Can Chrysler be saved by a private equity fund?

[georges]

Cadillac was always a dominant leader in the luxury market. Cadillac still beats mercedes and bmw in terms of quality (just view the link I enclosed) http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v257/georges2/caddyquality4.jpg. I don't know if mopar will survive but Chrysler of today is not Chrysler of yesterday. Chrysler will have to make popular vvehicles as it did in the past.

 

[AFA]

Cadillac was always a dominant leader in the luxury market. Cadillac still beats mercedes and bmw in terms of quality (just view the link I enclosed) http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v257/georges2/caddyquality4.jpg. I don't know if mopar will survive but Chrysler of today is not Chrysler of yesterday. Chrysler will have to make popular vvehicles as it did in the past.

Cadillac has the same issues with plastic chrome trim peeling as other GM cars, over styling with highlights highlighting highlights, and poor fuel economy.

I think the big 3 in the US are all suffering the same fate now. They had all the ablity to design some incredible vehicles in the 21st century, but continued to base everything on "style", with few new improvements. People bought what they sold every year with superficial and cosmetic changes, a pure marketing strategy imho. But I just can't buy into all this flag waving and country music. The cars are not substantial enough in my opinion for me to join the church of the big 3.


There used to be a Volvo commercial on TV when someone says, "I've owned 10 of these cars. If it wasn't such a great car why would I buy so many of them"? Donald Sutherland was the voice of Volvo who then suggests that if the logic of this commercial escapes you, you might consider something more durable, like the Volvo model ____.

 

[Member2019]

The problem ...

Take all the benefits and health care clauses out and raise the wages instead. And let the worker get his/her own retirement and health care plans.

While I 100% agree with you in principle, the problem is that the US federal government penalizes for doing such.

If there is one thing I like about the Republicans and absolutely hate about the Democrats (especially Hillary) -- remember, I'm a Libertarian, neither Democrat or Republican --
the Republicans have put the new option for a pre-tax benefit for getting your own insurance and retirement outside of your employer and the Democrats have blocked it until it was removed from whatever bill (budget, tax changes/reforms, etc...).
Hillary, in 1993, even wanted to take away the pre-tax benefit for employer-based health deductions to pay for nationalized healthcare for those without it.
Can you say stupid?!?!?!
I mean, if you start penalizing people for getting their own healthcare to pay for those who don't, what did she think would happen overnight?!?!?!
I would argue that that gross incompetence was one of the two major reasons the Republicans swept Congress in 1994.

My favorite movie was JohnQ -- because the man lost the coverage on his child because his employer changed his insurance without his approval!
It was not a "pro-socialist healthcare" but it was an anti-employer healthcare message -- which is basically "extortion" sometimes.
I mean, I personally know people who won't quit their jobs because of the healthcare they have for their kids and their managers exploit this.

And as for job security? People get fired all the time - live with it; it's life.

Agreed!

Want a guaranteed job? Try Cuba. They are still communist, I believe.

Man, you're hitting on all cylinders!

Or start your own business.

Way ahead of you partner!

Otherwise, when you work for someone else, they can always fire you - and should be able to as soon as it is financially advantageous to the company to do so.
It's harsh. But so is life.

Damn, this is probably the post I 100% agree with you the absolute most -- EVER!

glad to know that you don't have to work for a living. cya in the unemployment line.

Well I do, so I agree 100% with McRocket.
I "work for a living," as does my wife, and we do quite well because we take control of our destiny, NOT our employer(s).

 

[E-Ann-Hilden]

One out of six jobs are dependable to automobiles industry.

If Detroit goes, so goes America !

Japan, Germany, S.Korea are making cars in China and exporting to the world.
So it is just matter of time Japan will import cars from China to United States.

"Only Chevrolet, Cadillac remain." ??? How many N.American and the rest of the world are willing to buy Cadillac. Do you know Cardillac does not even make right side driver seat and how can Cadillac sells its cars ?

The Big 3 are ahead on this They already import engines for Chevy and Pontiac SUV's. Chrysler has a agreement with Chery Automotive in China to import compact cars to the U.S..

Honda, Hyundai, Nissan, Subaru and Toyota are committed to building cars for the U.S. market by building plants in the U.S.. The investment is large, so I doubt we will see a Honda built in China imported to the U.S.. Honda is buliding a new plant in Indiana and Toyota just partnered with Subaru to build Toyotas in Indiana as well. GM is the largest investor in the Chinese market, not the Japanese. Buick are built there for the Chinese market.

Here is a note from Honda on their investment in the U.S..

http://corporate.honda.com/press/article.aspx?id=200704023919

Honda supports America by building plants here and employing American's!

 

[E-Ann-Hilden]

Re: Honda's historgram is dilluting their recent QA issues ...

I personally know some of the engineers at several auto manufacturers, including Honda and Toyota.
I'm fairly familiar with the parts/assembly breakdown of many models, including the breakdown that doesn't go on the sticker.

Lexus is Toyota, and most of the parts are the same. Largely due to select models based on longer-term historical data.

Most Toyota's for the American market are built here. Lexus except for the RX are built in Japan. There is some difference in parts suppliers depending on the market.

Their more recent model redesigns of the last 3 years have not been showing their historical average.Toyota is quickly moving up in that regard.

The Japanese change model designs much quicker that the Big 3. It averages about every 3-4 years for a totally new model to be developed and released. The Big 3 lag in this time frame. GM still uses 3.8 pushrod engines that date from the 70's in Buicks and Pontiacs as well as older 4 speed automatics. The H-body used on the Buick Lucerne and W-body used in the Chevrolet Impala dates from the 80's. Honda usual develops a totally new platform when introducing new cars, not a redesign of an older one. This is a big reason that the Big 3 have improved on quality using proven older platforms, transmissions and engines.

Yes, largely based on historical data.
It's hard to show reliability without a model being out a few years.
Some of the latest models (2004+) from Honda have been slacking.

I am very familiar with this study, as well as several other international and American organizations (which are fair, and they rank Toyota and Honda above US manufacturers).

Accord is still a very solid design, largely because it's still American and Japanese assembled and parts-based.
Civic depends on the model, but the classic Sedan is also solid.

The USDM Accord / TL is built in Ohio and is not assembled in Japan. They have different models for each market; European and JDM. These are not imported to the U.S. except for the European TSX for Acura. The USDM Civic is built in Canada and The U.S. and soley for the American Market. Most engines except for the K20Z3 are built here as well.

Their "Fit" is starting to give them a "Fit" though -- the "best budget car" is debated by may.
The CRV has also dropped drastically in quality, while the Toyota Rav4 has basically "changed places" with it.

I'm not interested in Consumer Reports views and surveys.
Most engineers ignore them.

I agree on Consumer Reports, but the American car buying consumer does pay attention to their studies.

Honda still doesn't have a solid Hybrid design.Toyota does, and is the leader by a wide margin over anyone.

One of the big issues with Honda is not their Hybrid design, but preception, Americans want a hybrid that does not look like another car. Honda's Hybrid does not look much different than a base Accord or Civic. Toyota scored a big market share with the Prisus, since it is a unique exterior design, Toyota knows this and will continue this trend. Honda sells more hybrids than anyone except Toyota. The Hybrid Civic outsells the Hybrid Camry. Honda will be first on the U.S. market with a Hydrogen powered design, that might change Toyota dominance.
http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/list/top10/116743/article.html
http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/reviews/healey/2007-05-18-test-drive-fcx_N.htm

Honda is riding their histogram, and that is changing.
A lot of that has to do with outsourcing select components to China.[/QUOTE]

All automotive suppliers are using Chinese supplied parts, not just Honda.
"Yazaki is a valued supplier to virtually every major auto manufacturer in the world. Our outstanding quality has been recognized by DaimlerChrysler, GM, Honda, Toyota and numerous other OEMs for areas from product delivery to finance" I know they make wiring harness for many OEM's in China and Mexico. By your quote all automakers will suffer in quality, since they use Chinese made parts.

 

[McRocket]

Honda supports America by building plants here and employing American's!

You sure seem to know allot about them. And also seem to type allot about them in a very positive note.

Which is fine of course.

But it leads me to guess that you either a) work for Honda, b) care about someone who does and/or c) are a big fan of Honda's.

 

[E-Ann-Hilden]

You sure seem to know allot about them. And also seem to type allot about them in a very positive note.

Which is fine of course.

But it leads me to guess that you either a) work for Honda, b) care about someone who does and/or c) are a big fan of Honda's.

I grew in Detroit, my grandfather, my mother and 3 of my family members all worked for Chrysler at one time or another. I have a big passion for Automobiles, all types and brands!

I am just very dishearten that the Big 3 have strayed so far for being trend setting and World Class automotive manufacturers. With the exception of Chevy Corvettes, none of the Big 3 have taken the lead in developing class leading designs and technology. Cadillac has responded pretty well with the XLR, CTS, SRX and STS, but again these are responses to the competition, not a step ahead of them.

Yes, I am a big Honda fan and have owned 3 Honda/Acuras. I love
Honda/Acura racing in F1, ALMS, Speed World Challege, Grand Am and Moto GP racing. Racing in world class events enhances technology and breeds better car designs that trickle down to production models. Cadillac and Corvette are great examples of that. Does not hurt for advertising either!

Off my soap box... :glugglug:

 

[AFA]

I think the big 3 in the US, never really found their way even before WW2. I can't compare anything they make as more then trying to tap into people's emotions and base sales goals on that. I don't see innovative design at all, simply reselling the same old outdated thing. Even the Saturn which was considered a big step up during it's introduction suffers from this now. I need a lot more than a semi racial arguement against foreign car designs to buy one. :2 cents:

Here, the best reason to buy a Ford, impressive;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qCGL8qK7aE

 

[Member2019]

Re: Honda's historgram is dilluting their recent QA issues ...

Most Toyota's for the American market are built here. Lexus except for the RX are built in Japan. There is some difference in parts suppliers depending on the market.

Yes, I'm not disputing that.
The supplier issues are the main problem, assembly is just the integration, and the sum of those parts.

The USDM Accord / TL is built in Ohio and is not assembled in Japan.

Can you please re-read my statement, because I was not disagreeing ...
Accord is still a very solid design, largely because it's still American and Japanese assembled and parts-based. Civic depends on the model, but the classic Sedan is also solid.

So where did I disagree?
I said "American and Japanese assembled and parts-based.
"Assembled" can mean many things, at many levels, and it's not just "final assembly."
But yes, virtually all "final assembly" of the Accord/Civic for the US market happens in the US, as well as some select parts assembly.

I agree on Consumer Reports, but the American car buying consumer does pay attention to their studies.

Yes, and Honda is still riding their resale value from the '80s and earlier '90s.

One of the big issues with Honda is not their Hybrid design, but preception, Americans want a hybrid that does not look like another car. Honda's Hybrid does not look much different than a base Accord or Civic. Toyota scored a big market share with the Prisus, since it is a unique exterior design, Toyota knows this and will continue this trend. Honda sells more hybrids than anyone except Toyota. The Hybrid Civic outsells the Hybrid Camry.

Americans want a hybrid that doesn't give them 5-7mpg more on the same model, doesn't matter what it looks like.
That's why the Prius went into triple production its first few years, every year, because it actually delivered 45-60mpg!
I don't care about a hybrid that gives me 5-7mpg more, and most Americans don't either -- unless they have money anyway and want to "feel good" about themselves.

I'll buy the Prius instead, and many others agree with me.

Honda will be first on the U.S. market with a Hydrogen powered design, that might change Toyota dominance.

Nope!
Americans will quickly realize hydrogen generation actually causes either more CO2 emissions or is extracted from natural gas.
So when they generate it at home, they will not only see their power bill much higher than if they just got gas at the pump, but they will cause more CO2 to be released in its generation!
Why? Where does the electricity come from for electrolysis?
"Oh, it's the outlet, but it's 'clean electricity'" -- W-T-F?!?!?!

Rant:
I could give a flying fuck about Hydrogen at this point, we have to renovate our power grid, and that's a 25 year endeavor.
But what the fuck do I know, I'm just one of the 300,000 screaming electrical engineers with the IEEE (the world's largest technical organization) that are trying to smack some common sense into the average American.
Right now engineers don't score to high with Americans, since we're the reason why everything is fucked up in their opinion, and they know better than us for the environment too.
At least that's why they fight us and prevent us from actually making things cleaner and better, claiming we're part of "big business" and the problem.

All automotive suppliers are using Chinese supplied parts, not just Honda.
"Yazaki is a valued supplier to virtually every major auto manufacturer in the world. Our outstanding quality has been recognized by DaimlerChrysler, GM, Honda, Toyota and numerous other OEMs for areas from product delivery to finance" I know they make wiring harness for many OEM's in China and Mexico. By your quote all automakers will suffer in quality, since they use Chinese made parts.

Yes, but it all depends how far that goes.
Some use more than others, and it really shows up in the quality based on how much of the component is completed before it exits China.
A wiring harness is fairly automated in construction, but once you start getting into more complicated systems that require partial assembly, it's not good.

 

[Member2019]

I think the big 3 in the US, never really found their way even before WW2. I can't compare anything they make as more then trying to tap into people's emotions and base sales goals on that. I don't see innovative design at all, simply reselling the same old outdated thing. Even the Saturn which was considered a big step up during it's introduction suffers from this now. I need a lot more than a semi racial arguement against foreign car designs to buy one. :2 cents:

Tucker anyone?

Here, the best reason to buy a Ford, impressive;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qCGL8qK7aE

Have to agree, I'm so fucking sick of it as well.

 

[maildude]

The Big 3 are all in trouble. They should take a damned good look at themselves to see why.

 

[McRocket]

Re: Honda's historgram is dilluting their recent QA issues ...

Yes, I'm not disputing that.
The supplier issues are the main problem, assembly is just the integration, and the sum of those parts.

Can you please re-read my statement, because I was not disagreeing ...
Accord is still a very solid design, largely because it's still American and Japanese assembled and parts-based. Civic depends on the model, but the classic Sedan is also solid.

So where did I disagree?
I said "American and Japanese assembled and parts-based.
"Assembled" can mean many things, at many levels, and it's not just "final assembly."
But yes, virtually all "final assembly" of the Accord/Civic for the US market happens in the US, as well as some select parts assembly.

Yes, and Honda is still riding their resale value from the '80s and earlier '90s.

Americans want a hybrid that doesn't give them 5-7mpg more on the same model, doesn't matter what it looks like.
That's why the Prius went into triple production its first few years, every year, because it actually delivered 45-60mpg!
I don't care about a hybrid that gives me 5-7mpg more, and most Americans don't either -- unless they have money anyway and want to "feel good" about themselves.

I'll buy the Prius instead, and many others agree with me.

Nope!
Americans will quickly realize hydrogen generation actually causes either more CO2 emissions or is extracted from natural gas.
So when they generate it at home, they will not only see their power bill much higher than if they just got gas at the pump, but they will cause more CO2 to be released in its generation!
Why? Where does the electricity come from for electrolysis?
"Oh, it's the outlet, but it's 'clean electricity'" -- W-T-F?!?!?!

Rant:
I could give a flying fuck about Hydrogen at this point, we have to renovate our power grid, and that's a 25 year endeavor.
But what the fuck do I know, I'm just one of the 300,000 screaming electrical engineers with the IEEE (the world's largest technical organization) that are trying to smack some common sense into the average American.
Right now engineers don't score to high with Americans, since we're the reason why everything is fucked up in their opinion, and they know better than us for the environment too.
At least that's why they fight us and prevent us from actually making things cleaner and better, claiming we're part of "big business" and the problem.

Yes, but it all depends how far that goes.
Some use more than others, and it really shows up in the quality based on how much of the component is completed before it exits China.
A wiring harness is fairly automated in construction, but once you start getting into more complicated systems that require partial assembly, it's not good.

You have this knack for typing things that most of us already know but you make it sound like none of us possibly could.

Other then your rant (self serving - assuming you really are an engineer); nothing you typed in that post wasen't either something I had known for years (the hydrogen part), completely common sense or unprovable speculation that you tried to state as fact.

Have a nice day.

And btw, I have owned about 30 cars/trucks in my life. All were from the big 3 except a used Austin Mini and a used Mazda pickup.
The Mazda engine was lousy - too slow. The Minii was fun, but a service nightmare.

 

[pathfinder]

I'm surprised Chrysler is doing so bad. I always see Dodge/Chrysler cars on the road. PT Cruisers are all over the place. Dodge Ram trucks.

Same with other US based companies. I can't stand Ford vehicles for the most part but I see them all over the place as well. Not that what I see is any indication of their sales on a national/global scale but I just didn't think things were as bad as they are.