Communism

[Jeep!]

Capitalism has not failed.

So banks across the world didn't fold, currencies haven't faced collapse across several continents, superpower nations aren't in massive debt, there aren't thousands of millions of people in developed nations living in poverty and we aren't paying taxes to fund the people who keep this state of affairs going? Wow the view must being awful nice over there in fucking nowhere.

 

[meesterperfect]

I meant that all people would have similar opportunities for learning, health care etc.

Regarding the USA.
I'll use myself as an example. I'm from a middle class family. Both parents worked, paid their taxes and plenty of them, paid their bills and maintained a roof over our heads.
All this through work.
However when I went to college I was not eligible for any free education. I had to pay for it all by myself by working, and my family helped as much as they could.
But if I was poor because my parents didn't work all those years but instead lived off the taxpayers all i would have had to do was wake up, go to school and graduate high school.
from there i could have got grants and loans from the GOV and continued my education as far as i wanted to go.
So don't give me this " the poor have no opportunities in education crap. the poor in the US have more opportunity to education than the middle class, and have for years.
the laws are in place, the opportunity is there. but you can't force a person to take advantage of it.
Also, with the GOV willing to support people for life if they have kids they can't afford or because they get a doctor to say they are disabled ( did you know drug addiction and alcohol addiction are considered a disease here?) why would any of the poor choose to further their education and become independent?
the same goes for health care in this country. the poor have more access to it than the middle class and have for years.

 

[Jeep!]

Regarding the USA.
I'll use myself as an example. I'm from a middle class family. Both parents worked, paid their taxes and plenty of them, paid their bills and maintained a roof over our heads.
All this through work.
However when I went to college I was not eligible for any free education. I had to pay for it all by myself by working, and my family helped as much as they could.
But if I was poor because my parents didn't work all those years but instead lived off the taxpayers all i would have had to do was wake up, go to school and graduate high school.
from there i could have got grants and loans from the GOV and continued my education as far as i wanted to go.
So don't give me this " the poor have no opportunities in education crap. the poor in the US have more opportunity to education than the middle class, and have for years.
the laws are in place, the opportunity is there. but you can't force a person to take advantage of it.
Also, with the GOV willing to support people for life if they have kids they can't afford or because they get a doctor to say they are disabled ( did you know drug addiction and alcohol addiction are considered a disease here?) why would any of the poor choose to further their education and become independent?
the same goes for health care in this country. the poor have more access to it than the middle class and have for years.

Which is why truly socialistic approaches like Scotland's tertiary education (all subsidised, not means-tested at all) or the UK's healthcare system (none of this insurance bullshit, you pay taxes, they pay doctors, everyone gets the same free healthcare and it's good) are fair; what you've described is the kind of Kafkaesque nightmare that no one wants but that often comes about as a gradual compromise between warring sides rather than being put in place wholesale by believers in one ideal (case in point, the non-Scotland parts of the UK suffered when the three major parties politicised education, as a compromise between the left and right parties it's now a means-tested loan-based quagmire).

 

[meesterperfect]

your basic point about communism is shown here.
it doesn't take a former community organizer with a law degree who never practiced law with ties to known communists and marxist with questionable paternal ancestral lineage to see that it won't last for long, eventually the well will run dry and everybody will be broke and screwed.

 

[fatman0529]

Regarding the USA.
I'll use myself as an example. I'm from a middle class family. Both parents worked, paid their taxes and plenty of them, paid their bills and maintained a roof over our heads.
All this through work.
However when I went to college I was not eligible for any free education. I had to pay for it all by myself by working, and my family helped as much as they could.
But if I was poor because my parents didn't work all those years but instead lived off the taxpayers all i would have had to do was wake up, go to school and graduate high school.
from there i could have got grants and loans from the GOV and continued my education as far as i wanted to go.
So don't give me this " the poor have no opportunities in education crap. the poor in the US have more opportunity to education than the middle class, and have for years.
the laws are in place, the opportunity is there. but you can't force a person to take advantage of it.
Also, with the GOV willing to support people for life if they have kids they can't afford or because they get a doctor to say they are disabled ( did you know drug addiction and alcohol addiction are considered a disease here?) why would any of the poor choose to further their education and become independent?
the same goes for health care in this country. the poor have more access to it than the middle class and have for years.

I too come from a middle class family and had to pay for my own college education and I agree with much of what you say however to say that the poor have more of an opportunity is wrong. Go to a school in the poor inner city and then go to one in the suburbs. Two totally different worlds. The opportunities presented to middle and higher class kids at the k-12 level are greater and much more common than those at poor schools. From extra-curricular programs, class selection and quality of teachers, education is much better for middle and high class.

 

[meesterperfect]

ok. probably so.
the middle class pay more property tax too. and part of that property tax goes to pay for the cities schools too.
So the schools in the suburban areas are usually better, probably true.
the opportunities aren't better, but perhaps the education is.
But its pretty common knowledge that the high schools in the cities don't want to keep students back due to overcrowding, so they will pass most students just for showing up.
bottom line, the poor and lower middle class just have to graduate high school. from there due to their economic situation almost all can go to at least a community college or vocational program with grants and at worst loans. from that point on the excuse that all high schools aren't created equal doesn't apply.

btw this has been my main problem with most black leaders and so called role models over the years.
instead creating this blame whitey, blame the rich victim mentality, tell the kids - you have opportunity, you have the intelligence and the tools.
go out there and get it.

this guy for example: he came from nothing and look where he got to.

 

[Johan]

Communism is not the solution. Capitalism has not failed.
Not yet...
But capitalism should be regulated 'cause now, coporate interests have taken precedence over those of the people. This should be changed.
Corporations are not people. Corporations are made to bo useful to people, not the contrary.

 

[sean miguel]

Communism is not the solution. .

Sure it is. It just needs to be tried over and over until there's a different result.

 

[bobjustbob]

Communism is not the solution. Capitalism has not failed.
Not yet...
But capitalism should be regulated 'cause now, corporate interests have taken precedence over those of the people. This should be changed.
Corporations are not people. Corporations are made to be useful to people, not the contrary.

I can't believe that I am agreeing with you again. Let me add that it is not the corporate structure that fucks the people. it is the system that doesn't make clearly criminal people not pay for their acts. Bad decisions will make most companies fail but companies like JP Morgan Chase and the Jon Corzine shit are another story. There should be more criminal trials for these fucks that shifted people's money without their knowledge or consent into failed speculations. It's like if the scheme works 75% of the time then it's okay when it the other 25% doesn't.

Nothing is equal on this planet. Bugs eat plants. Animals eat bugs. Larger animals eat other animals. People are born into different worlds. Some have gifts that others don't. That is the world that was created for us. Survival of the fittest.

 

[288gto]

communism is a very human philosophic/sociologic solution for a society. i love communism, but will not stand for it, not now, because communism requires a high level of understanding and resposibility from the people, something that people don't have nowadays, so it's not time yet for it.
what lenin did was good, what stalin did was ruin all what lenin did. communism that we know from cold war wasn't communism. it was dictatorship going by name of communism, evil hiding behind a great ideology. even nowadays serbians claim to be communist-nationalists?! it's so contradictory, especially in countries where the church put's his nose into the government. communism is the last step leading to the next society without governments when we will be free from those parasites, but we still don't have that high intelligence to rule ourselves without governments, sadly.
so don't blame communism, blame the assholes dictators, biellorussia is still a dictatorship and no one says nothing for that.

 

[assari]

If people are equal class society problems disappear.

Entrepreneurs can operate safely if the goverment owns the basic production.

Irrational competition ends if countries agreed wages.

 

[Will E Worm]

Communism is not the solution. Freedom is the solution.

Sure it is. It just needs to be tried over and over until there's a different result.

Not at all. :nono:

If people are equal class society problems disappear.

Not at all.

Entrepreneurs can operate safely if the goverment owns the basic production.

Irrational competition ends if countries agreed wages.

The federal government needs to back off. People have the right to own private property.

 

[El Perro Mayor]

So banks across the world didn't fold, currencies haven't faced collapse across several continents, superpower nations aren't in massive debt, there aren't thousands of millions of people in developed nations living in poverty and we aren't paying taxes to fund the people who keep this state of affairs going? Wow the view must being awful nice over there in fucking nowhere.

Very well stated. :clap:

 

[meesterperfect]

communism kills incentive .
is this true?

 

[bobjustbob]

If people are equal class society problems disappear.

Entrepreneurs can operate safely if the government owns the basic production.

Irrational competition ends if countries agreed wages.

Do you really think in these simple terms? Give any thought before you make these statements? Please hammer out a few sentences to back up these views. Don't just put them out there looking for a reaction. Engage into the debate.

 

[assari]

Bob, those are just theories but why could they not also work in a practical level?

 

[SabrinaDeep]

So in your view people are not supposed to be equal?

People are supposed to have equal opportunities, not to be equal. Equality is for the beyond only.

 

[assari]

People are supposed to have equal opportunities, not to be equal. Equality is for the beyond only.

It may be that I understand wrong, but for me those two words (equal opportunities/equal) means the same thing.

 

[bobjustbob]

We are not born equal, we are all different. We are not here to be all the same because we were not all created the same. It is designed that each human is to achieve to their own individual potential. It's the same as plants and animals. If our creators didn't do it then what makes you thing any kind of governing can? What you want and say aren't theories, they are made up wishes.

 

[meesterperfect]

People are supposed to have equal opportunities, not to be equal. Equality is for the beyond only.

Heavy.

It may be that I understand wrong, but for me those two words (equal opportunities/equal) means the same thing.

c'mon assari, now your just fuckin with us.
let's see, from a fundamental right point of view.
In USA.
You are born.
You go to school. elementary, middle, high.
From that point you can explore your options. learn a trade, get a job, go to a college or university, get drunk get high get pregnant go on welfare, go on disability by geting 2 doctors to say youre too fucked up to work, go to colombia and teach english and have sex with beautiful women........the possibilities are endless.
And you can do either at any point in youre life really, if you plan it right.
Ass man, expect nobody to look out for youre best interest except you yourself. The GOV ain't gonna do it, nor should they.
Let me ask you, Who knows better about what's best for you? You yourself or Barack Obama?

Show me a scenario were one poor soul born into this world (at least in the US) has more or less opportunity than another.
maybe then we can answer youre query more accurately.