Government Shuts Down As Congress Fails To Reach Spending Agreement

[FreeOnes_Anders]

Editors Note: Anders, when you show up and delete these posts, it's ok. I've made copies.

I am sure you have.

On another note, Blue Countach will no longer be participating in this thread.

Verbal disagreements are one thing, but I will not tolerate any actual threats.

 

[Mayhem]

And that's it?

 

[bobjustbob]

Tell me more about this $22 hr. thing. Is this some sort of average of what should be? What a living wage is? Is it that difficult to keep me, my spouse, and kid functioning at 45k a year? Mind you that at 45k you are probably not on the clock but salary. Full benefits but expected to be there 50 hours per week. Still, a small business owner that can bring in 45k for himself is doing quite well. Using his keys to open the doors and closing out the registers at the end of the night...every fucking night. Other than that who isn't getting their deserved $22 hr?

I want to be fair to that fucking liberal Mayhem. I can say that I have called him more names then he had ever thrown at me. He has kicked my ass with information and I have used conservative positions that he agrees with. The subjects change and spirited debate is exchanged. I've never been to Vegas but when I do I want to buy him a steak...then he can buy me one.

 

[Mayhem]

Thank you Bob. That really does mean very much to me and I appreciate it.

 

[bobjustbob]

Like I said before, spirited debate, not pissing contests. Sure I love kicking Euralists in the balls. Such an easy target. But they also bring something to the table. Something willing and able to share. We are all subject to the laws and benefits of the lands in which we live. Neither is perfect. There isn't much stopping anyone from seeing if the grass is greener on the other side. From my view, I can't see myself living in a 500sq ft flat with 80 bucks per week for my pocket. Propane in my tank to drive my car? No, that's for weekend grilling. Fuck that. I can live a very rich and fulfilling life without ever eating a pizza from Tuscany.

 

[xfire]

Somebody please tell me how Obamacare will ruin America. I'm not interested in an ideological explanation, but an economic one.

I would like to know how Obamacare would cause just such a meltdown.

It won't. Republicans are trying to sell The ACA as "Obama trying to give everyone free healthcare" but the reality is that The ACA is merely a collection of regulations designed to eliminate abuses by the insurance industry and open up access to affordable insurance for those that are uninsured. It's really a windfall for the insurance industry who should be glad to get 30,000,000+ new paying customers, which should drive down the costs for everyone.

 

[Rey C.]

I hate to tell you this Rattrap but you should probably limit your involvement to discussion about scientific matters. You aren't exactly lending insight to other topics. And Rey we can copy and paste all day long articles stating medical bills are the number one cause of bankruptcy filings but it is just not true. I have been filing for clients for over 20 years and while medical bills are certainly included in many petitions it is not at the level that these agenda driven studies conclude. The totak amounts may be higher than consumer debt but the individual cases do not add up to more.

No offense intended, but the anecdotal experiences of one lawyer in one town in North Carolina hardly disproves the claims in the article. If you have conducted a study or collected data which shows otherwise, please provide that data.

 

[Mariahxxx]

Tell me more about this $22 hr. thing. Is this some sort of average of what should be? What a living wage is? Is it that difficult to keep me, my spouse, and kid functioning at 45k a year? Mind you that at 45k you are probably not on the clock but salary. Full benefits but expected to be there 50 hours per week. Still, a small business owner that can bring in 45k for himself is doing quite well. Using his keys to open the doors and closing out the registers at the end of the night...every fucking night. Other than that who isn't getting their deserved $22 hr?

I want to be fair to that fucking liberal Mayhem. I can say that I have called him more names then he had ever thrown at me. He has kicked my ass with information and I have used conservative positions that he agrees with. The subjects change and spirited debate is exchanged. I've never been to Vegas but when I do I want to buy him a steak...then he can buy me one.

check this out it's really interesting Bob

 

[Master Roshi]

yup if you adjusted the minimum wage for "real" cost of living increases the minimum wage should be about 20 dollars, you can't go buy the CPI when trying to figure out how much real cost of living increases should be, the fact is while inflation (rising prices due to the expansion of the money supply) has gone up massively since Nixon took the US completely off of a gold standard in 1971 (the total supply of money in 1980 was 1 trillion), the wages of most americans has not kept pace

 

[Master Roshi]

hmmmm and I don't think Warren fully understands the history of the federal reserve and how they run this money game

 

[Mariahxxx]

hahaha I hate to tell ya but there are few people who understand banking better than Elizabeth Warren. And you can look up a piece I posted last month on the federal reserve.

 

[Master Roshi]

hahaha I hate to tell ya but there are few people who understand banking better than Elizabeth Warren. And you can look up a piece I posted last month on the federal reserve.

well apparently Warren believes that Obama should pick Janet Yellen to be the next fed chairman which means that quantitative easy will be ramped up even further because Yellen believes Bernanke did not do enough and what the means to me in the long run is higher prices aka a continued slow but steady devaluing of the dollar, but then again the fed really has no choice, the debt ceiling will have to rise and they will have to keep monetizing debt and expanding the money supply in order to pay the bills

 

[eponymous]

Somebody please tell me how Obamacare will ruin America.

I would like to know how Obamacare would cause just such a meltdown.

It won't. Republicans are trying to sell The ACA as "Obama trying to give everyone free healthcare" but the reality is that The ACA is merely a collection of regulations designed to eliminate abuses by the insurance industry and open up access to affordable insurance for those that are uninsured. It's really a windfall for the insurance industry who should be glad to get 30,000,000+ new paying customers, which should drive down the costs for everyone.

I appreciate that, but I'd like to hear from someone who opposes it exactly why it is so wrong. I genuinely want to know. The government is actually shut down over it, so there must be some pretty convincing reasons to reject it.

 

[bobjustbob]

check this out it's really interesting Bob

Her numbers don't add up. Raise the price by 4 cents. Are they chugging out 25 of her #11's per hour? Every hour that the store is open? If they did then that would be $1 per hour for each employee. What was not mentioned was technology. If a company can produce more goods quicker, to match the demand, investing in technology rather than labor, would that be a bad thing? Point in case: I enjoy some of the best pizza in this country. It is made by hand. Half can be attributed to the ingredients and the other to the people making them. Papa John's and Domino's are both a walk in my pajamas from my door. That manufactured shit doesn't come here. They can't take the time or have the resources to manufacture that kind of pie. I pay more for my local pie and know these chefs put those together right. If I lived in Arizona or Montna I may have to live without pizza.

Bottom line, you get paid what you are worth for what the company will pay. Some people make $22 hr spinning pies. Others make less. Not every waitress in a local diner has what it takes to satisfy customers at a Puck place. Did she say that she was projecting 4 cent increases compounded from and through the 60's? Yes she did.

 

[bobjustbob]

yup if you adjusted the minimum wage for "real" cost of living increases the minimum wage should be about 20 dollars, you can't go buy the CPI when trying to figure out how much real cost of living increases should be, the fact is while inflation (rising prices due to the expansion of the money supply) has gone up massively since Nixon took the US completely off of a gold standard in 1971 (the total supply of money in 1980 was 1 trillion), the wages of most americans has not kept pace

First a thanks to Xfire for seeing a competition in the industry for our dollars. I hope it happens but I will remain reserved and skeptical. You talk about the 70's and 80's and the 60's have been mentioned. A lot has been added to our household budget. Cable and all of those extra boxes, cell for the entire family, gaming systems. What has the standard of living been escalated to as far as necessities? Food and rent are basic and will have their their costs rise with inflation. But heap those things that have now that have become necessities and we just have added burdens of social necessities. Look, when I decide to take a trip I'll map it out. Make stops and keep sure that I continue on the right direction. GPS is flawed an so I don't use it. Ask a local I always get there. We don't need all of the things that we think we need.

 

[HehehehehehehehehehahaHyena]

GPS is flawed an so I don't use it. Ask a local I always get there.

Offtopic:
Oh yes, oh fuck yes and oh yes. This is so true.

Back on topic:
We certainly don't need a lot of things that people regard as necessities (eg gaming stations).
You need food, somewhere to sleep and a smartphone to help you look for jobs (it also doubles up as your TV, gaming platform, and more) and recieve phone calls, emails, etc from employers.

 

[Mariahxxx]

Bob, even the republicans recognize Elizabeth warren as an economist. how do her numbers not ad up? she cited the study that was done and you heard the explanation by the man who headed up the research.

 

[bobjustbob]

Offtopic:
Oh yes, oh fuck yes and oh yes. This is so true.

Back on topic:
We certainly don't need a lot of things that people regard as necessities (eg gaming stations).
You need food, somewhere to sleep and a smartphone to help you look for jobs (it also doubles up as your TV, gaming platform, and more) and recieve phone calls, emails, etc from employers.

Okay, you got me there. Yea, $45 mo. gives us lots of things including stuff to make our lives better.

Mariah, her numbers don't add up. Point me in the right direction. Show me this $22 hr. thing. How does this come about as a...an...anything?

 

[bobjustbob]

Sorry, couldn't catch the edit. 4 cents on a burgher compounded over the life of McDonalds chains still doesn't add up to that magical figure. Who are you, madam or mister, that crunched those numbers? You don't think these places should be in business for their business practices? Shut them all down. Close them today. No more McAnything. Go find another job for the 3 million that serve and being served by them. Ringing a register is not a career. You are paid for what you produce, right? You are an entrepreneur. If you had talent that didn't generate subscriptions would you keep them?

 

[Master Roshi]

Sorry, couldn't catch the edit. 4 cents on a burgher compounded over the life of McDonalds chains still doesn't add up to that magical figure. Who are you, madam or mister, that crunched those numbers? You don't think these places should be in business for their business practices? Shut them all down. Close them today. No more McAnything. Go find another job for the 3 million that serve and being served by them. Ringing a register is not a career. You are paid for what you produce, right? You are an entrepreneur. If you had talent that didn't generate subscriptions would you keep them?

yes it is true that the US economy for the most part runs on consumerism, NAFTA and GATT, helped this along a great deal unfortunately, but the root of this problem lies in the authority that has the power to issue the nation's money which is the private federal reserve bank of NY, wages have not kept up with cost of living because of the continued and rapid expansion of the US dollar, the more of these digital green papers that enter circulation, the less valuable the ones that are already in circulation become which means higher prices over the long term because its cost more dollars to by the same amount of goods, it seems like many who talk about the economy want to dance around the main cause of the woes which is the private federal reserve, the minimum wage should be around 20 -25 dollars an hour, a working person in the 60s and early 70s had more purchasing power than working people do today, for example, a silver quarter being worth about 5 dollars today, a silver dollar and a silver quarter totaled equals 25 dollars today (remember workers used to get paid in real silver quarters, dimes and halves and the US is still currently operating under the legal fiction that a silver dollar has the exact same value as a federal reserve note, this is why up til this day you can walk into a bank with a 1921 Saint Gaudens 10 dollar gold piece and exchange it for a 10 dollar federal reserve note, now I would not recommend you do that because you can't get the 10 dollar gold piece back), after Nixon closed the gold window in 1971, the first batch of inflation hit, prices went up by 1000 percent over a 10 year period but wages only increased by 200 percent, now couple this with the exporting, offshoring and downsizing of the middle range and manufacturing jobs (shipped over seas), which did give us cheaper goods and help to slow down inflation, but it also allowed the fed to expand the money supplies even further which did lessen the purchasing value of the dollar, basically a working person today has to make 20-25 dollars an hour to equal the purchasing power that a person had back in 1967, remember the working man of 1967 was able to go to work and make enough money in a week to support himself, his wife and his kids, all on his salary, fast forward into the late 70s, early 80s, families realized that one salary was not enough, hence the wife had to go out and work and even the kids, when of age, started to go out and work to support the one family, you see by reducing the substance of money without reducing the physical form of money, the bankers have fooled a generation, people see that their wages have not kept up with the rate of inflation but they don't understand why, the people see that their parents might have earned 2 dollars an hour and were more comfortable and they might currently be earning 14 dollars and hour but they don't understand why it is so hard for them to keep up with the cost of living and many believe that is it their fault, when in point of fact, its not the working person's fault but the fault of the authority that issues and controls the currency in which that person is paid for his or her productivity, not to mention new and higher taxes that have been levied throughout the years as well