Is living off the US guv better than working if you only make $30k/year?

[LukeEl]

I'd rather make 30K a year working for it, since I am still single and have no kids. The amount of taxes I pay is a lot less, and I receive money back on my Fed and State taxes.

 

[Krazy4Kobe]

When I retired from Hewlett-Packard in 2007, I was making 43K a year.

Wow. Sorry about your luck!

How, about your awesome chart posting skills....here's a little lesson in economics:

1980 -- $9,500
2010 -- $40,600

Increase in income of 327% or 5% per year.

Awesome!

However, REAL wages are infested with things like REAL inflation -- which since 1980 is ~8% per annum.

Hey, but I'm getting a 5% raise every year! I can't be getting poorer! LOL!!!

Yes, yes you are. Very much so.

But, whatever, keep on believing that just because you get a "raise", you are getting more money!
It's certainly not far from how your own gov't conducts its economic schemes.

 

[Krazy4Kobe]

I'd rather make 30K a year working for it, since I am still single and have no kids. The amount of taxes I pay is a lot less, and I receive money back on my Fed and State taxes.

I little tip, Luke -- you should NEVER get money back on your returns. NEVER.

What you are essentially doing is loaning your hard earned money to the gov't at 0%.
(And look at what they do with it!)

Get your employer to take LESS tax off your pay and keep YOUR money!

 

[Will E Worm]

The radio station in my area was just talking about this.

The radio host knows a woman that lives in a home she only has to pay $90 a month on. (3 bedroom 1 and a half bath)

So, living off the government can be better.

 

[Smallville22]

No its better to work and earn $30k per year salary

 

[vodkazvictim]

I'd rather be poor on my own wit than be a parasite.

 

[Krazy4Kobe]

Pride is a deadly sin.

 

[ThatRedWing]

Pride is a deadly sin.

So is sloth.

 

[STDiva]

So is lust. Probably.

 

[Frank Fire]

i would rather work for 30k it can be alot its all where you live in the us here in my state its not but i still would rather work then sit all day

 

[D-rock]

In the U.S. if anybody said that their standard of living was better living of the welfare and other support programs than making thirty thousand dollars a year they are either:

1. In a very strange non-typical situation where a lot of unusual things have to happen to make that true for them where it isn't for the vast majority of people that gets aid.

2. They don't know what they are talking about.

3. They are lying.

Living of the support of the state and federal government usually sucks a lot despite what a certain amount of people out there seem to believe.

 

[Rey C.]

It would be interesting to know. So for anyone out there with experience on this? Did you at one time live off the government, and you found you lived better than you do or did when you actually worked for a living?

Also, what all is available from the government? have they started giving cars out to people yet? that would be pretty funny, they could give them Chevy volts

What exactly does it mean to go on welfare and get public housing and all that jazz that the generous Uncle SAm has to offer its citizens, and even to illegal border skipper non citizens who wish to live the American dream. The USA may kill alot of innocent people abroad, but they also seem to take good care of the poor and unfortuneate also. Its like a vicious serial killer that would give you the shirt off his back.

The only program that I know a fair amount about is the Section 8/subsidized housing program. I've always offered the units I have in a particular city to people who are on that program, and I've generally had good luck with it. For Section 8, and I believe other similar government "welfare" programs, they are only available to legal U.S. residents, certain non-citizens who fall into very specific categories, people with children/dependents, people over age 65 and the disabled. That's how it used to be, anyway. But unless it's a "mixed household" (legal primary resident and an undocumented secondary resident), I don't think Section 8 is available. And even with the mixed household, the undocumented resident's presence reduces the amount of the benefit. And if you get caught allowing someone to stay in the residence who is not on the lease, you can be kicked off the program altogether. In my case, I will evict you whether the government cares or not, per the terms of the lease.

So I don't believe it's the case that an able-bodied, single person could elect to quit their job (whatever amount they are making) and just go on welfare. Even with Section 8, the tenant has to pay at least 30%, but no more than 40% (I believe) of their earnings toward the rent. So let's say it's a nurse's aid (my typical tenant in one neighborhood) who makes $10 an hour, $1700+/- a month or about $21K per year. Unless she was legally disabled, to get on the program, she'd have to have a child or dependent. If she was eligible for a 2 bedroom and the rent was $800/month, her portion of the monthly rent would be 30% of her income or a little over $500 a month. The government would pay the other $300. If she didn't work, the government would pay the entire amount, up to whatever the maximum allowable rent was for the type of property that she qualified for. I don't do the property management side of this anymore, and some of the rules and regulations may have changed since I did. But in the past, I've had some tenants whose portion of the rent was $10 a month.

I'm not aware that there are any programs which offer people free cars. Maybe if they're disabled there are programs that help handicapped people buy customized vans and what not. But I'm not sure about that either.

It actually is a very interesting question that you're asking. I wish I knew more abut the various available programs so that I could give some sort of meaningful answer. But since I'm pretty sure that there aren't that many programs, other than unemployment benefits, that would be available to a single person, under the age of 65 and without some sort of disability, my guess is a person in that category would be better off making $30 grand a year. And if you're a person with kids making that salary (depending on where you live), the tax breaks you qualify for, plus other state and federal programs you may qualify for, probably still makes the $30 grand a year a better deal. But maybe the value of those benefits is worth more than $30K a year. I really just don't know.

The main difference that I see in this comparison though: at $30K a year, you have a job where you may be able to work your way up and make more money as time goes on, develop a set of skills that you can take somewhere else and make a higher salary or even get a part-time/second job. But if you're on welfare, and if that's what you're content with, none of those things are really possible. You can't even (legally) work part-time without your benefits being reduced or eliminated.

 

[Will E Worm]

If gas goes up to 4 and 5 dollars a gallon then there will be many more applying for government assistance.

Also, a rise in crime and riots.

So, they better get on the ball and fix the gas problem.

There's no reason for gas to cost as much as it does.

Gas was $1.89 when Obama took office. We do not want your electric cars. Stop making them. :tongue:

Pride is a deadly sin.

:yesyes:

 

[Rey C.]

If gas goes up to 4 and 5 dollars a gallon then there will be many more applying for government assistance.

Also, a rise in crime and riots.

So, they better get on the ball and fix the gas problem.

There's no reason for gas to cost as much as it does.

Gas was $1.89 when Obama took office. We do not want your electric cars. Stop making them. :tongue:




:yesyes:

What government assistance can people get because gasoline prices are rising? :dunno:

As for why gas prices have been rising, even back when the price of oil was flat... this seems to be one major contributor:

12/28/2011 Study: Refinery Closures Will Drive Fuel Prices Up

A study released on Friday by the U.S. Energy Information Administration suggests gasoline prices could spike and ultra-low sulfur diesel supplies could be compromised by the potential closure of three Delaware Valley refineries.

Last month, a congressional contingent that included U.S. Reps. Patrick Meehan, R-7, of Upper Darby, Robert Brady, D-1, of Philadelphia and Chaka Fattah, D-2, of Philadelphia, and U.S. Sens. Robert Casey, D-Pa., and Patrick Toomey, R-Pa., sent a request to the U.S. Energy Information Administration asking for an independent assessment of the situation.

The EIA is the statistical and analytical agency within the U.S. Department of Energy and released an eight-page "Reductions in Northeast Refining Activity: Potential Implications for Petroleum Product Markets" Friday.

In September, Sunoco executives announced plans to sell the Marcus Hook and Philadelphia refineries, with the intention of closing the facilities if a new owner wasn't located.

In December, the company issued a 90-day layoff pronouncement for the Marcus Hook employees, and Philadelphia is slated to shutdown no later than July.

In addition, ConocoPhillips stopped producing gasoline and other petroleum products at its Trainer facility in September with a plant closure anticipated for the first months of the new year.

Refineries on the East Coast supply 40 percent of the Northeast's gasoline sales and 60 percent of diesel and other fuel oils.

Of that, half comes from the Marcus Hook, Trainer and Philadelphia refineries.

 

[Will E Worm]

What government assistance can people get because gasoline prices are rising? :dunno:

It's called welfare and food stamps. Look for a huge increase if gas goes up much more.

 

[Rey C.]

It's called welfare and food stamps. Look for a huge increase if gas goes up much more.

Well, if rising gas prices cause the economy to slow down again, then yeah.

 

[Will E Worm]

Well, if rising gas prices cause the economy to slow down again, then yeah.

It's not just going to slow down. It's going to be much worse with four to five dollar a gallon gas.

 

[Legzman]

Bust your ass for 30k a year to pay part of someones 30k they can get out of the fuckin government? Pretty easy choice if you ask me! I'd rather be on the receiving end. The whole system needs to be overhauled.

 

[Rey C.]

But other than nationalizing gasoline refiners, I'm not sure what could be done to *force* them to increase production. In early January, when gasoline demand was down, refiners decreased production even more, to force the prices up... even as oil prices were relatively flat. When people speak of "free market solutions", this is one of the side effects of that. There aren't that many refiners in the U.S. And once they decide to manipulate the price of gasoline, independent of the price of oil or even demand, there's very little that can be done about that as things now stand.

Unless there is clear evidence of price gouging, I'm not aware of anything meaningful that the President or Congress can do about gasoline prices. I'm sure that Bush and the Republicans would have liked to see lower gas and oil prices in 2007-08, but there was nothing they could do about it. And there's nothing that Obama and the Democrats can do about it now.

Middle East tensions are affecting oil prices right now. But the price of gas had been rising well before that began to factor in. In a free market system, what can one do about that?

 

[Will E Worm]

But other than nationalizing gasoline refiners, I'm not sure what could be done to *force* them to increase production. In early January, when gasoline demand was down, refiners decreased production even more, to force the prices up... even as oil prices were relatively flat. When people speak of "free market solutions", this is one of the side effects of that. There aren't that many refiners in the U.S. And once they decide to manipulate the price of gasoline, independent of the price of oil or even demand, there's very little that can be done about that as things now stand.

Unless there is clear evidence of price gouging.

That is price gouging. Purposefully manipulating a commodity to increase profits is wrong.
Especially when it hurts people and the economy.

We need more oil refineries and more drilling.