Guns Guns Guns !!!

[Dawn]

People are going to be irresponsible, so might as well let the legitimate owners and user have access to something that actually provides personal defense when others are not responsible.
You cannot remotely expect law enforcement to do such, unless you honestly believe in a police state.

I dont understand your point regarding the police state...

USA is the only western country which have firearms possession as a constitutional law.

Canada, where I live, isnt a police state. Yet, we have strong (and quite absurd) controlling laws. Most citizens arent owning a firearm. And it works.

England, France, Deutchland, Finland, Swiss... Not a single police state there, neither the owning of firearms in the constitution.

 

[Member2019]

Back on-topic ...

Let's get back on-topic. How about a post ...

- Favorite Rifle Round, Rifle
- Favorite Pistol/SMG Round, Pistol, SMB
- Other? E.g., .50 Rifle? Others?

Especially you guys with military experience and exposure, what works and what doesn't?

Secondly, I noted we've talked pistols, rifles, etc... We haven't talked as much about SMGs, although probably because many aren't legal for ownership, or at least not as popularly configured.

I've always been impressed with the TDI Vector concept with an in-line/center-line barrel to hand, which negates off-axis recoil. It also has an additional compensator for recoil, plus it uses the good'ole .45 ACP. That gives it more punch than the 9mm, plus it's subsonic in heavier grains, which makes it excellent for special operations.

They are going to make a civilian legal design, with 3x the barrel and semi-auto, but it kinda defeats the purpose. So this is more in the realm of my general engineering interest, than anything anyone can own.

 

[Member2019]

It doesn't apply outside the US ...

I dont understand your point regarding the police state...
USA is the only western country which have firearms possession as a constitutional law.
Canada, where I live, isnt a police state. Yet, we have strong (and quite absurd) controlling laws. Most citizens arent owning a firearm. And it works.
England, France, Deutchland, Finland, Swiss... Not a single police state there, neither the owning of firearms in the constitution.

My post was 100% with regard to American considerations.

I.e., the US is quite different in mindset than most other countries, and outlawing firearms won't bring down violent crime significantly here in the US.
It will only mean you'll have to rely on the police for protection and -- unless we have a police state -- there won't be enough police to do so.

That was my point, not in relevant to other countries, the US is quite different, statistically.
Not that outlawing guns will cause the police state, that was not my point at all.

 

[D-rock]

I dont understand your point regarding the police state...

USA is the only western country which have firearms possession as a constitutional law.

Canada, where I live, isnt a police state. Yet, we have strong (and quite absurd) controlling laws. Most citizens arent owning a firearm. And it works.

England, France, Deutchland, Finland, Swiss... Not a single police state there, neither the owning of firearms in the constitution.

It would be more correct to say they are not a police state...yet. Give them some time and maybe even throw some unfortunate bad and unforeseen circumstances that make people desperate, which always happens eventually. I could also point out most of them have either not existed long or have not even existed as anything other than a totalitarian state for more than a couple hundred years yet.

 

[Dawn]

Re: Back on-topic ...

Yep. Maybe you are right D-Rock.

But i think Prof. Voluptuary made a good point about this thread which been hijacked for too long and should go back on its original rails for the pleasure of Gun amateurs :thumbsup:

*****

Let's get back on-topic. How about a post ...

- Favorite Rifle Round, Rifle
- Favorite Pistol/SMG Round, Pistol, SMB
- Other? E.g., .50 Rifle? Others?

Especially you guys with military experience and exposure, what works and what doesn't?

Secondly, I noted we've talked pistols, rifles, etc... We haven't talked as much about SMGs, although probably because many aren't legal for ownership, or at least not as popularly configured.

I've always been impressed with the TDI Vector concept with an in-line/center-line barrel to hand, which negates off-axis recoil. It also has an additional compensator for recoil, plus it uses the good'ole .45 ACP. That gives it more punch than the 9mm, plus it's subsonic in heavier grains, which makes it excellent for special operations.

They are going to make a civilian legal design, with 3x the barrel and semi-auto, but it kinda defeats the purpose. So this is more in the realm of my general engineering interest, than anything anyone can own.

 

[Will E Worm]

As long as a supermajority of the people do not disagree, the Constitution is our highest law in the US.
If a supermajority of the people do disagree, then they can repeal it.

If they want a war in this country then they can try.

 

[marquis2]

You don't get it.



We have the rights that can't be taken away and if the government becomes
destructive to those rights, we have the right to alter or abolish that government.
Even if that means a war. Which will happen if they don't watch themselves.




Yes, really.

You quoted the Declaration of Independence which is not the Constitution.But the answer lies in the constitution itself-the right to elect a fresh government or even to impeach the President.
But you missed my point-that there is no mention of the right to own land or property or livestock or even a pot or a kettle in any Amendment.These things were taken for granted as was the ownership of guns and other weapons particularly in isolated areas.So why single out arms? Because the Amendment was about BEARING arms. It was a carry over of the English laws of 500 years previously - the Assize of Arms which required freemen to bear arms for the public defence.

 

[Will E Worm]

You quoted the Declaration of Independence which is not the Constitution.But the answer lies in the constitution itself-the right to elect a fresh government or even to impeach the President.
But you missed my point-that there is no mention of the right to own land or property or livestock or even a pot or a kettle in any Amendment.

The Declaration of Independence is part of our laws, not just the Constitution. We have the right to own land and so on.

Did you know anyone can get a degree in property rights?

Property Rights

Amendment V

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

Bill of Rights

 

[wesker4]

beretta M9
M4A1
MP5

 

[thanksimout]

I am looking for a legal semi auto rifle with a high capacity mag 30 rounds or more something like the AR 15 or the AK 47. Any suggested websites for quality used semi autos ? The key point here is that I am in the U.S. and I am looking for legal used semi autos.
Thanks in advance if you can point to reputable dealers.
doublevaglvr

 

[Facetious]

Good Idea :thumbsup: Get in before the ban 'cause you know the restrictions are coming. Away from Cauliflowernia, for starters.

Most accommodating states for A 4 (AR 15) & "Ack four seven" -
If on the East coast, New Hampshire, Vermont (yes ! liberal socialist Vermont of all places !, the last time I checked anyway), Florida, an I'm certain the Carolinas.

As for the West coast, the most accommodating states - Nevada & Arizona, the latter, arguably the A4 • AR-15 center of the universe.

Get lots & lots of differing opinions and use your own good judgment or the judgment of someone you trust. Too many buyers have been burned - and I mean bad. Never buy anything used that you haven't fired at least 20 rounds through. If an individual is serious about selling his stick and he has nothing to conceal, in all likelihood, he'll give you a go at it at your local range, given that, you supply the major brand (Win. - Fed. etc.) name ammo to run through it.
Maybe this is a good place to start looking, at your local outdoor ranges. Phone ahead and see if there is a firearm sales & service facility, as part of, or independent of range facility. It's always best to have the proving ground right outside the doors of where your about to purchase a used firearm.

If you're just kinda getting started in this game, I would recommend that you buy a new unit. You can typically add accessories of custom cater to your particular desires later. That' the good thing about the '15, it's very modular. Learn all that you can before your purch. Unless you know a great deal about '47's I would discourage that you look at one. So many are built with a variety of parts from around the world - there's often out of spec issues etc. Good for a later purch in my opine.

Above all else Safety & Personal Responsibility First !

See ya out in there desert

 

[thanksimout]

Nope definitely not new to the game, I have been a responsible gun owner for over 25 years I just don't feel comfortable posting my personal inventory on freeones.
I appreciate your detailed and well thought out response and will heed your sage advice. I have typically purchased used fire arms in the past through our local gun smith, he has long since retired so I am looking for a trusted replacement. I guess I'll stay local, I already have the CCW so there are multiple avenues for me to research.
Do you have a personal preference between the AR 15 and the AK 47, if so why is one superior to the other or is it just a matter of personal preference?

 

[Facetious]

The .223 rem. / 5.56 x 45 is much more accurate and tunable, if you will. There's a ton of specialized components for .223, if handloading is your game.
The .223 projectile also offers a wide range of weight ranges, the lighter, for inside 300 yds. the weighyter for 300 & out yonder.

An AK is much more of a "blaster" in that, you're kind of limited to a 123 (if I recall correctly) grain ball projectile. There's not too much of a specialized handload market for 7.62 X 39 mm. (.310 mm projectiles). Most of the guys that I know that shoot AK have started out with an SKS platform and then later, picked up on the AK.
As you probably know, most of the the AK clan shoot the readily avail "ruskie mfgd" steel case, berdan primed (no refill) cases, fodder, often available, up until fairly recently, $ reasonably $. I'm sure that the AK munitions continue to be priced way below that of the mid grade mil surp / NATO 5.56 mm.

Finally, you're not limited, so much to .233 Rem. with the A 4 / AR - 15. There are other available chamberings , if you so desire.

 

[thanksimout]

Great information, my max accuracy with a rest, fence post or traditional rifle rest is just a fraction over 300 yards ( 305 to be exact ) using a 7 mm mag Savage with factory loads from Remington, what then would be your suggestion in terms of an accurate semi auto with a high capacity clip ?

 

[Kingfisher]

Well personally, I went with a CMMG Upper, a Spikes Tactical Lower, Voltor stock, and some add-ons from GG&G, LaRue and a Troy quad rail foregrip.
Pick up mags from Magpull, they have thermoplastic line that is really tough.
I sighted the rifle in at 200 yards with the EoTech Holo sight, but I know it will shoot further.

 

[thanksimout]

Thanks, what I am really looking for is a semi auto that will shoot as flat and accurate at 300 yards ( inside a two inch circle ) as the Savage 7 mm mag.
From personal experience not many shooters, rifles, or factory ammo are as good as this gun. I currently do not own a semi auto rifle with a high capacity clip so I am looking for an affordable one under 1 thousand dollars U.S. if possible, not including the scope.
I am asking for your opinion on the name brand and model of the gun, from there I will do my own research and shoot, buy, trade locally.
Thanks for your help in this personal quest.

doublevaglvr

 

[Kingfisher]

Under a $1000? I don't know about that. The set up above without optics was $1200.00
If you want name brand and a high cap, it's going to cost.
Just remember buying the best only hurts once.

 

[thanksimout]

Under a $1000? I don't know about that. The set up above without optics was $1200.00
If you want name brand and a high cap, it's going to cost.
Just remember buying the best only hurts once.

That is a fair statement and $ 1,200.00 U.S. is only 20 % above what I am looking for, this would be $ 1,200.00 buying brand new so a high quality used rifle would cost below $ 1,000.00 as it is used.

I still need the make and model #.

 

[Kingfisher]

That is a fair statement and $ 1,200.00 U.S. is only 20 % above what I am looking for, this would be $ 1,200.00 buying brand new so a high quality used rifle would cost below $ 1,000.00 as it is used.

I still need the make and model #.

These are links to some of the major componets of my AR.

http://cmmginc.secure-mall.com/shop/index.php?cat=35&shop=1&
http://www.troyind.com/
http://stores.homestead.com/Laruetactical/StoreFront.bok
http://www.gggaz.com
http://www.spikestactical.com/z/index.php

 

[thanksimout]

These are links to some of the major componets of my AR.

http://cmmginc.secure-mall.com/shop/index.php?cat=35&shop=1&
http://www.troyind.com/
http://stores.homestead.com/Laruetactical/StoreFront.bok
http://www.gggaz.com
http://www.spikestactical.com/z/index.php

Cool, thank you