More about this falsehood here:
http://www.prospect.org/csnc/blogs/...2008&base_name=gm_auto_workers_are_not_paid_7
http://www.prospect.org/csnc/blogs/...2008&base_name=gm_auto_workers_are_not_paid_7
It's a MYTH - GM autoworkers do NOT make $70/hour !!
- Thread starter Facial_King
- Start date
tartanterrier
Is somewhere outhere.
Wouldn't that be cool though - making $70/hour for jack :thefinger
Good link Facial King.
But it does point out why the Big 3's only chance for survival is to declare chapter 11, tear up the union contracts and rid themselves of billions and billions of dollars in costs that their competitors don't have.
It sucks for the workers (and former workers) that paid all that money into healthcare and pensions. But as events are now proving; you never trust others to handle your health or pensions. Do it yourself or you could get screwed.
They may not get paid that much, but they may well cost GM that much, when you consider payroll expenses and FICA. Workers unions are unrealistic and greedy, and have no place in an economy with our levels of unemployment where there is no need for an employer to be trapped into using union only labor. Perhaps if the big 3 told their union workers that they had the option of being paid a wage more comparable to other factory workers in America or being unemployed, they might have a better chance at weathering the storm.
You consider even $40/hr. - for some seriously burdensome work (either physically taxing or just mind-numbingly dull and boring and tedious) - to be greedy. But what of the execs who make 100, 200, 500X that much? And they make it when they're doing "business" on the golf links or flying in private jets to DC to ask for taxpayer handouts? What is that?
What's "unrealistic" is not the union wage but the idea that what any exec does is actually WORTH that many times more than what the actual line workers do, which is build the products that sell for money.
:2 cents:
The 1st and best reform to help the american companies be more competetive would be to scrap our health care system and abolish the "for profit" insurance companies.None of the other countries in the world are saddled with this double per person cost system and nothing will be really fixed untill we deal with that.
Unions are a vital element for insuring workers get a fair deal.All these contracts were negotiated in good faith and to blame all the ills on the workers is really unfair.They didn't decide to keep building the vehicles that the big 3 built and now can't sell.And we all owe a lot to people like the UAW who without you would have never gotten a lot of things like the 40 hour work week,overtime pay and lots of other protections and rights.The deck is and always has been stacked towards the power of the wealthy employer and it is only by banding together(unions) that workers have any semblence of equaivalency to such inherent advantage.While the workers at the big 3 will have to suffer some and (they have made many concessions already in the past) cannot escape the reality of the bad situation they are in it is not just them that should be made the scapegoat and asked to make concessions.Exec pay etc and all that must be on the table as well or it is a one sided proposition and bad for the majority of people.America's living standard may have to decline due to rest of the world catching up but lets not allow all that decline to taken out soley of the hide of the middle and lower classes while the upper ones not only maintain but increase theirs.That is a recipe for a lot of very bad social strife as eventually it will get to be a country of the rich doing better all the time and the rest who constantly see their lot getting worse.Revolutions are caused by such conditions and such imbalances.
Unions are a vital element for insuring workers get a fair deal.All these contracts were negotiated in good faith and to blame all the ills on the workers is really unfair.They didn't decide to keep building the vehicles that the big 3 built and now can't sell.And we all owe a lot to people like the UAW who without you would have never gotten a lot of things like the 40 hour work week,overtime pay and lots of other protections and rights.The deck is and always has been stacked towards the power of the wealthy employer and it is only by banding together(unions) that workers have any semblence of equaivalency to such inherent advantage.While the workers at the big 3 will have to suffer some and (they have made many concessions already in the past) cannot escape the reality of the bad situation they are in it is not just them that should be made the scapegoat and asked to make concessions.Exec pay etc and all that must be on the table as well or it is a one sided proposition and bad for the majority of people.America's living standard may have to decline due to rest of the world catching up but lets not allow all that decline to taken out soley of the hide of the middle and lower classes while the upper ones not only maintain but increase theirs.That is a recipe for a lot of very bad social strife as eventually it will get to be a country of the rich doing better all the time and the rest who constantly see their lot getting worse.Revolutions are caused by such conditions and such imbalances.
Facetious
Moderated
Perhaps if we were to tally up the UAW - GM employee's medical/ dental insurance package costs and add those costs to the average UAW pay scale, it might be $70 an hour. What's wrong with that ? GM could still be capable of turning a profit, it's just that the economic shit hit the fan, accross the board, in nearly every sector. Hell, there's municipalities that are laying off like mad ! That should offer some indication of the macro econ conditions out there.
United Auto Workers, collectively, have been the recipient of bad publicity over the years, and I'm not quite sure why. IMO, they aren't the slouches that some make em out to be. The insourcing of cheaper labor sources, into America, should not retard the set salary standards, previous, to the arrival of the insource foreign "bargain workers". It's not fair to compare The UAW wages & benefits with those who take up employ at Honda & Toyota. Maybe post chapter 11 or whatever, but not now.
If only the sub prime loan / housing crisis / credit crisis and $4.35 per gallon gas hadn't come along, I am of the opinion that people, UAW workers included, would still be in the market for SUVs today. If someone wants a bigger vehicle, for safety reasons or for a kid hauler etc. and they don't mind a vehicle that drinks a bit more gas than the average six cyl. let 'em :dunno: They don't pollute any more than any other gas powered vehicle, so long as they are properly tuned.
What makes me sick is all this manufactured PC think -
Hybrid -> Goooood
. . . SUV -> Baaahahaaaad
I'm reading some rather ugly news reports out of Australia, regarding old, exhausted hybrid vehicle battery cells . . . that cannot be recycled ! :eek:
I guess that the spent battery trays are starting to pile up. Didn't they figure this out during the design phase ? or were they in too much of a hurry to get a hot selling car on the market ?
In any event, I support America's Auto Workers ! :thumbsup:
United Auto Workers, collectively, have been the recipient of bad publicity over the years, and I'm not quite sure why. IMO, they aren't the slouches that some make em out to be. The insourcing of cheaper labor sources, into America, should not retard the set salary standards, previous, to the arrival of the insource foreign "bargain workers". It's not fair to compare The UAW wages & benefits with those who take up employ at Honda & Toyota. Maybe post chapter 11 or whatever, but not now.
If only the sub prime loan / housing crisis / credit crisis and $4.35 per gallon gas hadn't come along, I am of the opinion that people, UAW workers included, would still be in the market for SUVs today. If someone wants a bigger vehicle, for safety reasons or for a kid hauler etc. and they don't mind a vehicle that drinks a bit more gas than the average six cyl. let 'em :dunno: They don't pollute any more than any other gas powered vehicle, so long as they are properly tuned.
What makes me sick is all this manufactured PC think -
Hybrid -> Goooood
. . . SUV -> Baaahahaaaad I'm reading some rather ugly news reports out of Australia, regarding old, exhausted hybrid vehicle battery cells . . . that cannot be recycled ! :eek:
I guess that the spent battery trays are starting to pile up. Didn't they figure this out during the design phase ? or were they in too much of a hurry to get a hot selling car on the market ?
In any event, I support America's Auto Workers ! :thumbsup:
maildude
Postal Paranoiac
I love these Conservaphiles like Rust Limpballs who get on the radio, T.V. or whatever, and talk about how these big executives deserve their huge bonuses and pay because they "strove to achieve!" I hear 'ole Sean-Of-The-Dead Vanity talking about how liberals want to "punish executives for their success." But by God let's not allow a worker to try and earn a better wage! Christ, that's un-American!!
There is a myth they propagate about good managers being rare and therefore deserving ridiculous amounts in remuneration.In fact there are a lot of people who could do their jobs as well.
ChefChiTown
The secret ingredient? MY BALLS
One of my friend's parents used to work at a Ford plant in ohio and they made a shit load of money for working on the line. His dad made $30-something/HR and his mom made $20-something/HR. Needless to say, they had LOTS of money.
Not so sure the article really was truthful either. The average worker at GM makes $41 an hour but that means that there are many that make more than that.
I checked my fact by calling my uncle who has worked for on the line for GM for 33 years. He told me he makes over $60 an hour and with the pension and healthcare that takes it over $70. So the truth is more like "SOME" line workers at GM make $70 an hour.
I checked my fact by calling my uncle who has worked for on the line for GM for 33 years. He told me he makes over $60 an hour and with the pension and healthcare that takes it over $70. So the truth is more like "SOME" line workers at GM make $70 an hour.
Here's another article that seems to approach the numbers in a reasonable manner:
http://www.tnr.com/story_print.html?id=1026e955-541c-4aa6-bcf2-56dfc3323682
http://www.tnr.com/story_print.html?id=1026e955-541c-4aa6-bcf2-56dfc3323682
Why?
Legzman
what the fuck you lookin at?
America is un-American.
If you're talking in California terms, $70/ hour is barely cost-of-living expenses. Well, not exactly, but just about. The most I've ever made an hour, after you consider the climbing rigger premium that I was making, the double time after midnight, meal penalties after not getting a meal break in 5 hours, vacation, and health and welfare, was $136.73/ hour. I wish I could say that more often!
Facetious
Moderated
After all deductions, $41 per hour = $1640.00 per 40 hr week . . . not bad.
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