Theopolis Q. Hossenffer
I am in America, not of it.
No good deed goes unpunished. Where is Wayne Le Pierre to give thought and prayers?
Don't Ever Trust Cops. Always Record Them!
- Thread starter Straight Shooter
- Start date
This will continue to happen when people allow the state to have the monopoly on using force - reduce their powers reduce their budget and defund and disarm the pigs.
No amount of training or funding will change things, the pigs budget had always gone up despite social problems never decreasing - time to stop the insanity, time to reimagine policing as we know it and stop being afraid to find better solutions.
gmase
On the dark side of the moon
Ummm ... . I think you overlooked something here.
A citizen kills a cop, another citizen then kills the killer. A cop killed one citizen. Non-state actors killed two of the 3 individuals who died here.
I am fairly certain that implies the state does not have a monopoly on force. Citizens kill each other more frequently than the state does.
gmase
On the dark side of the moon
Which party wants to defund police now!
Gotta love Chris Wallace: https://thehill.com/homenews/media/...nterview-with-gop-lawmaker-arent-you-the-ones
Gotta love Chris Wallace: https://thehill.com/homenews/media/...nterview-with-gop-lawmaker-arent-you-the-ones
Totally disagree with you. Monopoly does not imply making it impossible for others to do same - it means total defacto control over something.
The state controls the use of force by using force themselves and regulating the use of force by all - by all included regulating the state and regulating the public.
People that violate the regulations of the state are subjected to force being used on then my the state.
That the my point about the monopoly on use of force - similar to what Desmond Cole says in the CBC video I posted above.
So, to your point that people still kill each other despite the state prohibiting it - I point out that does not change fact that the only ones that can use force whenever they please is the state, because they are the ones that regulate and decide who can use it legally and who uses it illegally.
Sure people kill other, but that is illegal, as regulated by the state. The state kills people, but that is legal, as regulated by the state - this is my point.
gmase
On the dark side of the moon
Disagree with me all you want. Here's the fact, you stated:
I pointed out that two citizens had guns. The citizens have NOT ceded a monopoly of force to the state.
Citizens killing other citizens can be legal (e.g., self-defense). The state killing people can be illegal (e.g., excessive force).
Of course I disagree, here's what you stated which I quoted above, you say citizens have NOT ceded a monopoly to the state - you should note that monopolies do NOT have to be ceded to in order to exist, also defacto monopolies can exist as well.
The government for example is a monopoly over governing our countries whether we've ceded to it or not, people can say their forming their own governments by declaring whatever they want just like trumptards are doing and they can even declare civil war just like they did at the capital on January 6th - they call it revolution, but in fact it was insurrection, because it's a monopoly which is the government deciding and controlling what is and isn't legal.
You pointed out two citizens had guns, I agree they had guns, but what does that have to do with monopolies? If you inferring that because they had guns it proves that the state doesn't have the monopoly on force, consider that monopoly doesn't mean it's not possible to do something against the monopoly, the monopoly on force is proven by the fact that it is the government that decides if those two citizens possessing guns were doing so legally or illegally - being the sole decider of what is legal or illegal over everything is what makes something a monopoly or not, sole control of decisions that effect the entire market is what makes something a monopoly or not.
You said citizens killing each other can be legal such as self defence, I agree - and you should also agree it's the state that decided if it is legal or not, thereby it is the state not the citizen that decides whether their actions will be punished with force or not, only a monopoly can exert control over decisions that effect us all.
You said the state killing people can be illegal, I agree - and you should also agree that it's the state through courts and judges that decide if state actions that kill people are illegal, just like what happened to that goof chauvin killing George Floyd. I'll point out again that it is because the state has this monopoly on force that people were too scared to physically help George Floyd against the state representative kneeling on his neck - because thay knew that they could be killed next by the same state actors.
So, hopefully you see that the state owned monopoly on force doesn't means they've somehow magically made it impossible for people other than the state to use force - it just means that they don't allow any use of force without their prior consent, consent being expressed in the laws they've previously enacted including the Charter of Rights and Freedoms or the American Constitution, meaning that if you do something against their laws the state will persecute you through use of force.
Even if you do something totally legal they could still use force on you including putting you on trial and in jail before you are exonerated by the only ones who can decide if your were within their laws - again it is the state who will decide it for you.
If that's not a monopoly, provide examples of what is a monopoly in comparison.
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gmase
On the dark side of the moon
First off, a very good and thoughtful post.
For purposes of continuing this discussion I will agree with you that the state has a monopoly on force.
What is the alternative to a monopoly then? How does that work? I'm talking practically - not just theoretical.
I can generally agree with your statement, but your use of the pejorative 'pigs' illustrates why there is a messaging issue.
It is time to re-imagine policing. Policing does not necessarily cause the problem. Policing does cause some problem, but their reactions are also the result of other problems. Policing is not a one-size-fits-all approach. What works in my community, may not work elsewhere. What works elsewhere, may not work in my community.
You are correct, we need to find better solutions. Using 'pigs' is the wrong way to start. Language matters and this automatically turns off the support of people looking for common sense solutions.
Thank you, I've read many of your posts and your posting is thoughtful and well written.
I think the word pig is fair to use describing abusers of power such as bad cops, whereas I would not call good cops pigs, in fact I do appreciate good cops - but the facts show that good cops are often bullied and made to quit their jobs by the pigs of society. If there were no pigs and only good cops, there would not be the pig culture so prevalent today worldwide.
I agree that words matter, I always try to choose my words carefully, I think it's important that people accept that the majority of cops are pigs - definitely not all, but from my experience and from what is reported worldwide I cannot imagine that the opposite is true. I suspect that good cops are under constant stress from the pressure from pigs who are their superiors or coworkers - many good cops just leave the force, bullied out by the bad cops.
Reimagining policing, first off is to make it less militaristic, that would change the entire culture of policing - that is why pigs are resistant to it, the power associated with military power is what pigs need want and thrive on, many people are pigs before they join the police they are power abusers seeking to join a gang that has the same culture and beliefs. The police had become a gang itself with its own gang culture.
The pig culture must change, police culture must change, I think the best way is for policing to be replaced with peacekeeping - nobody likes to be policed, the word policing is adversarial to begin with and promotes the us vs them culture that pigs use as their favorite propaganda tactic.
Nobody likes the parking police or the bylaw police etc giving them grief over their lawn needing mowing or paying for parking or whatever, so instead of policing I suggest peacekeeping.
I don't have all the answers, and obviously any change will have unexpected results, but I believe that any change away from the spread of pig culture is worth it.
Peacekeeping, in my view, would mean more peacekeepers out on the streets and neighborhoods proactively keeping the peace, instead of police just showing up afterwards to pick up the pieces.
Peacekeeping would mean not wasting resources on victimless incidents such as drugs prostitution etc, in those situations if there are victims they would have to ask for help from peacekeepers to take them out of whatever situation their in - no more calling on the pig gang to help get revenge on others.
In peacekeeping, current pig powers would be reduced as what Desmond Cole says in the CBC video I posted above, the role of the peacekeepers will be to keep the peace - not investigate or arrest or take sides etc.
Investigating and solving things like murders or theft or fraud etc, will be given to the forensic specialists and those reports will be made public as they investigate to promote government transparency and trust - pretty much the same people doing it now but without the secrecy.
Investigating will focus on fact finding and truth seeing, instead of prosecuting and persecution.
I think I'll leave it there as is too long to describe every possibility, but to sum up the focus is to move away from the current pig culture and towards peacekeeping.
gmase
On the dark side of the moon
An interesting interview from NPR on Minneapolis - one-year after George Floyd's murder.
https://www.npr.org/2021/07/22/1019...een-the-defund-movement-and-violent-crimes-ri
"[A resident] points to a new plan for the city to send out civilian mental health professionals to certain kinds of crisis calls instead of cops. She calls this a utopia because she doubts mental health workers will want to go into certain neighborhoods without a police escort. When it comes to reimagining public safety, she says what Minneapolis really needs is both."
https://www.npr.org/2021/07/22/1019...een-the-defund-movement-and-violent-crimes-ri
"[A resident] points to a new plan for the city to send out civilian mental health professionals to certain kinds of crisis calls instead of cops. She calls this a utopia because she doubts mental health workers will want to go into certain neighborhoods without a police escort. When it comes to reimagining public safety, she says what Minneapolis really needs is both."
Theopolis Q. Hossenffer
I am in America, not of it.
You guys might like to check out this youtube channel
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCc-0YpRpqgA5lPTpSQ5uo-Q
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCc-0YpRpqgA5lPTpSQ5uo-Q
gmase
On the dark side of the moon
"You're about to die, my friend"
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/us-ne...p-fatally-shoots-suicidal-addict-head-arrest/
Handcuffed white guy killed in custody. This happened in 2019, but no charges will be filed against this officer.
https://www.sltrib.com/news/2021/07/22/west-valley-city-sergeant/
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/us-ne...p-fatally-shoots-suicidal-addict-head-arrest/
Handcuffed white guy killed in custody. This happened in 2019, but no charges will be filed against this officer.
https://www.sltrib.com/news/2021/07/22/west-valley-city-sergeant/
pigs...HA! HA!
They were just showing the community how cowardly pig culture really is - make as many excuses as you can when you run away like the cowardly pigs you are, pretending to be perfect and noble quietly accepting paycheck after paycheck of public tax dollars for your salaries while swearing oaths to serve and protect.
Now that their pig culture is exposed, on the plus side all the pig lovers who rise up to defend pig culture are exposed too - from pig loving posers in this thread to pig lovers world wide.
As the pig loving poser above posted, they were just showing the community what would happen if they weren't around or didn't have any means of protection - very true that those pigs that ran away did exactly the same as if they were disbanded or did not exist so this helps the defund/disband pigs movement since who except for pig lovers would try to convince others to pitch in their tax dollars to pay for guards that run away when they're needed?
Hey everyone listen to the pig loving poser🐷 above, let's all keep paying these cowards with our hard earned tax dollars to run away ahahaha🤌
Now that their pig culture is exposed, on the plus side all the pig lovers who rise up to defend pig culture are exposed too - from pig loving posers in this thread to pig lovers world wide.
As the pig loving poser above posted, they were just showing the community what would happen if they weren't around or didn't have any means of protection - very true that those pigs that ran away did exactly the same as if they were disbanded or did not exist so this helps the defund/disband pigs movement since who except for pig lovers would try to convince others to pitch in their tax dollars to pay for guards that run away when they're needed?
Hey everyone listen to the pig loving poser🐷 above, let's all keep paying these cowards with our hard earned tax dollars to run away ahahaha🤌
gmase
On the dark side of the moon
Theopolis Q. Hossenffer
I am in America, not of it.
Sigh.....
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