Communism

[BlueBalls]

Your children will live under communism

 

[vodkazvictim]

Capitalistic economies rise and fall like the tide. But the market economy has resiliency and can overcome the tough times. USA has that debt because the people that are lending to us have faith in a system that will pay them back. The reasons we got into that debt is for another discussion. The fact is that in this economic crisis we have been able to stabilize our economy in a very short time without the government taking away from the people like in communism.

The Free market is the best.
Unfortunately it's also impossible.

So the fact that every time there's an economic crisis the rich get massively richer and the poor massively poorer isn't "taking away from the people"?
You know in the 80s the gap beween rich and poor widened by about 20"?
Face it: Capitalism IS crisis.

I am no fan of Communism, it just never worked. It has been shown through history to be more like Feudalism. The poor (the middle class or less) are just subject to the lords or owners of property. Really is anyone interested in that?

Uhmmm...
What you're describing sounds much more like Capitalism to me. I suggest you read some definitions.

That's not unique to communism, that's totalitarianism and it's seen on both sides of the fence; once again we have someone who simply cannot tell the difference between ideology and the actions of some of its practitioners. I could go out today and strangle a puppy, is strangling puppies a fundamental tenet of being, say, an Irish nationalist?

Ho there you heathen mick
/blatant trolling
Yeah, it's pretty worthless trying to educate either of those two.

Your children will live under communism

They will live for it, Comrade.

 

[bobjustbob]

So you still haven't told us where this magical land is that communism works. The idea has been around since man first walked the earth. By this time someone would have made it work if it was feasible.

 

[assari]

Bob, and other capitalist.

One of the objectives of the communism is that people do not need to seek wealt because the funds will be distributed equally.

This does not mean that people would not have the right to...what is the right word...self fulfillment. (wtf)

Communist ideology also includes many other good intentions and it is good to know that the ancient people survive because they work together.

So it can be said that communism is a law of nature, man is supposed to be equal and communism is not the same thing as the Soviet Union.

I believe that communist revolution is going to happen in the future and it will be successful.

 

[eponymous]

Is it too early for Asshat of the Year nominations?

 

[assari]

Is it too early for Asshat of the Year nominations?

No. >;D

(I talking about this issue just at the theoretical level and I'm not try to be entirely serious)

 

[vodkazvictim]

So you still haven't told us where this magical land is that communism works. The idea has been around since man first walked the earth. By this time someone would have made it work if it was feasible.

If that's directed at me then I should make it clear that I already said it hasn't been succesfully practiced yet on a nation state scale (unless you want to look at people like the diggers).
In the beginning it's probable that people were Communist; everybody living and working together for the common good.
But when people get organised into groups as large as nation states then we start to see inequality of wealth eventually leading to capitalism.
You still haven't told us where this magical land is that capitalism works btw.

I believe that communist revolution is going to happen in the future and it will be successful.

If only.

Is it too early for Asshat of the Year nominations?

Probably not, ask the reigning arsehat, alex(cunt)pnz or Lirky.

 

[bobjustbob]

I told you USA is the shining example of capitalism. Communism, as admittedly by you, has never worked. Why do you and other communists keep insisting that it is better? People working together is essential to growth but at some point, way before nation state status, there must be leadership. The best decisions are not always made by the collective. Did you ever try to gather 6 people to agree to a movie? That shit takes forever and there is never a total agreement. 1 person picks their movie and it's either a hit or miss. If the same person consistently picks the better movies then they deserve extra credit. The group defers to their decisions and that benefits all. Thus it is better to have a leader.

You also need innovators and implementers. Not everyone is up to those tasks. What they do benefits all. The problem with you communists is that you can't accept that these special skills deserve rewards. When they turn their rewards into more benefits for people you get jealous because they get more rewards. Jealous to the point that you are ungrateful to those that do what you haven't done. You haven't built your perfect society under your terms yet because of this. You want all of the benefits of stuff that you can't do. With all of your collection of people with your shared thinking and people that you admire, you haven't accomplished shit. Haven't even gotten a start either. Don't blame anyone else for the things you can't do. You've had since the beginning of time to work out your plan. Accept the fact that communism doesn't work and move on with your lives. Work within the working system.

 

[Will E Worm]

I told you USA is the shining example of capitalism. Communism, as admittedly by you, has never worked. Why do you and other communists keep insisting that it is better?

Basically, they are trolls that like to stir things up. They aren't real communists.

Accept the fact that communism doesn't work and move on with your lives. Work within the working system.

:1orglaugh Wishful thinking. They can't move on and admit they are wrong.

 

[Jeep!]

That's rich coming from you, you spineless little weasel.

 

[georges]

I told you USA is the shining example of capitalism. Communism, as admittedly by you, has never worked. Why do you and other communists keep insisting that it is better? People working together is essential to growth but at some point, way before nation state status, there must be leadership. The best decisions are not always made by the collective. Did you ever try to gather 6 people to agree to a movie? That shit takes forever and there is never a total agreement. 1 person picks their movie and it's either a hit or miss. If the same person consistently picks the better movies then they deserve extra credit. The group defers to their decisions and that benefits all. Thus it is better to have a leader.

You also need innovators and implementers. Not everyone is up to those tasks. What they do benefits all. The problem with you communists is that you can't accept that these special skills deserve rewards. When they turn their rewards into more benefits for people you get jealous because they get more rewards. Jealous to the point that you are ungrateful to those that do what you haven't done. You haven't built your perfect society under your terms yet because of this. You want all of the benefits of stuff that you can't do. With all of your collection of people with your shared thinking and people that you admire, you haven't accomplished shit. Haven't even gotten a start either. Don't blame anyone else for the things you can't do. You've had since the beginning of time to work out your plan. Accept the fact that communism doesn't work and move on with your lives. Work within the working system.

The communists are like sheeps and can't even try to use reasoning nor logic. Don't bother to argue with them, it is a waste of time.

 

[vodkazvictim]

I told you USA is the shining example of capitalism. Communism, as admittedly by you, has never worked. Why do you and other communists keep insisting that it is better? People working together is essential to growth but at some point, way before nation state status, there must be leadership. The best decisions are not always made by the collective. Did you ever try to gather 6 people to agree to a movie? That shit takes forever and there is never a total agreement. 1 person picks their movie and it's either a hit or miss. If the same person consistently picks the better movies then they deserve extra credit. The group defers to their decisions and that benefits all. Thus it is better to have a leader.

You also need innovators and implementers. Not everyone is up to those tasks. What they do benefits all. The problem with you communists is that you can't accept that these special skills deserve rewards. When they turn their rewards into more benefits for people you get jealous because they get more rewards. Jealous to the point that you are ungrateful to those that do what you haven't done. You haven't built your perfect society under your terms yet because of this. You want all of the benefits of stuff that you can't do. With all of your collection of people with your shared thinking and people that you admire, you haven't accomplished shit. Haven't even gotten a start either. Don't blame anyone else for the things you can't do. You've had since the beginning of time to work out your plan. Accept the fact that communism doesn't work and move on with your lives. Work within the working system.

And we told you you're wrong; the U.S.A. got ahead because Europe's economy was destroyed by not one but two wars.
Look at the U.S.A. now; her economy is fucked, she's massively in debt.
Look at China who got ahead using a planned economy. Look how her economy is suffering as she tries to get more capitalist.

Because if it was given a chance it could be better. Remember that we have never seen a Communist society on nation-state scale (admittedly, the same can be said of capitalism).
Yes, leadership is sometimes necessary, but under capitalism such leadership is frequently counter-productive (Bob Diamond).
Worker's control is better, which is why major industry is nationalised when it's in difficulty.
True, the best decisions are not always made by the collective. Why don't you go ahead and tell me that a leader always makes the best decision?
What about going to war in Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan... How's that working out for you?
What about your auto industry? That succeeded because of the informed choices of it's leaders, it didn't need to be bailed out, right? Much better examples than your film example btw.

You do need innovators and implementors and you know what? Socialism does that better than capitalism, examples:
Tetris
Spaceflight
Barrel-launched ATGMs
AKM
off-boresight targetting
Now, it's more profitable to treat a disease than cure it, so I only wish I had an example of somebody giving the cure to a disease away for the greater good...

Uhm... yes, we can accept that they deserve rewards. Would you like to argue that Bill Gates deserves all his money because Windows is just so good now?
So... when we want to deny the bankers who wrecked our economy their bonusses, this is because of jealousy?
That's not the reason Communist society hasn't yet appeared.
Really? Are you really saying that the Soveiet Union (perhaps the closest thing to Communism we've seen, at times) has never accomplished anything?
Well in that case why is the West using the Soyuz rocket and a million other things that the Soviets created?

capitalism isn't a working system.
Open your eyes.

The communists are like sheeps and can't even try to use reasoning nor logic. Don't bother to argue with them, it is a waste of time.

Irony!!!
:rofl:

 

[assari]

The communists are like sheeps and can't even try to use reasoning nor logic. Don't bother to argue with them, it is a waste of time.

I do not think that anyone involved in the discussion is a communist.

 

[assari]

 

[bobjustbob]

So the only system that works to you is the one has never been successful. Thats like the guy that continues hitting his thumb while trying to drive a nail into a wall. 100 years of successful auto making. Rather than nationalize it they were given a loan and let them make their own decisions. Would you like me to pull that list of loans paid back from other companies to refresh your memory? It was paid back in less than 4 years. Up and running well. Don't say it is dying just because there is competition. I don't see those Russian cars denting the market do you? Where are their televisions, washing machines, toasters and other items that the people need and want? Barrel-launched ATGMs, AKM, off-boresight targeting. How is that helping the average working guy and his family in Russia?

Here you are back to the wars. What happened before then? Bill Gates? How many people collect paychecks because of him? How many people depend upon his products? As of 2007, Bill and Melinda Gates were the second-most generous philanthropists in America, having given over $28 billion to charity. They plan to eventually give 95% of their wealth to charity. Shall I go back and pull up that list of philanthropists again?

And jealous? You communists sure are. See a working system that you can't put together and it's deny, deny, deny. You're experts at what is wrong with nothing to show what is right. The war ended 68 years ago. Is that not enough time to implement your plan? You want to talk about fucked economies? Look in your own back yard. The EU isn't bailing out companies, it's trying to bail out whole nations. What do they have in common? Overly bloated social programs.

 

[assari]

I do not know other than that the capitalist system is not the most reasonable because it is based in the loan money and it remains only because there is no alternative.

The rich do not complain because they benefit from the current situation but excluded people want change.

It is wrong and dangerous to democracy that all the power and money is concentrated in very few hands!

 

[vodkazvictim]

So the only system that works to you is the one has never been successful. Thats like the guy that continues hitting his thumb while trying to drive a nail into a wall. 100 years of successful auto making. Rather than nationalize it they were given a loan and let them make their own decisions. Would you like me to pull that list of loans paid back from other companies to refresh your memory? It was paid back in less than 4 years. Up and running well. Don't say it is dying just because there is competition. I don't see those Russian cars denting the market do you? Where are their televisions, washing machines, toasters and other items that the people need and want? Barrel-launched ATGMs, AKM, off-boresight targeting. How is that helping the average working guy and his family in Russia?

Here you are back to the wars. What happened before then? Bill Gates? How many people collect paychecks because of him? How many people depend upon his products? As of 2007, Bill and Melinda Gates were the second-most generous philanthropists in America, having given over $28 billion to charity. They plan to eventually give 95% of their wealth to charity. Shall I go back and pull up that list of philanthropists again?

And jealous? You communists sure are. See a working system that you can't put together and it's deny, deny, deny. You're experts at what is wrong with nothing to show what is right. The war ended 68 years ago. Is that not enough time to implement your plan? You want to talk about fucked economies? Look in your own back yard. The EU isn't bailing out companies, it's trying to bail out whole nations. What do they have in common? Overly bloated social programs.

I'm open to a viable alternative. While you hypocritically say that capitalism works (making you your own example of the guy hitting his thumb), I remain open to alternatives.
You yourself decried the auto bailout (why not say it's just because of competition? Only competition makes capitalism work and capitalism strives to eliminate competition) in another thread if I remember correctly.

Admittedly Russian made goods aren't dominating the market; but american ones aren't either; chinese ones are.
Furthermore things were built to last in the Soviet Union. They're built to break under capitalism (I remember my Georgian Russian teacher saying "I thought things were supposed to be better under capitalism?" when her TV broke after 5 years. Her Soviet-built model lasted over 20).

Why not back to the wars? How good is capitalism at winning them? The Soviet Union knocked the shit out of capitalist Germany.
So you've gone from saying that capitalism provides superior products to saying that it provides jobs in attempting to justify it? So when people are employed under Socialism it doesn't count.
Lets have a look at the way Microsoft monopolises the market; the real question is how many people don't pick up paychecks because of them.
So what if they give to charity? They almost certainly do it to avoid tax.
Even then, charity is really bloody stupid; governments should solve the problems that charities focus on.
It doesn't matter how generous they are; what we need is a system that eliminates the need for charity. capitalism makes charity necessary.
But take a minute to think; these people aren't behaving in a capitalistic way by redistributing the wealth; they're behaving in a Socialistic way.

Enough of your bullshit; in the other thread I was advocating Socialism because of all the privation caused to people in the 3rd world, yet you claimed it was jealousy.
You're wrong. It's the opposite; it's concern for others. If any system is based on jealousy and selfishness it's capitalism.
I deny because it's not a working system; how you can claim a system which means you only get 6 hours sleep between work and leads to regular crashes is working I don't know, but you make me laugh.
Whatever I may be an expert at; you're claiming that capitalism works when it clearly does not.
If you're talking about the Soviet Union, then I'm gonna point out once again, for the guy who apparently doesn't pay attention to what I type (yet feels the need to respond) or what actually happens under capitalism (yet advocates it) that the Soviet Union was intended to be Communist, but fell short.
Just in case you're paying attention for once; I aint jealous (I personally do quite well out of capitalism, but I recognise that the sytem is fatally flawed. You have to when half the world is starving, hard working people struggle to play the bills and the eco-system is being destroyed - go on, buy yourself a new planet).
The EU is an example of fucked economis... BECAUSE OF CAPITALISM!

So what you're saying here is that the capitalist EU is fucked, but the capitalist U.S.A. is fine, despite the fact that it's also fucked?
You know, in another thread you used a classic point right wing ameri-capitalists use; accusing me of wanting to be chief thinker (the liberal elite fable).
I think we're just gonna have to agree to disagree; you make false claims of what I say and what I am and remain categorically unmoved by the failings of capitalism.
In short; I give up on you.

 

[vodkazvictim]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/484386_603634669665924_1220948499_n.jpg

 

[assari]

 

[bobjustbob]

By all practices communists they want to limit growth, and are clearly against the individual. If the collective can't grow then they don't want anyone else to grow. Oh, wait. The will allow the individual to grow as long as the others that do nothing whatsoever related to the growth get their cut. They seriously believe that the fry boy at the local bbq deserves to get a piece of Microsoft money. They also believe that the same fry boy should get a cut of the bbq that's doing more business than the one he is working at. My brother and neighbor make more money than me. They will help me with tough times. They are not obligated to support my lifestyle as the communist model suggests.

It's a limitless greed thing on the part of the masses in communism. I buy a house and everyone deserves a house. I buy a new car and everyone deserves a new car. I buy a boat and everyone deserves a boat. With communism you have to wait for someone to give you a boat. In the capitalist society you go out and get your own boat.