Cheating While Engaged...

If I was the person who had been cheated on, then I would of expressed my disappointment in them and tried to make them feel as guilty as I can. This would make them understand the trust that was broken, the value of commitment and it's level required in marriage and then make them understand my emotions upon hearing of this. Because cheating while engaged is a very irresponsible thing to do, I'd make the cheater realize what kind of an asshole they have been and that they are not ready for this level of commitment. Then by the end of this they should realize that they're not fit for marriage, then they should initiate the break up, rather than me. This shows that I'm ready for marriage and I'm committed for it and it's them that's putting this relationship at a halt.
If they decide to stay, then I'd tell them I'm gonna cheat on them in return (Which i shall not do) and see the reaction. If after that they decide to stay, the marriage is still on because they know they've done wrong and they're willing to amend their mistakes, which should prevent this from happening again. A person who cheats after this, isn't fit for marriage..so the marriage is off after that.
 
good excuse an i believed they would never do it again an they didnt once say it was an accident when explainin cos that pisses me off then maybe i would
 
If she cheated on me on the night of her bachelorette party...I'd think that there had to be a hell of a reason for it or maybe she just had to...

I guess I would always listen to the girl of my dreams before I reacted. I hope that by the time I marry I'll have had my fill of casual sex and I'll be into a lifelong partnership.

I think it's worse to be with someone who cheats after 1 or 2 years of marriage and works hard to keep it a secret.

A boozy bachelorette one-nighter is more comical then catastrophic. I'd never talk to my ex-buddy though. Your buddies have to know your girl is off limits at all times.

P.S. If my girl has great tits...hell...I'M NOT LEAVING THOSE THINGS!!!!!
 
[1/2] I'm no expert (although we could use more info) ...

I'm no expert, so take this with a grain of salt. I've also been married for a long time, so I'm long removed from new relationships and trust that has yet to be established.

Recently, I'd noticed that maybe we were driffting a little bit apart and I wanted to take the time off from the holidays to talk about it, spend some cool quality time together and work it out, because I love her to death and if there had to be changes on anyone's part I wanted to make sure to make those changes because I don't want t lose her.
This is good, it's always good to make time for her. Nothing can go wrong when you do, as long as you don't have expectations on what may come of it.

Well about one week 1/2 ago she went to this school party to celebrate with her classmates. At midnight she called this guy and went to his house. She got home at 5am.
Okay, that was just a bad move on her part, why? Just how it looks. It's not that she was wrong, unethical or anything else, just inconsiderate of how it looks, and how it could make you worry.

I stayed up until 3am waiting for her really nervous and super worried. She doesn't have a cellphone and I didn't have the number to reach her at. I even gave her money so she could grab a cab.
Did you tell her you trusted her before she left? Or in what way did she leave you then? The key is that you can't flop on what you say, you have to stick with the same view before and after. As such, I'm kinda confused here (not enough info), so please explain this part further (again, not enough info).

Anyhow, the next morning she woke me up to tell me. I freaked, I lost it. I felt super betrayed. She said she did not kiss him fuck him or anything like that. They talked about their feelings for each other and how weird that was.
Again, what did you think when she left to talk to that guy in the first place? What did you tell her? Did you trust her? Did you say it was a bad idea? How did you leave it before she left for his house? And what did you say afterwards? And the next day.

Consistency and honesty is what builds relationships, and if you say one thing, then flop to another later, she can't entrust her feelings to you. Now if you told her you didn't want her to go, but let her go telling her it will adversely affect you, now that's another thing. She should have realized it was going to negatively impact you, and there was no way around that if she left.

She said I didn't deserve that and she came back home.
But why did she leave in the first place? Why did she have to be with him to realize that? I'm not saying she's wrong or right, but I'm trying (as you're probably also grasping too), what she was thinking? It's not about what she did, but what she will do in the future in the same situation.

Relationships aren't built on what happened in the past, they are built on what you can entrust the other with the in future. That past defines that, but harping on the past without looking at it from that angle is just hurt, not help.

I spent the holidays completely alone. I was in no mood to go see my family and bring everyone down. I also didn't go to her parents' place eventhough they still invited me and told me to hang in there.
Okay, hold on. If you told her parents, that was your first mistake. You never, ever include your or her family in your relationship and any troubles. I can tell you the #1 thing that hurts relationships, especially marriages, is taking anything, and I mean anything, outside the family.**

Now if she did it, and not you, then you need to tell her it's best for her to keep things private. It's not merely for your protection, but hers as well, emotionally. The less people know, the less gossip, the less misinformation, the less confusion, the easier it is to work things out.

** NOTE: Now I hope no one else who likes to pick on me tries to say I'm saying you don't share spousal abuse with others and whatnot. That would more argumentative bullshit. That's not what I'm talking about here, I'm talking about general disagreements, attitudes, issues of distrust, etc... that you work out on your own that is not a criminal act. ;)

Tonight she called me to tell me she missed me a lot and might come back home tomorrow. I asked her if she had thought about the situation and if she would focus on us. All last week I pleaded to her to stay and work things out.
I'm confused, she left? Did she not want to deal with it? Why? Did you accuse her and not believe her? Did you worry about your future and how you could trust her? Did she not given an adequate answer on why she left? Or somehow convince you she wouldn't leave in the future?

Understand your focus should be on why she left in the first place. Is it something you said? She didn't consider? Combination? I know it's hard not to be emotional, but what matters is what she would do in the future, to avoid this issue for both of you?

Again, you're not giving us a lot of key details here to help you.

I could have said fuck you I deserve MUCH better than this but I don't want to push her away. She said she's thinking of moving to her folks' place for a few months to think things through. Folks in your opinion should I go along for this shit ride? I've been there before and in my opinion if she leaves I think it's the beginning of the end. I don't eat or sleep anymore. I'm not productive at work either. So anyhow tonight she said if the problem was just her and I it would be easier to focus, I asked her if he's still on her mind, she said yeah and doesn't understand because she doesn't know him, not physically attracted to him and said she loves me to death. I'm so confused right now.
I think it's important for you two to stay together, period. That means having to deal with each other. And if that means finding you two cannot be civil and without an emotional roller coaster ride, then that's maybe what you need to find out.

Because if you can stay together and be together, it's a good sign you can work anything out. I think you need to shunt both of your parents out of everything. I know it's so easy to go to your parents and ask them for advice, comfort, etc..., but another, #1 related thing to a relationship is that she becomes the to-go person, period. You never use your parents "as a backup" anymore, and that goes for her too. It only adds complexity you don't know, and trust me, I've been far more hurt by consulting my parents on many things than if I would have just talked to my wife, on all sorts of things.

Your parents and her parents don't know the values and trust you and she share. They cannot give you advice that works well, other than the advice that it's for you two to work out, and they should have 0 input. I'm serious. Some parents try to butt into relationships way too much, and offer advice. The only good advice a parent can give is to keep your relationship and its issues to yourself (again, barring criminal issues, of course).

I even said to her, be clear Babe, if you want to pursue thins fling with this guy go for it but you will lose me forever, it's your loss.
No, no, no! Dude, ultimatums never work! That are 100 other, better ways to put it, like ...

- "You should know what you want, what you have and what you would be giving up"

- "I will still be here for you if you come back, but understand it won't be the same anymore, as I'll always question"

- "This isn't about right/wrong, this isn't about fair/unfair, this isn't about him/me, it's about what message you send him, me, etc... with your actions, your indecisiveness, your lack of involving me"

And countless other things. You have to get past the hurt, ultimatums, emotions, and get to the bottom of ...

- Why did she go over there (including what you/she said before and after she did)?
- What she expects you to think afterwards?
- Why it went outside of your relationship (parents, etc... and how you're going to avoid that in the future together)?
- What does she want out of the relationship, it should be fairly clear by now, unless she honestly doesn't know?

In most cases, people know, they just can't be honest, and I think she's not being honest with herself, or she's scared to commit, or she thinks she has to "do something" to confirm. That's when people get stupid. They sleep around like it will tell them whether or not "it feels the same" as with you. I seriously doubt she's done that, but she may be stupidly thinking she may have to do something so radical. I don't know.

But the key is, you gotta get to the bottom of it, and the sooner the better, so she doesn't do something stupid. You have to lead by shedding the emotional trail, being hospitable, being responsible, taking control of the conversation, and finding out just where you and she stand. Don't call it "cheating," call it "inconsideration" and a "serious question to how considerate she will be to you in the future" (when she left, then can't account for anything, much less created doubt that was unnecessary).
 
[2/2] I'm no expert (although we could use more info) ...

Then she said she never wants to lose me. I said I simply cannot just be friends.
No, dude, don't do that. Don't ever do that. Relationships are built on being best friends. That's the reality. If you can't break up with someone without having an emotional trail that conflicts with even talking to them, then that's a problem. A problem you have to get past.

It doesn't mean you have to be best friends with her anymore. It doesn't mean you have to be around her regularly. But it means you are honest and forward about what level your friendship is at, what lines she should know she can and cannot cross, etc... If my wife ever divorced me, I don't care what the circumstance is, I will be there if she needs me. But I will be frank about what "messes" I will involve my emotions with (only the fiscal/social ones as required, as a friend).

That's what a real relationship and/or break up is about, not blame, not avoidance, but facing the reality, and being able to tell someone the reality without yelling at them or letting the emotions control your intellect. And that means no ultimatums, no "we're not friends," etc... I'm not saying you are wrong. I'm saying what you're costing yourself, for yourself and your own happiness.

As soon as I learned not to "get hurt," I got hurt less. Didn't mean I was stupid, let people abuse me or my friendship, but it mean that person didn't have to worry if and when they called me when they really needed someone. And, better yet, they knew better than to expected what they wanted, and only knew what to expect in reality.

I need serious opinions on this. I know what I did on my part for losing her a bit,
Actually, we could use a lot more info.

I got boring and we never saw each other but if she's thinking of another guy I think I've already lost.
"Boring" is the word that people use all-too-often. People can be as "boring" or as "exciting" as the other thinks they are. I'm "boring" to many women, trust me. Degreed engineer (not exactly a hot one for parties), jobs my wife can't explain to anyone (she's tried every time to every one), etc... I'm sure people tell her I'm boring regularly.

People told me my wife was a mistake, my parents included. You know what? She's the most exciting woman on the planet, and I mean out of the bedroom too. Yeah, I'm sure if we didn't have sex, that might not be good, but we could work through it with talking or counseling. Our relationship is built on our best friendship, and that is build on seeing the excitement of and for each other. It's so complementary, I can't describe it, but it's there, and we both see it.

So remove the "boring" from the argument.

As far as her thinking about another guy, talk to her about it. It's not about "fair" or "right" or whatever. It's about talking to discover her emotions. The second you start "judging" her, you're setting her up to "close up." You should let her judge herself, for herself. You never know what you might find out.

For example, you might find out she actually wants an "open relationship." I'm assuming you don't. But if you sit there and don't judge and let her open up, you might just find that eventually comes out. And then you will know what she is like and what she is sharing. If you judge her or look at things as "cheating" or put things in "ultimatums," guess what? She's going to "modify" her answer to fit. And then you'll find out only later, or she'll just go on living her life like she doesn't want.

Or maybe, just maybe, she'll realize that you're there for her. And that you know what that breeds? Complementary consideration. The next time she gets selfish, guess what? She'll wonder how it's going to affect you, because you're worried about how it affects her too.

Every moment I'm home I can't wait to see her, I miss her terribly but I won't tell her that.
No, dammit, tell her exactly that!

But also tell her that it hurts to think she's not being honest with you. Why couldn't she talk it out with you before she went over to his house? Why couldn't she discover what she felt by talking to you, instead of going over there? Why can't she realize it's not about you not trusting her, it's about you worry she won't be honest with you?

That's what this is about. Being honest. If you feel one way, but can't say it, you've already fucked up the relationship. Heck, point that out. That you wanted to hold it back, but you realize you have to be honest. But you're not going to be the only one. She's expected to be able to share anything and everything with you and you first, and not run to another guy's house for some inconsiderate session, or involve her parents (unless you are abusing her, obviously, etc...).

I'm taking a step back and trying to be cool. She said no one would ever do what I'm doing for her, she calls me a jewel, a pearl (she's the pearl IMO). I then said what happens if you pursue this with this dickhead and then you do the same to him? I mean Goddamnit don't I deserve a better opportunity and chance at making this work?
I know this is going to seem like I'm an asshole, but if you're saying that, you're missing the reality. Relationships aren't about what you "deserve," they are about what you and she are willing to agree on.

Right now you can't trust her to even be honest with you, and you first and foremost before talking to anyone else. That's a problem she needs to help you solve. But you're not going to solve it with withholding X, expecting Y, etc... You have got to get off the "deserve" aspect, and look at the "reality" and "honesty" aspects. You then need to share that with her.

Don't drop into the emotion about all you love her too much going the other way though. The last thing you want to do is that, then having some emotional make-up sex, and you don't address it. You want to put it out, do it as unemotional as you can, but in a caring, considerate way, and make her feel at home with your ear. It's very, very important you do that. Trust me, I have to fight myself from getting "pissed off" sometimes when my wife is inconsiderate as fuck, because sometimes I realize she honestly didn't realize how inconsiderate it was. And it goes the other way too.

Relationships aren't about boring or lack of spice. Sure, there is the fact that someone doesn't think of another enough, and that is bad. But it's about not using any excuse for not being honest, not being forward, not sharing any and all emotions and views with your significant other first and foremost, and often exclusively. It's obvious she's fucking that part up with this guy, her parents -- possibly you too with your parents, or even hers. They should know 0, other than the fact that you're not beating or verbally abusing her.

She says I'm the most intelligent person she's ever know, I make her laugh like no one and she sees evrything I'm doing as a positive. Also, all of her friends and family all have different opinions on it so that doesn't help.
Get them the fuck out of it -- honestly, do not share another word, and that goes for her too. Not with your parents, not with hers. They will only fuck it up far worse. There are only 2 opinions that matter here, yours and hers, period. Everyone else should be "cut out of the loop."

If anyone says anything, just tell them, "I finally realized it's best if I don't share my thoughts or emotions with anyone but her, because it's only her views or reactions that really matter." And say it with a smile. You might just get a nod from her grandparents too (if they've been together a long time).

Tonight she even said every time we speak it helps her put things in perspective. In no way do I want to trick her into staying with me, I will not and cannot manipulate her. I respect and love her.
Honesty is what matters. Honestly. ;)

I'm fucked.
If you think so, then you are. But realize you're fucking yourself in how you handle it, it doesn't matter what she does, only how it affects you and what you decide to do about it.

Awaiting help here.
Thanks everyone. LadyLove I think I need your help here.\
MM
Well, I'm no expert.
 
What really matters?

You know what really matters should my wife leave me tomorrow? Not whether I was right or wrong. Not whether it was her fault or mine. Not anything related to any perception or guilt or issue.

What matters is what I did to help her transition, or not transition, to a life without me. That's it. It's about my friendship with her. It's about how I react to her emotions and values and complaints and issues.

That starts with how things affect me emotionally. Things hurt, especially truth. Inconsideration and selfishness really hurt when exposed. Pride is a real issue for people, myself included. I have to put those things aside, and judgment is never anything that enters my mind (or at least it can't be if it tries to).

Many of you here have seen me "brag" about my sex life with my wife. Guess what? Do you really think I'm "bragging"? It's about the wonderful life I have, and I wish others could have. Guess what? It could come crashing down tomorrow. We could change from being compatible to incompatible, God knows she's not the same women I married, she's changed, I've changed, and I've been lucky it has been compatible.

So if and when she leaves me, will I be missing all the BJs, tit-fucks and what not? The reality of what I will or will not worry about will be whether or not I actually took care to care about her emotions and help her transition to a life without me, or not. That I took every step to ensure she was happy with me, or not. And the fact that I made no demand, stated no ultimatum, or otherwise pressured her into changing her views or considerations, and only shared my views, considerations and how they effect me, and how I could or could not let them affect me.

I have to deal with the situation my wife may walk away from me some day. I can't tell her what to do in that case. I can't even judge her for what she may do, what role, involvement or blame some people will say she has or possibly holds whole with none over myself. I can only try to be her friend in that case, but be honest, be there for her, but not a door mat at the same time. I can only change how it affects me, and I have to let her go knowing I did my part as a husband to keep it going, and keep my end of the bargain to care for her, better or worse, in whatever capacity she would like, but is realistic for both of us.

That is where you find happiness, whether you have the opportunity to share it with one person for the rest of your life, or it takes several. There is no score. There is not absolute set of values. It's about compatible values and considerations, and they often change over a life. People who want to judgment are seeking excuses for their own shortcomings, or the answers to issues they are looking at in the wrong way for themselves, much less others.

I know I utterly confuse people here with my various views on these points and others, when I post my views and my attitudes. I'm sure others just want to hate me for what they think is a false personality. I'm not perfect. I don't always approach my life to every detail I say I do. But when my poor decisions and inconsiderations lead me to an argument with my wife, I don't point the finger at her, or try to make some justification out of some judgment or excuse, I point it right at myself. That's what keeps me from doing things that would hurt her in the first place. That's just what works for me, period.

Because if I wasn't responsible for what I do and how things affect me, I'd drag a lot of other people down with me.
 
Don't call it "cheating," call it "inconsideration"

Inconsideration is if she forgets to tell you your best friend called.
Cheating is if she's fucking him.
The two are starkly different.
If she's cheating then call it like it is. There's no good reason to candy coat it.
 
Wtf?

Inconsideration is if she forgets to tell you your best friend called.
Cheating is if she's fucking him.
The two are starkly different.
If she's cheating then call it like it is. There's no good reason to candy coat it.
Then what to you call going to visit another man to talk?
Or is it only "fucking" v. "your friend called" and nothing in-between (confused?).

Such emotionally-driven attitudes are not a solution.
If one wants to get upset and lash out, understand what that creates.

A no-win situation.

It's much easier to "walk away" from someone when you point out, calmly, you're not willing to deal with inconsiderations.
Because at some point, you don't think they are thinking of you, so you can't even trust they are telling the truth about what they did.

Because they weren't thinking of you when they left, so why would they be when they are with another man.
See my point? Labeling, accusations, etc... don't do anything but make absolutist attitudes.

It's much easier to show someone they are wrong, and why you are staying with them, by putting it forth what their actions send (regardless of what they did, or say they did).
 
He's done everything he can ...

You'll find that, along with subsequent developments, here:
http://board.freeones.com/showthread.php?t=180802
He's done everything he can at this point based on what he's said.
It's time to let her go, leaving the door open with an "open letter" of what she has to choose to be in the relationship again.
http://board.freeones.com/showthread.php?p=1863972

It's no longer about who deserves what, what has been lost, it's only about going forward. Hell, who knows, maybe a hotter, more thoughtful babe will be in his future, and that new house will be filled with joy, love and lovemaking that totally makes him forget her. Who knows. She has a choice to make, to either be with him as he needs, or not.
 
Exactly, I basically only date promiscuous women who like to fuck random guys. I doubt monogamous people would care much for my polyamorous lifestyle. I think you and I, ANH, lack that one thing that ruins so many people's enjoyment of a healthy open sex life: jealousy. It's a great thing to be rid of.

Dude I dont thinks its the jealousy I lack, I think im just a fuckin pervert LOL cant speak for you but I just love hot slutty girls, and when I see a gorgeous chicks thats nasty and likes to have fun, Ill call her a slut as a compliment. My friend's gf is so fuckin hot, hotter than most pornstars, and always gives us head when we watch the games and stuff, and he just loves how dirty she is. I wanna gf like that im very jealous! LOL
 
Disregard ...

It sounded to me like you were equivocating about what constitutes cheating.
If that wasn't the case then I can understand why you'd feel confused.
Oh, disregard then ...
 
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