Even if you don't like Palin

[girk1]

A) It's not just the woman's choice, IMO (with the exception of rape)

Well Sara "The Church Lady"Palin believes it is "murder" if you abort a baby even in the case of rape & incest.:eek:


And I believe IT IS a woman's choice. IT IS HER body. A man (sperm donor)should have absolutely no say(legally speaking) in what a woman decides to do with HER BODY. Why do some(self righteous Repubs) still want to control women?:dunno: Why do these same self righteous nuts want to legislate how others live their lives?

 

[bodie54]

I'm just the opposite. If me and the wife (which I don't have btw) are buying a house and I pay the mortgage than I consider it to be my house.

Well my friend, I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but that philosophy will lower your potential wife pool by about 90% LOL

 

[ToastedOats]

Or how about "Even if you don't like Lindsay Lohan" maybe she's right lol.Just because people are very flawed which most are does not mean that sometimes they can not be right.

And I would just say on this idea that it's not just a womans right to control her body under any and all circumstances that I find that sexist and patriachial and unacceptable.You want to have a baby find a woman who will voluntarlily be willing to carry it for you.But men have no right try to force a woman to carry a pregnancy to term.And for that matter other women (Sarah Palin as an example) should have no right to dictate to another woman eitheir whether they wish to reproduce.

I think you've missed the point. The reason behind the "archaic" belief that a woman shouldn't have an abortion is due to the belief that the baby is alive and you'd be murdering it be sucking it out with a vacuum. That is her belief.

opinions are like assholes...you know how the saying goes.

Kind of like what do assholes and 9V batteries have in common? Even though you know you're not supposed to do it, you'll end up sticking your tongue on them.

"I really cannot bite my tongue anymore when it comes to Sarah Palin," Lohan writes, urging people to vote for Sen. Barack Obama. "Is it a sin to be gay? Should it be a sin to be straight? Or to use birth control? Or to have sex before marriage? Or even to have a child out of wedlock?"

I doubt Lohan is actually gay. She's out of the limelight due to her no longer being jailbait just like the Olsen twins. She's looking for attention and should have gotten it when she should have been locked up for many different law violations.

I hate how everything is more important when a celebrity says it, and that they don't do the same punishment that some crackhead does.

 

[hedonis]

Spleen was the only one to capture most of what I was saying. Certainly, she can have her opinion (even if she's just aping off other celebrities now that it's safe for them to hate Palin), and certainly, she can express that opinion, and reporters can cover her opinion.

BUT...

I think this is going to haunt a lot of celebrities eventually. It seems to be reaching a fever pitch with how absolutely crass and angry a lot of them are getting, and what I think a lot of them have forgotten is that most movie goers, buyers of music, concert-goers, etc. are just regular joes and janes.

They go to concerts and listen to music and watch TV and movies because they want to escape from the constant and ever-increasing bombardment of news media. Who watches a movie like "Transformers" to get deep, political social commentary?

But the problem is, you cannot escape politics and all the anger associated with them even going to movies or watching TV anymore. Musicians as well, are just increasingly blathering their views and opinions on people who- for the most part- didn't buy a concert ticket to get preached at.

All I'm saying is, why don't these people stick more to entertaining? We'd probably get better work out of them. And yes, I'm irritated with Lohan- an untalented coke whore who once had a big rack that made her famous, who now tries to stay relevant by doing outrageous things. She's not gay, she's just losing fame, and needs a way to stay in the news.

Maybe she could make a sequel to that really awesome "Just my Luck" flick.

Or maybe not.

So again- I'd just like entertainers to stick to that. I don't know why that's such a problem. :dunno:

H

 

[Facetious]

LA County Police Chief Bratton (formerly NYC PD Chief)
talks about Lindsey
and doggone it, she rebuts !

:rofl:


Point well made "H". :yesyes: Do the Obama operatives really think that the're going to get some mileage out of this one ?
They must think very lowly of their constituencies' intelligence !
That's all I got ~

 

[ChefChiTown]

Well Sara "The Church Lady"Palin believes it is "murder" if you abort a baby even in the case of rape & incest.:eek:


And I believe IT IS a woman's choice. IT IS HER body. A man (sperm donor)should have absolutely no say(legally speaking) in what a woman decides to do with HER BODY. Why do some(self righteous Repubs) still want to control women?:dunno: Why do these same self righteous nuts want to legislate how others live their lives?

The man doesn't really have any legal say in what happens in the case of abortion.

Yes, it's her body, but it takes two to make that baby. To me, a man isn't just a "sperm donor"...he's the biological father to the child, which makes his opinion pretty important, IMO. It's not like he's just depositing something into a safe lock-box and leaving it at that.

If you walk into a bank and deposit $1,000 into your account and then 2 weeks later you try and withdraw it but the bank says "No, the money is in our building and I can do whatever I want with it now"...wouldn't you be a little pissed?

Same goes for "donating" sperm and making a baby.

 

[girk1]

The man doesn't really have any legal say in what happens in the case of abortion.

Yes, it's her body, but it takes two to make that baby. To me, a man isn't just a "sperm donor"...he's the biological father to the child, which makes his opinion pretty important, IMO. It's not like he's just depositing something into a safe lock-box and leaving it at that.

If you walk into a bank and deposit $1,000 into your account and then 2 weeks later you try and withdraw it but the bank says "No, the money is in our building and I can do whatever I want with it now"...wouldn't you be a little pissed?

Same goes for "donating" sperm and making a baby.

What is with the "house" &"Bank" analogies to women? :dunno: Goes to show you how Pro Lifers/Republicans like to OBJECTIFY women right? Why do you guys insist on OBJECTIFYING women? Women are not OBJECTS to be manipulated & should be allowed to make their own decisions about THEIR bodies. What is so difficult about this concept?:dunno:

Although I believe McCain & The Church Lady will win I am certain a Democratic congress will not allow them to appoint self righteous Judges to the bench.

As I mentioned earlier it is FACT that the Republican Party was the refuge(after LBJ siged Civil Rights & Voting Rights ACTS of 1964) of Southern White Supremist/Segregationist/Bible thumpers. I am certain that many of those self rightheous Repubs would have second thouughts about abortion if someone who looks like Obama impregnated their little Princess. Or maybe not I guess some would kick her in the tummy themselves:dunno:

 

[ChefChiTown]

What is with the "house" &"Bank" analogies to women? :dunno: Goes to show you how Pro Lifers/Republicans like to OBJECTIFY women right? Why do you guys insist on OBJECTIFYING women? Women are not OBJECTS to be manipulated & should be allowed to make their own decisions about THEIR bodies. What is so difficult about this concept?:dunno:

How is comparing situations and making an analogy "objectifying" a woman? :dunno:

Oh, and men aren't objects either. Having the mentality of "it's their body" and taking away any sort of feelings, emotions, morals and values that the man has, is doing nothing but making that man...you guessed it...an object.

OBJECT:

Something perceptible by one or more of the senses, especially by vision or touch; a material thing.

Oooooh, the irony.

(Obviously, in the situation of rape, it's a completely different story)

 

[girk1]

How is comparing situations and making an analogy "objectifying" a woman? :dunno:

Oh, and men aren't objects either. Having the mentality of "it's their body" and taking away any sort of feelings, emotions, morals and values that the man has, is doing nothing but making that man...you guessed it...an object.



Oooooh, the irony.

(Obviously, in the situation of rape, it's a completely different story)

Not according to your new overnight hero & anti Obama hope, Palin.

No men aren't objects ,but humans with CHOICES of their own. He can choose to LEAVE a woman if he cannot control her reproduction as ProLifers/republicans wish to do. CHOOSE a woman with values similiar to his own & who doesn't mind getting PERMISSION from others about what to do with HER body.

You say The "Mentality of it's their body'? News alert: It IS THEIR BODIES buddy.

If it's up to controlling Prolifers/Repubs like you McCain/Palin I will invest in the CLOTHES HANGER busines. No need in having a woman use poor quality /dirty clothes hangers to get that abortion she so desperately wants on HER own body..

 

[ChefChiTown]

No men aren't objects ,but humans with CHOICES of their own. He can choose to LEAVE a woman if he cannot control her reproduction as ProLifers/republicans wish to do.

True. But, she can also choose to be responsible and not get pregnant in the first place. Yes, the man could've been responsible as well...but it was a consensual decision to have sex in the first place (which makes both parties completely responsible for what happens afterwards; ie - pregnancy) and it should be a consensual decision to keep the child or not.

You say The "Mentality of it's their body'? News alert: It IS THEIR BODIES buddy.

Her body...THEIR baby. It's not her body that is the important thing. There's a child involved. Not her child, not his child...THEIR child.

 

[meesterperfect]

man your not gonna get through, men are simply sperm donors to many in society and legal system today, no rights, no say, only the burden to pay.

 

[girk1]

Her body...THEIR baby. It's not her body that is the important thing. There's a child involved. Not her child, not his child...THEIR child.

It's not her body That's important you say?:eek: Man that is mighty sexist of you.
Funny how Republican Bible Thumpers claim they want(Although Bush has wasted more tax payer money than any Democrat) complete indepence when it comes financial matters ,but they want to control you when it comes to social issues. :dunno:

I wish Republican/Bible Thumpers/Segregationist/Supremist would stay out of our personal lives.

 

[ChefChiTown]

It's not her body That's important you say?:eek: Man that is mighty sexist of you.

Yes, I'm a huge, disgusting sexist for putting the value of a CHILD'S LIFE over the superficial "importance" of a woman's body.

Give birth to a beautiful child and give it a wonderful life? Boooooooo!!!
:nono:

Kill an innocent child to avoid gaining weight and obtaining some stretch marks? Yeeeeeeeah!!!
:jump:

 

[girk1]

Yes, I'm a huge, disgusting sexist for putting the value of a CHILD'S LIFE over the superficial "importance" of a woman's body.

Give birth to a beautiful child and give it a wonderful life? Boooooooo!!!
:nono:

Kill an innocent child to avoid gaining weight and obtaining some stretch marks? Yeeeeeeeah!!!
:jump:

Birth to a beautiful child to a welfare mother who Repiblicans despise & want to pull the rug from beneath:dunnowelfare reform).
Yeah What a beautiful ghetto living,drug infested,HIV positive, gang banging,neglectful existence! I wish we could all be so lucky!
Make a woman have a baby she doesn't want/can't afford & then scorn & ignore her once she has it & deny any financial assistance?

You self righteous/bible thumping/segregationist/Republicans are so swell:wave:

 

[ChefChiTown]

Make a woman have a baby she doesn't want/can't afford & then scorn & ignore her once she has it & deny any financial assistance?

What if the father could easily take care of the child?

You self righteous/bible thumping/segregationist/Republicans are so swell:wave:

I'm not self righteous.
I dont even own a bible, nor do I "thump" them.
I'm not a segregationist.
I don't take sides when it comes to political parties.

 

[girk1]

What if the father could easily take care of the child?



I'm not self righteous.
I dont even own a bible, nor do I "thump" them.
I'm not a segregationist.
I don't take sides when it comes to political parties.

It's a mindset & you are sadly infested with it by the sexism & self righteousness evident in your post. And you obviously sympathize with those self righteous clowns.

Well when he(a man) can ACTUALLLY have a BABY Himself let him have it! But no man nor government should ever force a woman or a man to do what they don't want to do. I see you dislike personal freedom.

What if the government tried to tell you what to do with your own person?

 

[ChefChiTown]

It's a mindset & you are sadly infested with it by the sexism & self righteousness evident in your post. And you obviously sympathize with those self righteous clowns.

Where in any of my posts do I say something remotely close to "I agree with what Sarah Palin says" or "Bible thumping Republicans are the best people ever"...???

Well when he(a man) can ACTUALLLY have a BABY Himself let him have it!

Well, when a woman can conceive a child without the presence of a man's sperm, then she can feel free to make every single decision in regards to the child that she wants to. Until then (which is never, because it will never happen), the father of the child should be involved with every single decision that is made.

But no man nor government should ever force a woman or a man to do what they don't want to do. I see you dislike personal freedom.

Just because a man shares his opinions, feelings and beliefs when it comes to his wife/girlfriend getting an abortion, that doesn't force the woman to do anything. He is just simply putting in his two cents, which, in your mind, are worthless.

Personal freedom is great...but, it is that same personal freedom (which allows you to have sex with whoever you want) that puts men and women into situations of abortion in the first place.

What if the government tried to tell you what to do with your own person?

They already do. If I want to snort cocaine and put drugs into my body, I can't legally do it because the government says so. I couldn't legally put alcohol into my body until I was 21. People can't buy cigarettes and inhale chemicals into their body until they're 18...

But, once again, it's not about the woman's body...it's about the child that is inside of it.

Abortion is a subject that will never have a definitive right or wrong answer. No matter how "opposed" our points of view are, that is something I think we can all agree on.

 

[Friday on my mind]

Just because a man shares his opinions, feelings and beliefs when it comes to his wife/girlfriend getting an abortion, that doesn't force the woman to do anything. He is just simply putting in his two cents, which, in your mind, are worthless.

Here is the real issue that needs to be answered yes or no.While as I said earlier depending on the relationship the two have, the woman listening ,considering the man's feelings etc. is great idea, but only if she chooses to do that.The question is legally should the man have any right if she makes a choice he is not happy with to do anything to block her exercising her choice.If you are saying no he shouldn't then there is no real arguement hear I think.Ultimately it should and is entirely her choice right?

But, once again, it's not about the woman's body...it's about the child that is inside of it.

Abortion is a subject that will never have a definitive right or wrong answer. No matter how "opposed" our points of view are, that is something I think we can all agree on.

And to be accurate they are not baby's or children untill they are born.Before that they are a fetus.Abortion legally is not murder,some don't like that but it is the case and a fetus is not a human being with rights legally.But for sure abortion is one of those issues that there may never be a lot of agreement on.The problem arrises when one group tries to force their viewpoint on others.reminds me of a great T-shirt I saw once that said "Against abortion,don't have one".These are choices that need to be left to the individual (the woman) to make as to what is right for them.

 

[girk1]

Where in any of my posts do I say something remotely close to "I agree with what Sarah Palin says" or "Bible thumping Republicans are the best people ever"...???



Well, when a woman can conceive a child without the presence of a man's sperm, then she can feel free to make every single decision in regards to the child that she wants to. Until then (which is never, because it will never happen), the father of the child should be involved with every single decision that is made.



Just because a man shares his opinions, feelings and beliefs when it comes to his wife/girlfriend getting an abortion, that doesn't force the woman to do anything. He is just simply putting in his two cents, which, in your mind, are worthless.

Personal freedom is great...but, it is that same personal freedom (which allows you to have sex with whoever you want) that puts men and women into situations of abortion in the first place.



They already do. If I want to snort cocaine and put drugs into my body, I can't legally do it because the government says so. I couldn't legally put alcohol into my body until I was 21. People can't buy cigarettes and inhale chemicals into their body until they're 18...

But, once again, it's not about the woman's body...it's about the child that is inside of it.

Abortion is a subject that will never have a definitive right or wrong answer. No matter how "opposed" our points of view are, that is something I think we can all agree on.

Well I also agree that the war on drugs is a joke & another issue you & your buddies(Repubs/Self righteous clowns) wanna control. If you read my posts I have said individual adult behavior(drugs) & behavior between consenting adults(prostitution) should not be illegal.

Pornstars can get paid to swallow fifty loads, do 500 man gangbangs & generally do things that would make a two dollar crack whore cringe ,but prostitution is illegal:dunno:

Get over it ChiTown. You & your self righteous hypocritical buddies can no longer control women's behavior & it kills you.

 

[ChefChiTown]

Get over it ChiTown. You & your self righteous hypocritical buddies can no longer control women's behavior & it kills you.

How many more times are you going to try and insult me by calling me "self righteous" and saying that I'm "buddies" with "self righteous" bible thumping Republicans? :dunno:

I am positive that you don't really read my posts, you just skim over them and reply with ignorant and repetitive attempts at insults.

I've seen what the abortion issue can do to the people involved and trust me, it is not as simple as "it's her body, she can do what she wants". There are emotions, beliefs and morals involved that outweigh every single "physical" issue with deciding whether or not to have a child.

Just because the child isn't growing inside of them doesn't mean that those people don't get hurt.

Here is the real issue that needs to be answered yes or no.While as I said earlier depending on the relationship the two have, the woman listening ,considering the man's feelings etc. is great idea, but only if she chooses to do that.The question is legally should the man have any right if she makes a choice he is not happy with to do anything to block her exercising her choice.If you are saying no he shouldn't then there is no real arguement hear I think.Ultimately it should and is entirely her choice right?

It shouldn't be solely just her choice and it shouldn't be solely just his choice either. It should be a joint decision. "Ultimately", the woman has the legal right to do whatever she wants, but I don't morally agree with that. Personally, I also don't agree with that when it comes to two people getting pregnant due to consensual sex. I'm beating a dead horse, but, once again...rape is totally different story.

I'll try to explain my point of view in a different way (I thought of this while taking a shower )...

If a man has sex with a woman and she is willing, it is consensual sex. Both parties consented to the sex, rendering it consensual sex. Both parties had a say-so in what happened, as they both agreed on the decision that was made.

If a man has sex with a woman against her will, it is rape. Only one party consented to the sex, rendering it a rape. The woman had no say-so in what happened, as the man forced his decision upon her.

When it comes to abortion, the woman has the legal right to emotionally rape the father of the child and take away any say-so that he might have. It's not consensual when the man's feelings towards the issue are rendered completely meaningless and thrown away. Personally, I think that it is disrespectful to the man involved. The woman has every legal right to force her decision upon the man, raping him of the ability to do what he thinks is right.

Legally, our government is basically saying that men are nothing more than sperm donors. That, IMHO, is absolutely wrong and immoral.

I believe that abortions (with the exception of rape) should be a joint decision.

:2 cents:

Also, think of this, in regards to the "sperm donor" view...

If a woman is pregnant and wants to get an abortion but the man wants to keep it, the man has no legal ability to keep her from doing so. She can abort the baby and take away the opportunity for that man to be a father, against his will.

Now, if the woman is pregnant and doesn't want to get an abortion and the man wants to abort it, the man has no legal ability to keep her from having the child. But, here's the shitty part...up until the birth of the child, from a legal stand point, the man has been nothing more than a "sperm donor". He has had absolutely no legal right to do "what's best" for the child and has to deal with whatever decision the woman makes. Once that baby is born, however, he is now legally obligated to be responsible for the child. The government steps in and makes him do "what's best" for the child, against his will. The man is forced, once again, to live with the decision that was solely made by the woman.

This is just my personal opinion on the matter, but that isn't fair. I know that life, in general, isn't fair, but that is some serious bullshit IMHO.

"No, you can't make any decisions in regards to your unborn child."

-9 months later-
-The baby is born-

"Ok, now that the baby is born, we're going to make all of your decisions for you. We are going to garnish wages from your paycheck in order to pay for child support, which is going to financially cripple you until your child is 18 years old."

:dunno:

And to be accurate they are not baby's or children untill they are born.Before that they are a fetus.Abortion legally is not murder,some don't like that but it is the case and a fetus is not a human being with rights legally.But for sure abortion is one of those issues that there may never be a lot of agreement on.The problem arrises when one group tries to force their viewpoint on others.reminds me of a great T-shirt I saw once that said "Against abortion,don't have one".These are choices that need to be left to the individual (the woman) to make as to what is right for them.

I don't really know how I feel about the "when they become alive" issue. Nobody really knows for sure when the baby becomes a person and can start to feel pain, and no one ever will. It's just like trying to prove that plants can or can't feel pain. Nobody really knows. :dunno:

FYI - I completely understand both sides of this argument and why people have certain feelings towards the issue. Once again, abortion is an issue that has no right or wrong answer.