Capitalism: A Love Story

[~~whimsy~~]

What the hell is Michael Moore so pissed off about?

His new movie as he says, "It's a crime story, but it's also a war story-- about class warfare. And a vampire movie, with the upper 1 percent feeding off of the rest of us. And, of course, it's also a love story. Only it's about an abusive relationship.

What is with this guy? He is like the white Spike Lee! Always pissed off about something...

Anyhoo, your thoughts on this new film?

 

[E-Ann-Hilden]

Have you seen "Roger & Me" ? You will get the drift....

 

[Will E Worm]

What the hell is Michael Moore so pissed off about?

He ate enough food at supper to feed three people and he wanted more.

Have you seen the video where he is shoveling food into his mouth?



:throwup:

 

[camplo72]

He ate enough food at supper to feed three people and he wanted more.

Have you seen the video where he is shoveling food into his mouth?



yeah that was gross

 

[DetroitRocker36]

Michael Moore is pissed because he is stupid. Stupid people are always pissed about something.

 

[ninetysixcavy]

Doesn't America have the highest business tax in the world? I agree that things are out of wack in many ways, but capitalism is the best system. MM is just a publicity whore who has a boat load of money. I wonder, if he wants 70% plus or more of his taxes to go to crooks in Washington, does he put his money where his mouth is, or is he a phony? The jury is still out...

 

[georges]

michael moore is fat stinky pig and a liar. He is a disgrace for America.

 

[Shindekudasai]

Michael Moore is pissed because he is stupid. Stupid people are always pissed about something.

That would make about 80% of Americans borderline retarded. Most Americans I met or talked to (be it online or on the phone or in real life) were always pissed about something or hating and nagging and loathing...

The fact alone, that he manages to stir this much hate, shows very clearly, that most of the values and believes in the US today are either crooked or mirror only half the truth.
I mean, look at the arguments here. Only one user has tried to give a serious response. Most of the others immediately started to attack Moore on a personal level. What do his "obesity" or the way he eats have to do with his (professional) opinion on capitalism?
But that's also America, right? Or at least with some Americans... If you don't have an informed opinion, you just replace it by stereotypes, hate and insults. Shallowness before depth, profanity before profundity. Very sad.

You can think of capitalism what you want, but it isn't all good. It's not satan either, but that's the case with almost everything. There is no "black and white" here.
There are many forms of capitalism and being against any form of capitalism doesn't mean being against money (which you almost equate with god) or barter. Money and barter are just means of trade and trust in trade. What's made out of them depends on the form of capitalism being in place.

So, before bashing Moore's newest movie/project, I'd like to watch it for myself and decide whether he's blowing it out of proportion, posing the wrong arguments, confusing America's (pretty ugly) form of capitalism with capitalism in general etc.

 

[ninetysixcavy]

Michael Morre's SICKO - Refuted

 

[gunslingingbird]

He's just a fat fuck anti-establishment shit stain with an agenda. When he made his Farcenheit 911 he was attacking Bush and his administration, but he also admitted that it didn't matter to him who was president, he would attack them anyway. He's a left-wing radical who won't be happy until he sees the stars in the Stars & Stripes replaced with a hammer and sickle.


:ban:

 

[BlueBalls]

"It's a crime story, but it's also a war story-- about class warfare. And a vampire movie, with the upper 1 percent feeding off of the rest of us. And, of course, it's also a love story. Only it's about an abusive relationship.

Although I would bet that this quote if posted in the conspiracy thread without Moore's name attached would probably gain a different response. Similar statements have been been aired there already. So I guess that when Moore's name is attached to anything it's automatically wrong just because he is saying them.

Now, he's not my favorite documentary filmmaker, but what makes his view any different from anyone else? You may not agree with them, but they're valid none the less. And you need people like him and his counter part on the opposite side of the political spectrum (I have no idea who that is, Rush Limbaugh maybe) to air their views; because otherwise what do you have?

If they're wrong and the claims that they make can be proven wrong then by all means put them in their place. But at least hear them before you dismiss them completely just because you have a grudge against a certain individual.

 

[Ace Boobtoucher]

He's not a true documentarian. His movies always have a subjective view and are edited to suit his perspective.

The movie "Roger and Me" for instance started with the premise that he wanted to interview the president of GM but kept getting turned away. But he met with Roger Smith several times off camera before filming to discuss what could and could not be talked about on camera.

Same thing with "Bowling for Columbine" which I think was pure propaganda. He made it seem like Charlton Heston came to Colorado shortly after the shootings to defend the shooters right to bear arms, when he made appearances there well before the massacre took place.

Just name one of his "documentaries" and no doubt you'll find sketchy editing and ambush interviews that are designed to make people who don't agree with him seem foolish or hypocritical.

I'd never pay admission to see anything he's ever done and I hope more people do the same.

 

[historylover]

Capitalism, just like any other sterile system, i.e. communism, health care, manufacturing, needs a trial. Every 20 or so years, just like government, because progress in systems such as come at knife point.

As for Mr. Moore, he's simply Rush-of-the-Left. I found every one of his films interesting. I disliked Fahrenheit 911 for its exploitative nature, but Bowling for Columbine intriguing for probably the same reason. I've said this before and I'll continually repeat it: all ideas/paradigms in cinema become "bad" when they go against the narrative need. Ideas are exploitable far more than people.

 

[Friday on my mind]

I have not seen Bowling for Columbine so really don't feel able to say what I thought of it.IMO it was not about as important an issue as most of his other films anyway.

But lets take the others.

Roger and me-He was criticizing the execs and CEO specifically of GM for living a lavish lifestyle,still paying themselves millions more all the time while decimating communities with plants closings and layoffs.Hard to say he was wrong IMO.

Fahrenheit 911- Critical of the war in Iraq.Whether you like or agree with all the points he made I think most now agree the war was big mistake.Maybe not all will, but then again some think Vietnam was good idea.

Sicko- We all know the american system is in trouble cost wise and does not serve some americans very well.Something must be done and no one can "refute" that.


I have not heard much about this new one on capitalism but he is dead on when he says there is class warfare going on in america.Since the early 70s real wages for majority of americans have declined while for the ones at the top they have exploded and wealth has been more and more concentrated in thier favor.At the same time they were given huge tax decreases.

There is a concept called the "common good" which is not strictly american but is suppose to be one of the core principals we operate under.If we allow it america will become a country(maybe already is) of a very few who see their standard of living increase and the rest of us who see everything going up while wages do not keep pace.IMO it's nuts to talk about how people no matter what their incomes should pay the same % in taxes (flat tax) and call that fair.You make 10k a year paying 20% (2k) is going to really curtail your living standard and ability to live.While if you make 100k that 20 grand you pay still will leave you more than enough to survive on.It is and always has been seen as very fair and very american to have progressive tax system based on ability to pay where those with more paid more.

Does anyone really believe that some CEO making hundreds of millions is really deserving of such a difference in pay than the workers in his company.Bad enough that is tolerated at least we ought to be able to get them to pay more in tax.The truth is now people in the higher incomes ranges actually pay a lower percentage on many taxes then just the average person(the social security tax as an example).

If thats the kind of thing Moore's new movie is about then more power to him.Nobody wants an end to capitalism ,we just want some balance and the notion of the "common good" restored.

 

[CunningStunts]

He has some points, but mostly they are about life being "unfair." Well, it doesn't take a freakin genius to figure that out! And it take no talent or insight to criticize things that are wrong in the world. The real thinking come in the question, "So what do you do about it?" His answer is some kind of modified Marxism/socialism. I disagree, as does history.

 

[ninetysixcavy]

I have not seen Bowling for Columbine so really don't feel able to say what I thought of it.IMO it was not about as important an issue as most of his other films anyway.

But lets take the others.

Roger and me-He was criticizing the execs and CEO specifically of GM for living a lavish lifestyle,still paying themselves millions more all the time while decimating communities with plants closings and layoffs.Hard to say he was wrong IMO.

Fahrenheit 911- Critical of the war in Iraq.Whether you like or agree with all the points he made I think most now agree the war was big mistake.Maybe not all will, but then again some think Vietnam was good idea.

Sicko- We all know the american system is in trouble cost wise and does not serve some americans very well.Something must be done and no one can "refute" that.


I have not heard much about this new one on capitalism but he is dead on when he says there is class warfare going on in america.Since the early 70s real wages for majority of americans have declined while for the ones at the top they have exploded and wealth has been more and more concentrated in thier favor.At the same time they were given huge tax decreases.

There is a concept called the "common good" which is not strictly american but is suppose to be one of the core principals we operate under.If we allow it america will become a country(maybe already is) of a very few who see their standard of living increase and the rest of us who see everything going up while wages do not keep pace.IMO it's nuts to talk about how people no matter what their incomes should pay the same % in taxes (flat tax) and call that fair.You make 10k a year paying 20% (2k) is going to really curtail your living standard and ability to live.While if you make 100k that 20 grand you pay still will leave you more than enough to survive on.It is and always has been seen as very fair and very american to have progressive tax system based on ability to pay where those with more paid more.

Does anyone really believe that some CEO making hundreds of millions is really deserving of such a difference in pay than the workers in his company.Bad enough that is tolerated at least we ought to be able to get them to pay more in tax.The truth is now people in the higher incomes ranges actually pay a lower percentage on many taxes then just the average person(the social security tax as an example).

If thats the kind of thing Moore's new movie is about then more power to him.Nobody wants an end to capitalism ,we just want some balance and the notion of the "common good" restored.

Bowling for Columbine was a bullshit propaganda piece designed to banish guns in America. Maybe a decent point or two made in the film, but obviously it was a documentary to eliminate guns in America. Just an FYI. :thumbsup:

 

[mrtrebus]

Moore is a flawed but important polemical documentary film maker.

 

[mrtrebus]

Maybe a decent point or two made in the film, but obviously it was a documentary to eliminate guns in America.

Duh, yeah! Thats bloody obvious. :dunno:

 

[~~whimsy~~]

The quote I quoted is from Entertainment Weekly in their Fall movie special. It caught my eye when I read the title of his film.

People get upset about this because in a whole many do not like having some one who is born and raised in a country, this case America, and then turn around and spit on the very country and establishment within the country that gives him all this money when he makes a film. He just working against the grain. Sure, some can say [or think], the fact we are talking about him is just encouraging him to go further with his career. Not really, now if we all went and paid to see his movie and then discuss it, yeah that encourages.

That is what makes this country great! He is able to make this film, as a result, people have a choice to go and see them or not. In fact, given the results of his past films, they have the right to rebuttal and show incorrect information and refute what is said in his film! We are not in a Soviet era where we are forced to go see these films and forced to uphold what they tell us. So there is something to be grateful for.

We have a choice to watch this film or not. This is merely discussion about what people think about the film. See his past films have been inaccurate in many ways and serve only to push his agenda. We know this, we have read the rebuttals and ultimately understand commonsense methods.

 

[mrtrebus]

People get upset about this because in a whole many do not like having some one who is born and raised in a country, this case America, and then turn around and spit on the very country and establishment within the country that gives him all this money when he makes a film.

Well those people are idiots! He is not spitting on the country & establishment, but attacking those things he thinks are wrong with his country.
Should someone ignore the flaws & failings of their own country, or are they such a passionate supporter of the ideal, the very best that their country aspires to, that they what to highlight & help to eradicate the flaws of their country?