Earth's Atmosphere

[Tokaji]

Thanks, but I was helping @tvstrip. Hence why I quoted his post.

Well, you're just going to have to live with my appreciation for the information you provided. Even if it wasn't intended for me.
Thank you

 

[tvstrip]

I attended a talk by a delegate of an organization overseeing development in East/Horn of Africa. The worst of the worst - Eritrea, South Sudan, Somalia... You know it's bad when Uganda & Ethiopia are the best in your group.

Anyways, he was talking about migration factors, and while the usual war/conflict was still the main factor, he was warning that climate refugees are going to be the next big thing. Climate change in that region is resulting in massive drought in some regions, while others are getting floods resulting in land/mudslides. All of which are decimating food supplies, as well as making more land inhospitable. And it's driving people out of the region and creating even more refugees.

The thing is, climate isn't a recognized ground for refugee claims. And the big reason for that is because countries like the US still don't formally recognize it as real. Or real enough that it's a factor to accept refugees. It doesn't help if only the Dems accept it, because whenever the GOP takes power, that means every climate refugee will automatically have their claim rejected.

Tough spot.

 

[tvstrip]

(Just leaving this here as it's the closest we have to an environmentalism thread)

The Japanese Barely Eat Whale. So Why Do They Keep Whaling?
https://www.wired.com/2015/12/japanese-barely-eat-whale-whaling-big-deal/

Current Japanese whale consumption was spurred by the US:

AFTER WORLD WAR II shattered Japan’s economy, food was scarce and meat especially so. So General Douglas MacArthur, who effectively ruled Japan during the post-war Allied occupation, decided the Japanese should get protein from the sea. In 1946, he authorized two military tankers to become giant whaling ships and helped usher in a new era of industrial whaling in Japan. A generation of Japanese children grew up eating whale meat in school lunches.

Japan isn't the only country hunting whales - Norway is actually the top of the list.

The International Whaling Commission has banned commercial whale hunting since 1986, making an exception for scientific research. Japan obeys the letter, if not exactly spirit, of the ban by saying the 333 whales it plans to kill each year are purely for research. Iceland and Norway, on the other hand, object to the moratorium and continue to hunt whales commercially without using science as an excuse.

So what's really behind resistance to the moratorium? From the Japanese perspective, banning whaling before banning the killing of other animals is a bit logically inconsistent:

If your argument is about conservation, then bluefin tuna, a far more important part of the Japanese diet, is also far more endangered. (Minke whales, the species Japanese whalers hunt, aren't even close to endangered, though the IWC claims minke whale numbers have fallen in recent decades.)

If your argument is that hunting whales is cruel, so is factory farming. If your argument is that whales are smart, so are pigs. None of this amounts to a case for eating whales, of course, but the argument to single out whales for protection is not exactly airtight either.

So “saving the whale” may be irrational, but so is saving the panda or the polar bear or any other cute mammal. Activism rides on symbolic actions. And just as the whale has become symbolic for environmental groups like Greenpeace, it has, in response, become symbolic for the Japanese, too. “The strong condemnation of whaling by the foreigners is taken as harassing the traditional values,” says Kobayashi. The Japanese government now heavily subsidizes whaling to the tune of $50 million a year.

Basically, it's only an issue because conservationists are making it one. People don't like being vilified or being told what to do. More to the point, whaling in Japan is declining anyways:

By and large though, adds Kobayashi, the typical Japanese attitude toward whaling as a political issue is ambivalent and whale meat as food is indifferent. Japan’s plan to kill 333 whales year is already drastically down from the previous annual target of 1,000. Cwiertka also points out that most of the people in high levels of Japanese government are older men---men old enough to have grown up eating whale meat as schoolchildren. Whale meat is already on the decline, with or without international meddling.

So it's basically it's only an issue because the tree huggers can make money by vilifying the Japanese and duping gullible idiots into giving them money to fight this "evil".

 

[D-rock]

(Just leaving this here as it's the closest we have to an environmentalism thread)

The Japanese Barely Eat Whale. So Why Do They Keep Whaling?
https://www.wired.com/2015/12/japanese-barely-eat-whale-whaling-big-deal/

Current Japanese whale consumption was spurred by the US:


Japan isn't the only country hunting whales - Norway is actually the top of the list.



So what's really behind resistance to the moratorium? From the Japanese perspective, banning whaling before banning the killing of other animals is a bit logically inconsistent:


Basically, it's only an issue because conservationists are making it one. People don't like being vilified or being told what to do. More to the point, whaling in Japan is declining anyways:


So it's basically it's only an issue because the tree huggers can make money by vilifying the Japanese and duping gullible idiots into giving them money to fight this "evil".

I don't think an animal being cuddly, cute, or making a good mascot, is a reasonable factor when it comes to conservationism. With that said, half the response is basically whataboutism. But, but, but...other people do it too, or but but...other things that are done by so and so are even worse. Those are logical fallacies not valid reasoning.

The other half ignores the fact that the reason Minke whales are the ones that are hunted is because DAMN NEAR MOST OTHER SPECIES OF THEM WERE HUNTED TO THE POINT OF NEARING COLLAPSE before that. They are hunted because they are what's left. Even then it probably took strict regulation to stop even the ones that were left from over harvesting. I'll have to be excused if I have a hard time believing that if things were to change people would honest to goodness truly no fooling this time pinky swear with sugar on top really do things right this time, and everything would be sustainable and non-damaging to the environment.

It should also be noted that whales are also a type of animal that can't reasonably be raised on farms for consumption, like say many species of fish, or chicken, or cows. Animals like that are even easier to screw up to the point of collapse. That's especially true when the past action has shown what future action could and probably look like.

I just don't get the polar bear or panda stuff. Those two animals are known for being in incredible danger of disappearing forever in the not so distant future predominantly due to human actively. The person bringing them up actually hurts their argument. It makes no sense.

 

[tvstrip]

A polar bear kills a woman and a boy in a remote Alaska village
https://www.npr.org/2023/01/18/1149729060/polar-bear-fatal-attack-alaska

The bear fatally attacked an adult female and juvenile male.
The bear was shot and killed by a local resident as it attacked the pair, troopers said.

Worst part is:

Biologists later said the animal showed signs of starvation, the Anchorage Daily News reported.
Alaska scientists at the U.S. Geological Survey in 2019 found changes in sea ice habitat had coincided with evidence that polar bears' use of land was increasing and that the chances of a polar bear encounter had increased.

In other words, the ice is melting, forcing the bears inland in search of food.

 

[tvstrip]

In light of the wildfire crisis in North America, throwing this out there:

https://natural-resources.canada.ca...nsects-disturbances/climate-change-fire/13155

The occurrence, frequency and behaviour of wildland fires have varied greatly over time and space, chiefly as a result of the complicated influences of climate change and climate variability.

It's up for debate, but at least worth considering that they are related.

 

[Mr. Daystar]

A polar bear kills a woman and a boy in a remote Alaska village
https://www.npr.org/2023/01/18/1149729060/polar-bear-fatal-attack-alaska



Worst part is:

In other words, the ice is melting, forcing the bears inland in search of food.

Actually, polar bears are the only land mammal that will actively hunt man for food. While other creature smell us and think, I would rather not have anything to do with that, polar bears think, dinners served!

 

[maildude99]

Ahhhh....finally found an environmental thread. In that vein, you guys can believe in and argue about whatever you want. But every day I look at the news on at least four different formats. Unprecedented weather, animal attacks at national parks, volcanic and tectonic activity...the shit just keeps piling up, folks. And, no. It's not just the Age Of The Internet. The media blitz started long before computers. The fact is that Mother Nature is screaming in our ears, and it makes me wince like I swallowed a lemon that so many people write it off. We can hear her screams, or we can fucking argue about it. But it's happening. Something's happening. In my more than fifty years of life I have not seen anything like the environmental and natural mashups on the order they have been occurring for the last twenty or so years. Nothing. I said nothing like this has happened in my lifetime. And everyone in my generation has noticed it...even the ones who like to argue about why it's going on. Where is this all going to lead? I don't know. But I don't like the trajectory or the timeline. My advice to anyone is to be conscious of our planet. Maybe change your tendencies a little bit. Couldn't hurt. Could surely help.

 

[Theopolis Q. Hossenffer]

Ahhhh....finally found an environmental thread. In that vein, you guys can believe in and argue about whatever you want. But every day I look at the news on at least four different formats. Unprecedented weather, animal attacks at national parks, volcanic and tectonic activity...the shit just keeps piling up, folks. And, no. It's not just the Age Of The Internet. The media blitz started long before computers. The fact is that Mother Nature is screaming in our ears, and it makes me wince like I swallowed a lemon that so many people write it off. We can hear her screams, or we can fucking argue about it. But it's happening. Something's happening. In my more than fifty years of life I have not seen anything like the environmental and natural mashups on the order they have been occurring for the last twenty or so years. Nothing. I said nothing like this has happened in my lifetime. And everyone in my generation has noticed it...even the ones who like to argue about why it's going on. Where is this all going to lead? I don't know. But I don't like the trajectory or the timeline. My advice to anyone is to be conscious of our planet. Maybe change your tendencies a little bit. Couldn't hurt. Could surely help.

If you think its bad now just wait till Donald comes back.