It's a MYTH - GM autoworkers do NOT make $70/hour !!

[Will E Worm]

After all deductions, $41 per hour = $1640.00 per 40 hr week . . . not bad.

I know. My father makes around $20-$21 an hour and it's not really enough. Inflation...:thefinger

As long as you're a good worker, your salary should go up.
It's not worth working at all if it doesn't.

My father rarely misses a day of work, he's worth much more than what he makes.

I'd love to win the lottery and give him an early retirement.

 

[Magnet]

Im sure some people there do make 70 bucks an hour. The people who have been there for 20+ years.

I know when I worked there as a temp employee I made aver $22 dollars an hour. No benefits or any of that jazz of course but still.

My Dad has been there for about 8 years or so and he makes around 35 an hour.

GM employee's get a 50 cent raise every 6 months they are there.

 

[titsrock]

Why is it the capitalists have a problem with this wage/hr? So we're going to blame the people who build the cars for the problems with the company Shouldn't some blame go to the Harvard MBAs and Yale JDs who can't figure out how to lead a company to develop products which the consumer wants? You can trim a couple thousand workers from the ranks but shouldn't we also trim a couple thousand white-collar workers too to balance out the purge? What does the average white collar worker make at GM? More than $70/hr?

The Big 3 Auto companies figured out that the American Consumer can be deceived into subsidizing Big 3 "GLOBALIZATION" by buying expensive, worthless, gas-guzzling SUVs. The European Marketplace gets the fuel-efficient, small cars that GM/Ford make, and the U.S. gets the SUV The American consumer subsidizes GM/Ford.

The real plan for the Big 3 SHOULD BE (and Congress needs to make this happen) for Chrysler to be shutdown and liquidated, GM needs to be a 3 Brand Company--Chevrolet (passenger cars), Cadillac (wealthy cars) and GMC (light trucks, work vehicles). GM needs to get rid of Buick, Pontiac, Saturn, Saab. Ford needs to get rid of Mercury and cease the F150 truck. It's too much of a bloated gas-guzzler. The fact that Ford has been trying to turn the F150 into an SUV should've been a clue that the American Consumer is being suckered.

Inorder to absorb the millions of Jobs that will be lost by closing Chrysler and the rest of my ideas...

We need UNIVERSAL HEALTHCARE FOR ALL U.S.CITIZENS and these displaced union workers and white collar execs need to transition into healthcare jobs.

If we just let the Big 3 go away and do nothing...entire towns in states like Michigan, Ohio, Indiana, Illinois will become ghost towns within a year. There will be a 21st Century DUSTBOWL Migration out of these states by millions of people....

We cannot let that happen.

 

[Will E Worm]

Why is it the capitalists have a problem with this wage/hr? So we're going to blame the people who build the cars for the problems with the company Shouldn't some blame go to the Harvard MBAs and Yale JDs who can't figure out how to lead a company to develop products which the consumer wants? You can trim a couple thousand workers from the ranks but shouldn't we also trim a couple thousand white-collar workers too to balance out the purge? What does the average white collar worker make at GM? More than $70/hr?

I don't have a problem with their wage.

I do have a problem with the salaries of CEO's.
They never get the blame and they don't do enough.

Also, they are always in "business meetings". Translation: golf course

It's always the lower workers who are let go.

I agree some of the higher ups should be let go. They are the ones responsible for the product and if the product they said would sale doesn't they should get the pink slips.

 

[Kil4Thril]

Fucking doctors in my area (Louisville, KY metro) don't even make 40+/hour. The line workers at the KY Ford plant sure as hell don't. BUT, this is considered one of the lowest cost-of-living areas.

 

[D-rock]

They may not get paid that much, but they may well cost GM that much, when you consider payroll expenses and FICA. Workers unions are unrealistic and greedy, and have no place in an economy with our levels of unemployment where there is no need for an employer to be trapped into using union only labor. Perhaps if the big 3 told their union workers that they had the option of being paid a wage more comparable to other factory workers in America or being unemployed, they might have a better chance at weathering the storm.

So basically your saying if only they made everybody live at a wage that is below a decent standard of living and is not really even a living wage then they might be all right? Why stop at just what other people in America make. Why not just have them make virtual slave wages that people make in other countries that we have to compete with make, or why don't we just go back to making workers work under 1880s coal mining conditions why we are at it? Maybe we should cut all the pollution and safety standards that other people don't have to follow why we are at it.

...And people wonder why our country is going to hell.

 

[tony c]

It's not a myth - union workers tend to be overly protected by the unions' so much so that accountability for a job not-so-well done doesn't go punished as much as it would in a non-union work shop. How many grievances need to be filed before someone can get released?

I see this everyday where I work. God bless the unions for helping keep people who don't deserve their paycheck "working" 40 hours a week. The same can be said about government employees, but that's a whole other can of nightcrawlers..

Get rid of the union contracts, get rid of a few problems.
It certainly isn't the only thing wrong with Detroit, but it's a start.

They could also use a quarterback, if you catch what I'm throwing at you.

 

[mongo18]

So basically your saying if only they made everybody live at a wage that is below a decent standard of living and is not really even a living wage then they might be all right? Why stop at just what other people in America make. Why not just have them make virtual slave wages that people make in other countries that we have to compete with make, or why don't we just go back to making workers work under 1880s coal mining conditions why we are at it? Maybe we should cut all the pollution and safety standards that other people don't have to follow why we are at it.

...And people wonder why our country is going to hell.

I'm sorry, D-rock, but I can't find anything intelligent in that entire post. What do you consider "not really a living wage"? The unions have gotten it to the point that unskilled workers are making more money standing next to an automated robot for 5 hours a day, than the engineers did who built them. I'm not defending ridiculously huge wages for CEOs, never have nor will, but that's not what this thread is about. It's about workers with average or below skills making many times what workers with the same skills, doing similar jobs elsewhere are making. It's about union greed that ties the hands of these businesses when times are tight. These unions could realize that the ship is sinking, drop all their bullshit and encourage workers to continue to work for reduced pay to make it through, or they could keep demanding all their hard earned bloated benefits and watch it all go down.

 

[titsrock]

GM bought DirectTV and Hughes Aircraft and some other businesses in an attempt to LEAVE the auto business. They would prefer to become a company which sells something for a lot of money but manufactures nothing. Some sort of fee collecting service provider company...kind of like a cross between Time Warner and PayPal.

There is some sort of class warfare upon America. The wages of a union worker get the BUZZ treatment and "general scorn" but the wages and work ethic of a banker or real estate agent or oil company employee do not warrant such "examination"....

Hmmm.

 

[Dean Wormer]

The following is the key part of the whole discussion.

How does the NYT get from $41 to $70? Well the trick is to add in GM's legacy costs, the pension and health care costs for retired workers. These legacy costs are a serious expense for GM, but this is not money being paid to current workers. The person on the line in 2008 is not benefiting from these legacy costs.

While it is true that the current workers are not getting $70 per hour the total cost of ALL the labor expenses, including retirees, is factored in when arriving at the $70 number.

 

[Facetious]

I'd just like to know why the Chrysler Board of Directorship has chosen a "Mr Golden Parachute" if there ever was one, in Mr. Bob Nardelli, a guy who set up his very own $210 Million exit / payout as he resigned from the rank of Home Depot CEO.

Story

 

[Kil4Thril]

Nardelli (cocksucker) got 255 million (cocksucker) to be FIRED from Home Depot (cocksucker). I worked there at the time, and the entirety of the company thought it was worth the money (cocksucker). He actually should have been dragged naked behind one of the lumber department fork lifts (cocksucker).

 

[young_guns]

52/hr

 

[Baill Inneraora]

The 1st and best reform to help the american companies be more competetive would be to scrap our health care system and abolish the "for profit" insurance companies.None of the other countries in the world are saddled with this double per person cost system and nothing will be really fixed untill we deal with that.
Unions are a vital element for insuring workers get a fair deal.All these contracts were negotiated in good faith and to blame all the ills on the workers is really unfair.They didn't decide to keep building the vehicles that the big 3 built and now can't sell.And we all owe a lot to people like the UAW who without you would have never gotten a lot of things like the 40 hour work week,overtime pay and lots of other protections and rights.The deck is and always has been stacked towards the power of the wealthy employer and it is only by banding together(unions) that workers have any semblence of equaivalency to such inherent advantage.While the workers at the big 3 will have to suffer some and (they have made many concessions already in the past) cannot escape the reality of the bad situation they are in it is not just them that should be made the scapegoat and asked to make concessions.Exec pay etc and all that must be on the table as well or it is a one sided proposition and bad for the majority of people.America's living standard may have to decline due to rest of the world catching up but lets not allow all that decline to taken out soley of the hide of the middle and lower classes while the upper ones not only maintain but increase theirs.That is a recipe for a lot of very bad social strife as eventually it will get to be a country of the rich doing better all the time and the rest who constantly see their lot getting worse.Revolutions are caused by such conditions and such imbalances.

Exactly!!!

 

[Embryoyo]

One of my friend's parents used to work at a Ford plant in ohio and they made a shit load of money for working on the line. His dad made $30-something/HR and his mom made $20-something/HR. Needless to say, they had LOTS of money.

Wow! Unrelated to auto workers, but my buddy is union for an HVAC company and throughout a work week he says he ends up spending about a days worth of time just sweeping, and another 3 days worth of time just driving product around... Making $20/HR.

 

[Facetious]

The 1st and best reform to help the american companies be more competetive would be to scrap our health care system and abolish the "for profit" insurance companies.None of the other countries in the world are saddled with this double per person cost system and nothing will be really fixed untill we deal with that.

Competitive ? Isn't that forbidden in an "anti - for profit world" ?
Don't get me wrong, I'm no friend of the insurance companies, but when the time comes when I need the services of a cardiologist, doG forbid, I'd rather employ the services of a for profit physician, as opposed to a government furnished, $60 thousand annual salaried, rationed doctor. :yesyes:

Of course I hate the insurance medium ! I also detest the IRS.
We'll just have to get used to it because the two are permanent fixtures . . . a reality, I'm afraid. The IRS and the insurance companies, collectively and unnecessarily employ millions of Americans. We can't put all of these people out on the street. :tongue:

The deck is and always has been stacked towards the power of the wealthy employer

I think that there should be a shake up in the corporate board of directorships. The question is - How is that accomplished ? As Janet Reno stated in the context of another issue "There's no controlling legal authority". The same applies here, there is no controlling legal authority in the backrooms of the corporate directorships. Not that I want government intervention into the matter, because I don't, that would be socialism . . or worse.

The natural human condition is always on the up, reach for higher highs, always stay ahead of the other guy (your competition), no matter what the consequences.

That's where the corporate board of directorships are today. They compete, not for the corps they represent, they compete amongst themselves . . . who can make the cover of "Barrons" etc.

 

[Friday on my mind]

Competitive ? Isn't that forbidden in an "anti - for profit world" ?
Don't get me wrong, I'm no friend of the insurance companies, but when the time comes when I need the services of a cardiologist, doG forbid, I'd rather employ the services of a for profit physician, as opposed to a government furnished, $60 thousand annual salaried, rationed doctor. :yesyes:

Of course I hate the insurance medium ! I also detest the IRS.
We'll just have to get used to it because the two are permanent fixtures . . . a reality, I'm afraid. The IRS and the insurance companies, collectively and unnecessarily employ millions of Americans. We can't put all of these people out on the street. :tongue:

Some things do not lend themselves to being treated as a commodity to be bargained for.Healthcare is one of those.As you sort of allude to who wants to shop for and utilize the cheapest doctor they can find.When a universal system is adopted here which is enevitable as the costs of this system are a real burden on the rest of the economy and our spending on it is out of proportion all the same doctors you can go to now will still be the same doctors you will see under that system.They will have no other choice(there is no where else they can go and find a for profit system so they will be stuck with us lol) and will do just fine.Doctors in the socialized medicine countries still live very nicely.And as to all the people working for the insurance companies now a lot of them will be be able to get jobs as part of the new system.It is estimated a single payer system would save immediately 300 billion a year by elimiminating all the 100s of seperate insurance company beauracacies and consolidating all that.Not to mention the elimination of profit for the insurance companies which is also a sustantial amount of the cost.

I think that there should be a shake up in the corporate board of directorships. The question is - How is that accomplished ? As Janet Reno stated in the context of another issue "There's no controlling legal authority". The same applies here, there is no controlling legal authority in the backrooms of the corporate directorships. Not that I want government intervention into the matter, because I don't, that would be socialism . . or worse.

The natural human condition is always on the up, reach for higher highs, always stay ahead of the other guy (your competition), no matter what the consequences.

That's where the corporate board of directorships are today. They compete, not for the corps they represent, they compete amongst themselves . . . who can make the cover of "Barrons" etc.

I don't see how changing board of directors will help workers.Its unions and collective bargaining that are the best counter to the power of the employer.There was a time like under FDR that govt was encouraging such things and we need a return to that so that their is some semeblence of balance in power.No worker is interested in getting things that threatens the viability of their employer and if there are times the 2 cannot agree on terms thats what arbitration by a fair minded 3rd party is for.But the example of someone like a walmart(biggest employer in US btw) who has some of the biggest profits and yet pays poor wages and only gives 1/2 its employees health care and of course hates the idea of being unionized is why I think unions are vital to seeing fair treatment of workers.Hopefully we will see a union at walmart in the near future and many other places.:thumbsup:

 

[titsrock]

I'd just like to know why the Chrysler Board of Directorship has chosen a "Mr Golden Parachute" if there ever was one, in Mr. Bob Nardelli, a guy who set up his very own $210 Million exit / payout as he resigned from the rank of Home Depot CEO.

Story

You should ask CERBERUS, the current owners of Chrysler who brought him in. They didn't seek Board approval. CERBERUS also thinks highly of Dan Quayle and John Snow, former Dubya Financial "whiz."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerberus_Capital_Management

This begs the question: was the whole point of the Bush Administration to unleash "hell" upon the American economy so ex-Bush cronies could "clean up"?

General Motors would like to BECOME Cerberus.

 

[BlueBalls]

I make £70 and hour...


But im a male whore, so.....:dunno:

 

[E-Ann-Hilden]

Why is it the capitalists have a problem with this wage/hr? So we're going to blame the people who build the cars for the problems with the company Shouldn't some blame go to the Harvard MBAs and Yale JDs who can't figure out how to lead a company to develop products which the consumer wants? You can trim a couple thousand workers from the ranks but shouldn't we also trim a couple thousand white-collar workers too to balance out the purge? What does the average white collar worker make at GM? More than $70/hr?

The Big 3 Auto companies figured out that the American Consumer can be deceived into subsidizing Big 3 "GLOBALIZATION" by buying expensive, worthless, gas-guzzling SUVs. The European Marketplace gets the fuel-efficient, small cars that GM/Ford make, and the U.S. gets the SUV The American consumer subsidizes GM/Ford.

The real plan for the Big 3 SHOULD BE (and Congress needs to make this happen) for Chrysler to be shutdown and liquidated, GM needs to be a 3 Brand Company--Chevrolet (passenger cars), Cadillac (wealthy cars) and GMC (light trucks, work vehicles). GM needs to get rid of Buick, Pontiac, Saturn, Saab. Ford needs to get rid of Mercury and cease the F150 truck. It's too much of a bloated gas-guzzler. The fact that Ford has been trying to turn the F150 into an SUV should've been a clue that the American Consumer is being suckered.

Inorder to absorb the millions of Jobs that will be lost by closing Chrysler and the rest of my ideas...

We need UNIVERSAL HEALTHCARE FOR ALL U.S.CITIZENS and these displaced union workers and white collar execs need to transition into healthcare jobs.

If we just let the Big 3 go away and do nothing...entire towns in states like Michigan, Ohio, Indiana, Illinois will become ghost towns within a year. There will be a 21st Century DUSTBOWL Migration out of these states by millions of people....

We cannot let that happen.

What are plumbers or construction people supposed to use for work? You cant haul a trailer with a Ford Focus as well. F150's have there use, just not for driving you and your briefcase to work. GM, Ford or Chysler should reduce the lines that do not sell and continue reducing the amout of dealers.

I agree with most of your other points. I agree that people who make allot of money justify there own pay scale, but when they look at Union workers they seem aghast at what they make.

I live in a mostly blue collar neighborhood with some White collar mixed in Detroit. Average house is $70-$150,000, Usually have two 4 year old domestic cars or trucks in the driveway, 2.2 kids, kids will have to pay there own way through college, if they go, vacation trip is too Florida in July or Cedar Point, and wife works part time at Kmart. I dont see any silver spoons or gold plated Cadillacs making $40 a hour.

My Grandfather worked at Chrysler and raised 6 kids in a much more affluent area, in which I grew up in. With working wages declining and cost of living, it is much harder to do that these days.

The job bank does need to go and a much reduced health care plan. People like me get fired with 2 weeks pay, not 5 years at 85% of my pay scale. UAW workers should also get a health care plan like most Americans have and have to pay a much as much.