or Cedar Point, and wife works part time at Kmart. I dont see any silver spoons or gold plated Cadillacs making $40 a hour.

My Grandfather worked at Chrysler and raised 6 kids in a much more affluent area, in which I grew up in. With working wages declining and cost of living, it is much harder to do that these days.

The job bank does need to go and a much reduced health care plan. People like me get fired with 2 weeks pay, not 5 years at 85% of my pay scale. UAW workers should also get a health care plan like most Americans have and have to pay a much as much.

They don't own the dealerships. You apply for a "franchise" as an individual owner, but the corps do not control what happens on the lots. They can influence, but that's about it. Some foreign (and Saturn, I think) makers do own the dealers, and thus have much more sales control.

 

[titsrock]

What are plumbers or construction people supposed to use for work? You cant haul a trailer with a Ford Focus as well. F150's have there use, just not for driving you and your briefcase to work. GM, Ford or Chysler should reduce the lines that do not sell and continue reducing the amout of dealers.

I think Plumbers and Contractors are going to have to buy a smaller, lighter, truck than the F-150. It's going to have to run on whatever fuel solution the semi-truck industry uses. Some city buses run on Propane gas. Maybe Willie Nelson's biodiesel bus is the "work" solution. Maybe a car-truck combo--the ol' El Camino/Ranchera wars come back in a 21st century design...

The F-150 is incredibly popular but it's incredibly inefficient and it's being larded down with SUV "options" like DVD players, leather seats, navigation systems, etc. It may not be feasible anymore. I can see a business case for the GMC brand to "live on" and perhaps GMC will have to take the lead over Ford in delivering "green" commercial vehicles...plus the Japanese.

 

[Donkey Boy]

still $41 an hour is ridiculous.

The hourly wage is only relative to how many hours a week/month work actually occurs.

For instance, I know a guy who is a pilot and his starting hourly wage was $30 per hour.

HOWEVER, Federal Law limits him to 100 hours PER MONTH of work and he is only paid when the airplane is moving...not when he is preparing the aircraft for flight and doing other necessary preflight duties. He is also not paid when he is sitting away from his family at some hotel in Podunk USA missing birthdays, anniverseries, etc.

So the max he can make (before tax) is about $3000 per month or $36000 per year. In reality, his company only schedules him for about 75-80 hours per month so his pay is actually lower.

 

[jedi007gotham]

More about this falsehood here:

http://www.prospect.org/csnc/blogs/...2008&base_name=gm_auto_workers_are_not_paid_7

There is no reason to believe his numbers are any more accurate than the $70 figure, particularly since he has a political point to get across in deflating the numbers (he is on a liberal blog) and doesn't bother to cite his findings.... I personally think the $70 is more accurate... I think unions are for the most part a good thing but one of my friends told me about how a union saved a guy he works with 7 times from getting fired after stealing money from the job 7 times. Some aspects of the unions can really cripple the business and they don't seem to care whether their point is valid or frivolous

 

[mongo18]

Some aspects of the unions can really cripple the business and they don't seem to care whether their point is valid or frivolous

Perfectly put.

 

[titsrock]

I think unions are for the most part a good thing but one of my friends told me about how a union saved a guy he works with 7 times from getting fired after stealing money from the job 7 times. Some aspects of the unions can really cripple the business and they don't seem to care whether their point is valid or frivolous

Does this make any sense? Unions may "shield" members from some things, but they couldn't cover this up. A criminal prosecution would intervene and the Union would cooperate. How does covering up major crimes help the Union?

 

[Funkwerkz]

No, it's not myth. They make $70 an hour but receive only $41. The rest is saved to pay the gasoline of corporate jets and limouzines.

 

[Donkey Boy]

Perfectly put.

+1...and I'm a member of a union.

 

[E-Ann-Hilden]

delete

 

[Facial_King]

There is no reason to believe his numbers are any more accurate than the $70 figure, particularly since he has a political point to get across in deflating the numbers (he is on a liberal blog) and doesn't bother to cite his findings.... I personally think the $70 is more accurate... I think unions are for the most part a good thing but one of my friends told me about how a union saved a guy he works with 7 times from getting fired after stealing money from the job 7 times. Some aspects of the unions can really cripple the business and they don't seem to care whether their point is valid or frivolous

And someone else might not have "a political point to get across" in INFLATING the numbers? The right-wing blogs have been going hog-wild with that $70/hr. figure. Where's your healthy skepticism then???

Unfortunately, I don't think the truth lies somewhere in between; I think the "liberal" media (incl. the New York Times) are irresponsibly using the inflated figure.

More about it here:

http://mediamatters.org/columns/200811250012
http://mediamatters.org/items/200811220004?f=h_top

 

[Facial_King]

Here's an interesting take on the luxurious lifestyle of a GM autoworker:

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2008/nov2008/kand-n27.shtml

 

[tony c]

Here's an interesting take on the luxurious lifestyle of a GM autoworker:

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2008/nov2008/kand-n27.shtml

Still don't want to give my tax dollars to her or the company she works for.
Nice house; nicer than my apartment.

 

[Facial_King]

Still don't want to give my tax dollars to her or the company she works for.
Nice house; nicer than my apartment.

Wow....if that's your standard - not giving your tax dollars to anyone who has a nicer place than you - then I bet you've been in a complete blind rage about all the money that's been larded onto the Wall Street kings, eh?

 

[BlueSpyder]

If time i heared that i thought that couldn't have been right. I heared toyota pays like $40 an hr and there the number car company from what i heared.

 

[maildude]

Here's an interesting take on the luxurious lifestyle of a GM autoworker:

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2008/nov2008/kand-n27.shtml

Postscript: The WSWS sought to contact Andrew Sorkin for this article. We offered to come to his Manhattan apartment to do a profile of the way he lives but he did not reply to our email or phone messages.

Surprise, surprise!

 

[jedi007gotham]

And someone else might not have "a political point to get across" in INFLATING the numbers? The right-wing blogs have been going hog-wild with that $70/hr. figure. Where's your healthy skepticism then???

Unfortunately, I don't think the truth lies somewhere in between; I think the "liberal" media (incl. the New York Times) are irresponsibly using the inflated figure.

More about it here:

http://mediamatters.org/columns/200811250012
http://mediamatters.org/items/200811220004?f=h_top

My point, however, is that although NYT is unquestionably left-leaning, I would give it more legitimacy than a source that overtly specifies its political leanings, whether they be from the left or the right. And I can't trust Media matters, a liberal watchdog group, any more than I would be able to trust an overtly conservative group.

 

[Facial_King]

If you really believe that the New York Times, the same paper that:

1. Currently has far right-wing nut Bill "I've been consistently wrong about everything for at least the last 6-7 years!" Kristol on its op-ed page.
2. Had "reporter" Judith Miller - the one who cheerleaded for the Bush admin's bogus claims that Hussein was getting or had nukes - on its news pages.
3. Printed the story in question that attempts to make GM autoworkers look like whiny, overpaid bums who are causing GM to go under.

If you think that the newspaper that has done that (and MORE that makes the "liberal-bias" claim come off as so much unadulterated horseshit) is "unquestionably left-leaning" then I really don't know what to say.

 

[blackbull1970]

Whats wrong with making a living wage in this country?

Just because China pays their people 50 cents a day and stands over them with a rifle doesnt mean the USA has to do it.

Peace.

 

[Kil4Thril]

40+/hour is WELL above a living wage (except in SoCal or NYC). I know cost of living changes all across the country (my 18/hr job would pay 45+ in CA), but the average is nowhere near what they claim. Most of the plants are built in the lower COL areas (Detroit, MI, Dayton, OH, Louisville, KY, etc).

 

[Facial_King]

$5,000/hr. is also well above a living wage....